A Realistic View at 2022: Part I

[mvp 78]

A point also needs to be made about the impact of our younger players on the 2021 season, and how that should be viewed as a sign of a brighter future.

 

.793 Age 25 and under

.767 Ages 26-30

.789 Ages 31-35

 

Age Player OPS

24 Devers .890 (Best on team and not yet at prime years)

25 Verdugo .777

26 Dalbec .792

26 Arroyo .769

28 Bogey .863 (Peak of prime in '22)

29 Renfroe .816 & Kike .786 (in peak prime)

 

Pitching:

ERA/OPS Against Age

3.10/.659 25 and under

4.73/.763 26-30

4.18/.761 31-35

 

24 DHern 3.38 (40 IP)

25 Whitlock 1.96 (73)

25 Houck 3.52 (69)

28 Pivetta 4.53 (155)

28 Davis, Rios, Taylor

 

Well, the 25 and under crowd's numbers are heavily skewed by Devers.

[notin]

Would that team beat up on the Yankees farm system team?

 

In a fight or in a baseball game?

[mvp 78]

In a fight or in a baseball game?

 

Both

[Maxbialystock]

Have we lost sight of 2022 again?

 

After the ALDS, I'm thinking Bloom and his boss are looking forward to 2022 because just returning the current team would be a good start as long as Cora is managing.

 

Today the NY Times had an article saying the Sox in the ALDS disproved the adage--one I myself invoke regularly--that good pitching beats good hitting. The Rays had the best ERA in the AL this year and were rested going into the ALDS, but the Sox hitting--after the game 1 shutout--beat them with some real help from Houck, Pivetta, Eovaldi, ERod, Whitlock, et al.

 

So I'm thinking it would be good to return the current lineup of Schwarber, Kike, Devers, Bogey, Verdugo, JDM, Renfroe, Vazquez, and Arroyo (and Iglesias). moonslav can comment on the feasibility of that. Oh, and, hopefully, the "we must have a great defense" craze will go away. The poster child for "hit first, field now and then" has to be Schwarber. He's great for the lineup and actually OK at 1b, that horrible underhand toss notwithstanding. When he did after making the correct toss next time was classic. The crowd loves it, and so did his teammates.

 

The pitching is more complicated. Sale and Eovaldi will of course return. ERod is a question--let him go to free agency or sign him? I see these guys probably returning: Whitlock, Houck, Pivetta, Brasier, Taylor, Sawamura, Robles, and Barnes because of his extension. Bloom has his work cut out for him, but it helps that Cora is his manager.

Edited October 12, 2021 by Maxbialystock

[moonslav59]

Have we lost sight of 2022 again?

 

After the ALDS, I'm thinking Bloom and his boss are looking forward to 2022 because just returning the current team would be a good start as long as Cora is managing.

 

Today the NY Times had an article saying the Sox in the ALDS disproved the adage--one I myself invoke regularly--that good pitching beats good hitting. The Rays had the best ERA in the AL this year and were rested going into the ALDS, but the Sox hitting--after the game 1 shutout--beat them with some real help from Houck, Pivetta, Eovaldi, ERod, Whitlock, et al.

 

So I'm thinking it would be good to return the current lineup of Schwarber, Kike, Devers, Bogey, Verdugo, JDM, Renfroe, Vazquez, and Arroyo (and Iglesias). moonslav can comment on the feasibility of that. Oh, and, hopefully, the "we must have a great defense" craze will go away.

 

The pitching is more complicated. Sale and Eovaldi will of course return. ERod is a question--let him go to free agency or sign him? I see these guys probably returning: Whitlock, Houck, Pivetta, Brasier, Taylor, Sawamura, Robles, and Barnes because of his extension. Bloom has his work cut out for him, but it helps that Cora is his manager.

 

Improving the D was the mantra- not getting to great defense overnight.

 

I can't see us paying Schwarber and JD $35M to DH and close our eyes when they take the field. You don't pay $16M a year for Schwarber with the idea he can DH in a year. You just wait until next year to pay for a DH, or you trade JD.

 

We are not bringing back Richards, Perez, Ottavino, Marwin, Andriese and Santana, so this will not be "the same team." The ERod question might make a big dent, too. (JD will likely be back, unless traded.)

 

We have a wonderful chance to improve on the players we lose, add 40 man roster depth with our Rule 5 protectees, and maybe make a trade or two.

 

The winter after this is way more problematic, despite losing Price's contract money. We have Bogey, JD, Eovaldi, Kike, Vaz (assuming we take his $7M option and don't trade him) and others. These guys will be much harder to replace at the same cost.

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

ERod is so hard to make a plan for, he is just so inconsistent. Which of course was why I had confidence in him last night, after such a poor outing he looked like a good candidate to spin a good one the next time out. But do you give money to a guy you don't know which version will show up on any given day?

[sk7326]

ERod is so hard to make a plan for' date=' he is just so inconsistent. Which of course was why I had confidence in him last night, after such a poor outing he looked like a good candidate to spin a good one the next time out. But do you give money to a guy you don't know which version will show up on any given day?[/quote']

 

If the defense improves, his numbers will too. He actually pitched well more or less, but just did not get help defensively. (this was more acute early in the season) Now, his inconsistency and 2020 health issues might give some more room to sign him. Heck, maybe Rodriguez is amenable to just taking the qualifying offer and betting on himself. If the team can get him extended for 3 years and under $50M it'd be hard to say no.

[moonslav59]

2022

 

End of Team Control

Ottavino

Richards (no on option)

Perez (no on option)

Robles

Santana

Shaw

(Marwin, Iggy & Andriese already gone)

 

QO?

ERod

 

Opt Out?

JD (no?)

Schwarber (yes)

 

Again, that's a lot of money off the books and only Schwarber and maybe ERod needing serious consideration for replacement by addition to the roster.

 

Let's say 7 slots become open (Schwarber plus the 6 FAs). We replace 5-6 with Rule 5 protection players:

Bello

Santos

Winckowski

Downs

Maybe 1 or 2 from Feltman, Crawford

 

That leaves room for 1-2 outside additions before you have to start trading or DFA'ing bubble players players:

 

1 from Plawwecki, Hernandez/Wong

Davis

Potts

Rosario

Arauz

Cordero

Sawamura

[Nick]

Moon keeps talking about you don't pay say $38M for 2 DH. It's just not that simple.

 

Cora is master of managing players.

 

There's plenty of bats for JD, Verdugo, Renfroe, Arroyo, Schwarber and Dalbec for 5 starting positions. Full timers are Kike, Xander and Devers along with 2 catchers.

 

Why do you think Schwarber can only DH in 2022? He played 1B and LF in 2021. We don't win without him. Have you ever heard of 'hedging' your bets?

 

His $16M can come from Pedey/Beni relief.

[a700hitter]

Come on, 700. Be honest with yourself. You read just about all of my posts. Have I in any way hinted at the thought this team is getting worse?

 

You know the answer. What other reason would you ask me about that?

 

And, please, stop with the civil discussion nonsense. You continually take attacks on your positions as personal attacks and go right into name-calling mode or this passive-aggressive nonsense.

 

Just recently, someone called a position you believed "pathetic." They did not call you pathetic, but you launched right into name-calling, like you have done so many times. It's rarely "civil" with you, unless someone is agreeing with you.

Okay whatever. Btw, I don’t read most of your posts— too wordy and extremely boring and often irrelevant. Just my opinion.

[mvp 78]

Okay whatever. Btw, I don’t read most of your posts— too wordy and extremely boring and often irrelevant. Just my opinion.

 

moon isn't a must read then?

[oldtimer]

Improving the D was the mantra- not getting to great defense overnight.

 

I can't see us paying Schwarber and JD $35M to DH and close our eyes when they take the field. You don't pay $16M a year for Schwarber with the idea he can DH in a year. You just wait until next year to pay for a DH, or you trade JD.

 

We are not bringing back Richards, Perez, Ottavino, Marwin, Andriese and Santana, so this will not be "the same team." The ERod question might make a big dent, too. (JD will likely be back, unless traded.)

 

We have a wonderful chance to improve on the players we lose, add 40 man roster depth with our Rule 5 protectees, and maybe make a trade or two.

 

The winter after this is way more problematic, despite losing Price's contract money. We have Bogey, JD, Eovaldi, Kike, Vaz (assuming we take his $7M option and don't trade him) and others. These guys will be much harder to replace at the same cost.

 

I agree that the smart move is to treat JDM and Schwaber as an either one or the other for DH. Playing both is a defensive liability. So either JDM opts out, is traded and we try hard to sign Schwaber or we live with JDM for another year and let Schwaber walk. Both are quality offensive players but Schwaber is younger so I prefer him.

 

There are a lot of guys who won't be back. The big question is whether we are willing to compete for E-Rod in the FA market and the corollary, do we make a QO to him?

 

We will be rid of Pedey's contract and quite a few smaller contracts but will not doubt see arb increases. As you point out the following year Bloom will need to make decisions on a number of key players with large contracts.

 

Part of our success will require promoting some of our low cost prospects year to year. Bloom has done a lot to make that possible but he had to start from a depleted minor lead system. (Duran, Casas, Yorke, Mayer, Bello, Seabold, others.)

[moonslav59]

Moon keeps talking about you don't pay say $38M for 2 DH. It's just not that simple.

 

Cora is master of managing players.

 

There's plenty of bats for JD, Verdugo, Renfroe, Arroyo, Schwarber and Dalbec for 5 starting positions. Full timers are Kike, Xander and Devers along with 2 catchers.

 

Why do you think Schwarber can only DH in 2022? He played 1B and LF in 2021. We don't win without him. Have you ever heard of 'hedging' your bets?

 

His $16M can come from Pedey/Beni relief.

 

I'm not saying there is no merit to having both Schwarber and JD on the 2022 roster.

 

Yes, we can create some complex chart whereby we can play Schwarber, JD, Dalbec, Verdugo, Renfroe, Kike and Arroyo 8-9 out of 10 games to accommodate keeping Schwarber at a cost that will surely cut into what we can spend on pitching, and I ask why do that?

 

Some things have changed since we added Schwarber at the deadline:

 

1) We went from having 4-5 SP'er we could basically count on to 1 or maybe 2, now that ERod stepped up.

2) We lose Richards, Perez, Ottavino and maybe ERod from this roster and have a winter spending budget that necessitates adding 2-4 pitchers.

3) We thought we needed a 1Bman, when we traded for Schwarber. We may not need one after what Dalbec showed us after July 30th.

4) We had doubts about Verdugo and JD on July 30th. Both were sub .700 for an extended period of time, when we traded for KS. Both look more solid, now and don't look like we need to hedge our bets on for 2022.

5) Kike and Renfroe only solidified their hold on FT roles for 2022, after the KS trade.

6) Only Arroyo remains a doubt for 2022, but almost everyone wants to keep Kike in CF, next year, even if it means bringing back Iggy or signing a 2Bman, this winter. So, Kike in CF means platooning Verdugo/Renfroe or squeezing them out of OF playing time, so Schwarber can get some games in there.

 

Sure, it's great to hedge our bets with a deepened bench, but I don't want any of these guys sitting on the bench, unless it's their regularly scheduled day off- maybe 5 games a year. The only exceptions might be Arroyo and Dalbec vs a few RHPs.

 

Of course, I'd rather have Scharbers bat in the line-up over Dalbec and or Arroyo, but taking away low cost capable players away from the line-up comes at a heavy financial cost. It's not just answering the question, "Is the gain worth it?"

 

The overriding question, IMO, is WHERE can we spend a limited winter spending budget to bring the most bang for the buck?

 

All our starting pitchers are healthy, and before yesterday, we were all agreeing we have but one SP'er we can trust. For the love of God!

 

I'm sorry for getting overly dramatic, but for the life of me, I'm thinking every penny, save maybe a couple for a utility IF'er like maybe Iggy, should and needs to be spent on pitching.

 

Just bringing back ERod will add $10M out of maybe $40M Bloom will have to spend- and that just keeps that one rotation slot even. Much is being said of expanding the roles and IP'd by Whitlock and Houck, and how that can fill much of our winter pitching needs, and I don't disagree, but let's face it, we are not adding 2 new pitchers with those two. At best, we are adding maybe 150 IP combined from 2021 to 2022. That's like adding one solid pitcher. If we keep them both in the pen, a possible scenario, we won't be adding much more than 50-100 IP from the two combined.

 

IMO, we need an ace or a very solid #2, and with Eovaldi's deal up after 2022, I'm leaning towards an ace. That's $25-30M right there. That's it- the whole budget:

 

$27M SP'er

+$10M ERod

$3M Iggy

 

We can't even replace Ottavino's innings.

 

How do we squeeze $15-18M a year for Schwarber into $40M and upgrade the staff like we need to?

 

Don't offer ERod a QO? Don't sign an ace? Move Houck and Whitlock to the rotation and pray that works, while filling 3-4 pen slots with the $18M left over after signing Schwarber and Iggy? Maybe.

 

I'd prefer to spend on pitching. I'd love to have Schwarber back, and if Henry okays us spending close to $55M, this winter, then count me in.

Edited October 12, 2021 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

Okay whatever. Btw, I don’t read most of your posts— too wordy and extremely boring and often irrelevant. Just my opinion.

 

You really thought I've been claiming we are in decline and heading towards a cliff?

[Old Red]

I'm not saying there is no merit to having both Schwarber and JD on the 2022 roster.

 

Yes, we can create some complex chart whereby we can play Schwarber, JD, Dalbec, Verdugo, Renfroe, Kike and Arroyo 8-9 out of 10 games to accommodate keeping Schwarber at a cost that will surely cut into what we can spend on pitching, and I ask why do that?

 

Some things have changed since we added Schwarber at the deadline:

 

1) We went from having 4-5 SP'er we could basically count on to 1 or maybe 2, now that ERod stepped up.

2) We lose Richards, Perez, Ottavino and maybe ERod from this roster and have a winter spending budget that necessitates adding 2-4 pitchers.

3) We thought we needed a 1Bman, when we traded for Schwarber. We may not need one after what Dalbec showed us after July 30th.

4) We had doubts about Verdugo and JD on July 30th. Both were sub .700 for an extended period of time, when we traded for KS. Both look more solid, now and don't look like we need to hedge our bets on for 2022.

5) Kike and Renfroe only solidified their hold on FT roles for 2022, after the KS trade.

6) Only Arroyo remains a doubt for 2022, but almost everyone wants to keep Kike in CF, next year, even if it means bringing back Iggy or signing a 2Bman, this winter. So, Kike in CF means platooning Verdugo/Renfroe or squeezing them out of OF playing time, so Schwarber can get some games in there.

 

Sure, it's great to hedge our bets with a deepened bench, but I don't want any of these guys sitting on the bench, unless it's their regularly scheduled day off- maybe 5 games a year. The only exceptions might be Arroyo and Dalbec vs a few RHPs.

 

Of course, I'd rather have Scharbers bat in the line-up over Dalbec and or Arroyo, but taking away low cost capable players away from the line-up comes at a heavy financial cost. It's not just answering the question, "Is the gain worth it?"

 

The overriding question, IMO, is WHERE can we spend a limited winter spending budget to bring the most bang for the buck?

 

All our starting pitchers are healthy, and before yesterday, we were all agreeing we have but one SP'er we can trust. For the love of God!

 

I'm sorry for getting overly dramatic, but for the life of me, I'm thinking every penny, save maybe a couple for a utility IF'er like maybe Iggy, should and needs to be spent on pitching.

 

Just bringing back ERod will add $10M out of maybe $40M Bloom will have to spend- and that just keeps that one rotation slot even. Much is being said of expanding the roles and IP'd by Whitlock and Houck, and how that can fill much of our winter pitching needs, and I don't disagree, but let's face it, we are not adding 2 new pitchers with those two. At best, we are adding maybe 150 IP combined from 2021 to 2022. That's like adding one solid pitcher. If we keep them both in the pen, a possible scenario, we won't be adding much more than 50-100 IP from the two combined.

 

IMO, we need an ace or a very solid #2, and with Eovaldi's deal up after 2022, I'm leaning towards an ace. That's $25-30M right there. That's it- the whole budget:

 

$27M SP'er

+$10M ERod

$3M Iggy

 

We can't even replace Ottavino's innings.

 

How do we squeeze $15-18M a year for Schwarber into $40M and upgrade the staff like we need to?

 

Don't offer ERod a QO? Don't sign an ace? Move Houck and Whitlock to the rotation and pray that works, while filling 3-4 pen slots with the $18M left over after signing Schwarber and Iggy? Maybe.

 

I'd prefer to spend on pitching. I'd love to have Schwarber back, and if Henry okays us spending close to $55M, this winter, then count me in.

 

We’ve talked about this before, but before you worry about any of this you have to know what’s going to happen with JD, Bogey, and Raffy. You make valid points, but to me you have to take care of these 3 issues first, before you go on to all the other issues. I still say JD stays, and won’t get traded. Either you extend Bogey now, and if he doesn’t take it then trade him instead of letting him walk out the door for nothing. Then with Raffy you extend him now, and not for any 10+ year contract, because if you don’t do it now then it will be to expensive later. To me things things have to be worked out, before all the other things you mentioned.

[moonslav59]

Sink or swim, I see us starting the year with Dalbec as our FT 1Bman. We don't sign anyone to back him up, unless the utility guy we sign can play first. We count on Casas to be ready, if Dalbec struggles for a long time.

 

We may bring Schwarber back, and have him work out at 1B over the winter, but I don't think the money is there for that luxury. I'd be fine trading JD, if it meant we could sign Schwarber, as long as we don't end up paying more than $3-6M of JD's deal. That might bring the cost of Schwarber to about the same as what JD makes, next year.

 

Adding Iggy would make me feel a lot better about Arroyo at 2B and having a strong back-up at SS (over Arauz).

 

To me, it's about pitching, pitching, pitching and if possible, improving the defense (Iggy).

 

SP1 _____

SP2 Eovaldi

SP3 _____ (ERod?)

SP4 Sale

SP5 Pivetta

SP6 Seabold

 

RP1 Houck

RP2 Whitlock

RP3 _____

RP4 Barnes

RP5 Taylor

RP6 Brasier

RP7 DHern

RP8 Sawamura/Davis/Valdez

 

OR

 

SP1 _____

SP2 Eovaldi

SP3 Whitlock

SP4 Sale

SP5 Pivetta

SP3 Seabold

 

RP1 Houck

RP2 _____

RP3 _____

RP4 Barnes

RP5 Taylor

RP6 Brasier

RP7 DHern

RP8 Sawamura/Davis/Valdez

 

3 Solid pitchers needed- minimum.

[moonslav59]

We’ve talked about this before, but before you worry about any of this you have to know what’s going to happen with JD, Bogey, and Raffy. You make valid points, but to me you have to take care of these 3 issues first, before you go on to all the other issues. I still say JD stays, and won’t get traded. Either you extend Bogey now, and if he doesn’t take it then trade him instead of letting him walk out the door for nothing. Then with Raffy you extend him now, and not for any 10+ year contract, because if you don’t do it now then it will be to expensive later. To me things things have to be worked out, before all the other things you mentioned.

 

I agree that JD does not opt out. If we don't trade him, the answer to Schwarber should be no, IMO.

The Bogey extension is important, but may not be addressed over the winter. Of course, if this is something Bloom thinks needs immediate attention, this choice has to be made before we can look at other choices- agreed. (Let's say we trade Bogey for a pitcher and sign Iggy to play SS, then bringing back Schwarber's bat makes more sense, since we drop a lot of offense at the SS position.)

I doubt we address Devers, this winter, but that is just my opinion.

 

Either way, no matter what we do with JD, Bogey and Devers, our great need to improve pitching does not change. The amount of money we have to spend, might change, and another priority need might arise, if one is traded, but nothing changes with the pitching, unless we trade open of these guys for a pitcher.

 

Extending Raffy without adding some pitchers means we are worse, next year.

[Old Red]

I agree that JD does not opt out. If we don't trade him, the answer to Schwarber should be no, IMO.

The Bogey extension is important, but may not be addressed over the winter. Of course, if this is something Bloom thinks needs immediate attention, this choice has to be made before we can look at other choices- agreed. (Let's say we trade Bogey for a pitcher and sign Iggy to play SS, then bringing back Schwarber's bat makes more sense, since we drop a lot of offense at the SS position.)

I doubt we address Devers, this winter, but that is just my opinion.

 

Either way, no matter what we do with JD, Bogey and Devers, our great need to improve pitching does not change. The amount of money we have to spend, might change, and another priority need might arise, if one is traded, but nothing changes with the pitching, unless we trade open of these guys for a pitcher.

 

Extending Raffy without adding some pitchers means we are worse, next year.

 

I would like to see Bogey stay, but you can’t overpay for him, and if his situation isn’t addressed this winter, and wait till next winter then that can put you in a big hole especially if he just walks, and you get nothing for him.

 

Pitching has always been a problem, and a need, and probably always will. Nobody knows what Sale will look like next year, and if E Rod isn’t resigned, and EO is up after next year, so those are many holes to fill, and if nothing from below then it will get real expensive.

[Hugh2]

The cliff talk was always about striking a balance. The “cliff” was never a guaranteed destination rather a possibility.

 

There’s no argument here, the debate is over. This season is a perfect example.

 

Bloom didn’t mortgage the future and struck a balance. No cliff looking, only the apex, and we’re still competing for a WS this year.

 

It must really hurt, the butt hurt must hurt so much to be so wrong, with a hyperextended, pullled brain by doing mega mental gymnastics.

 

Good organizations, make calculated, strategic, long term moves most of the time. They don’t salivate at every big name and throw blank checks at them to appease the fans, because the real appeasement comes from WINS. Plenty of that going around now. Winning!!

[Old Red]

Sink or swim, I see us starting the year with Dalbec as our FT 1Bman. We don't sign anyone to back him up, unless the utility guy we sign can play first. We count on Casas to be ready, if Dalbec struggles for a long time.

 

We may bring Schwarber back, and have him work out at 1B over the winter, but I don't think the money is there for that luxury. I'd be fine trading JD, if it meant we could sign Schwarber, as long as we don't end up paying more than $3-6M of JD's deal. That might bring the cost of Schwarber to about the same as what JD makes, next year.

 

Adding Iggy would make me feel a lot better about Arroyo at 2B and having a strong back-up at SS (over Arauz).

 

To me, it's about pitching, pitching, pitching and if possible, improving the defense (Iggy).

 

SP1 _____

SP2 Eovaldi

SP3 _____ (ERod?)

SP4 Sale

SP5 Pivetta

SP6 Seabold

 

RP1 Houck

RP2 Whitlock

RP3 _____

RP4 Barnes

RP5 Taylor

RP6 Brasier

RP7 DHern

RP8 Sawamura/Davis/Valdez

 

OR

 

SP1 _____

SP2 Eovaldi

SP3 Whitlock

SP4 Sale

SP5 Pivetta

SP3 Seabold

 

RP1 Houck

RP2 _____

RP3 _____

RP4 Barnes

RP5 Taylor

RP6 Brasier

RP7 DHern

RP8 Sawamura/Davis/Valdez

 

3 Solid pitchers needed- minimum.

 

I keep on saying I just don’t see the infatuation with Schwaber. I have said this before that he is not a run producer, and is not a hitter in JD’s category, who hit for power, and average. Not the JD at the present even though he almost had 100 RBI again. Schwaber can hit as many homers, but he has only been above 71 RBI once in his career, and his high BA has been 266, and no he always hasn’t batted lead off. Someone on here wanted to give him a lifetime contract. Whoa pump the brakes. Of all the great players that have played for the Red Sox through the years, and this is the guy that should get a lifetime contract. He is no Babe Ruth, and shouldn’t be payed like one, nor is he a JD, and doesn’t deserve that kind of contract.

[a700hitter]

The cliff talk was always about striking a balance. The “cliff” was never a guaranteed destination rather a possibility.

 

There’s no argument here, the debate is over. This season is a perfect example.

 

Bloom didn’t mortgage the future and struck a balance. No cliff looking, only the apex, and we’re still competing for a WS this year.

 

It must really hurt, the butt hurt must hurt so much to be so wrong, with a hyperextended, pullled brain by doing mega mental gymnastics.

 

Good organizations, make calculated, strategic, long term moves most of the time. They don’t salivate at every big name and throw blank checks at them to appease the fans, because the real appeasement comes from WINS. Plenty of that going around now. Winning!!

I was right in calling the possibility of a cliff a myth like Bigfoot. A team like the Red Sox should be able to rebuild while continuing to be competitive. Bloom has been able to achieve both. You are being too hard on Moon for being wrong.

[Nick]

Moon

 

Not sure why you think we need SP.

 

Sale, Eovaldi, Pivetta, Houck and Whitlock would do fine....AND IT DOESN'T COST US ANYTHING. We get rid of $22-$24M in payroll. Are you telling me Houck and Whitlock can't replace Perez and Richards? Why do we need to spend money on SP? Sale is the replacement for E Rod.

 

Put the money into bullpen.

 

Not sure why you think we need tons of money for SP.

 

We have every position player coming back. Just add Schwarber and make it stronger.

 

Bloom can make the pen work. He's a genius at those of things.

 

Your first inclination is to spend money. I no longer think that way.

 

I rather have Schwarber in 2022 and beyond as opposed to go look for one in 2023, assuming JD stays put.

[moonslav59]

Moon

 

Not sure why you think we need SP.

 

Sale, Eovaldi, Pivetta, Houck and Whitlock would do fine....AND IT DOESN'T COST US ANYTHING. We get rid of $22-$24M in payroll. Are you telling me Houck and Whitlock can't replace Perez and Richards? Why do we need to spend money on SP? Sale is the replacement for E Rod.

 

Put the money into bullpen.

 

Not sure why you think we need tons of money for SP.

 

We have every position player coming back. Just add Schwarber and make it stronger.

 

Bloom can make the pen work. He's a genius at those of things.

 

Your first inclination is to spend money. I no longer think that way.

 

I rather have Schwarber in 2022 and beyond as opposed to go look for one in 2023, assuming JD stays put.

 

A couple days ago, the talk was we have 1 SPer.

 

I said, if we use both Houck and Whitlock as SPers we’d need 3 top RPers. I even provided a chart with both alternatives.how much will signing 3 of the best 5-7 RPers cost plus a utility man. Subtract that from $40M and that’s what you can pay for Schwarber.

[moonslav59]

I was right in calling the possibility of a cliff a myth like Bigfoot. A team like the Red Sox should be able to rebuild while continuing to be competitive. Bloom has been able to achieve both. You are being too hard on Moon for being wrong.

 

Master of spin. We sucked in 2020, and you predicted gloom for 2021, and you call yourself “right.” LOL! You just didn’t call it a cliff.

 

I’ve admitted I was wrong, and it seems you really enjoy bringing it up over and over. Bring it on. No need to ease up.

 

I can take the criticism without going into name-calling. You should try it sometime.

[a700hitter]

Master of spin. We sucked in 2020, and you predicted gloom for 2021, and you call yourself “right.” LOL! You just didn’t call it a cliff.

 

I’ve admitted I was wrong, and it seems you really enjoy bringing it up over and over. Bring it on. No need to ease up.

 

I can take the criticism without going into name-calling. You should try it sometime.

My argument was never that there would be or wouldn’t a cliff. My argument was that there was no reason that a team with the resources of the Red Sox SHOULD experience a cliff. Abbreviated 2020 was bad and I did think 2021 was going to look bad, so the cliff looked like it was here. However, Bloom proved me right in demonstrating that rebuilding could happen without a cliff.

[moonslav59]

My argument was never that there would be or wouldn’t a cliff. My argument was that there was no reason that a team with the resources of the Red Sox SHOULD experience a cliff. Abbreviated 2020 was bad and I did think 2021 was going to look bad, so the cliff looked like it was here. However, Bloom proved me right in demonstrating that rebuilding could happen without a cliff.

 

Funny how the GM you have bashed shamelessly, ended up “proving you right.”

 

I, on the other hand, felt a cliff was coming and would last longer than a year, but once we hired Bloom, I projected 86 wins “before we signed any free agents,” while you projected 70 at most, and somehow you are always proven right.

 

I admit I was wrong. It’s not as hard to do as you might think.

[Nick]

A couple days ago, the talk was we have 1 SPer.

 

I said, if we use both Houck and Whitlock as SPers we’d need 3 top RPers. I even provided a chart with both alternatives.how much will signing 3 of the best 5-7 RPers cost plus a utility man. Subtract that from $40M and that’s what you can pay for Schwarber.

 

I much rather get the starting pitching settled. Again, I don't think you see my point. Between E Rod, Richards and Perez, we are saving $25M? You telling me that's not enough to help reinforce the bullpen?

 

We already have Barnes, Sawamura, Taylor, Darwinzon, Brasier. Robles wants to come back. We can probably have Davis. We probably have some arms in minors ready to move up.

 

We are the new Rays.

 

Quit talking about needing $$$$$$$$$$ to be competitive. We signed both Kike and Renfroe for about $11M.

 

Dalbec, Whitlock and Houck made the MLB Pipeline Rookie Team. There will be more in 2022.

[a700hitter]

Funny how the GM you have bashed shamelessly, ended up “proving you right.”

 

I, on the other hand, felt a cliff was coming and would last longer than a year, but once we hired Bloom, I projected 86 wins “before we signed any free agents,” while you projected 70 at most, and somehow you are always proven right.

 

I admit I was wrong. It’s not as hard to do as you might think.

It is funny how it worked out. Bloom turned out to be the right guy for the job and I underestimated his moves.

[moonslav59]

It is funny how it worked out. Bloom turned out to be the right guy for the job and I underestimated his moves.

 

Smooth.

[Old Red]

I much rather get the starting pitching settled. Again, I don't think you see my point. Between E Rod, Richards and Perez, we are saving $25M? You telling me that's not enough to help reinforce the bullpen?

 

We already have Barnes, Sawamura, Taylor, Darwinzon, Brasier. Robles wants to come back. We can probably have Davis. We probably have some arms in minors ready to move up.

 

We are the new Rays.

 

Quit talking about needing $$$$$$$$$$ to be competitive. We signed both Kike and Renfroe for about $11M.

 

Dalbec, Whitlock and Houck made the MLB Pipeline Rookie Team. There will be more in 2022.

 

There will also be players getting raises next year namely Raffy, and even Renfroe could be in for a boost, so it’s quite as simple as that.