A Realistic View at 2022: Part I

[mvp 78]

That’s a universal baseball solution that can be applied to every team ever…

 

Yes.

[mvp 78]

You are 100% comfortable rolling out this bullpen?

 

Also, throwing Bloom under the bus for Ottavino and Andriese... LOL

 

Andriese was worth the signing solely for teaching Whitlock his changeup grip.

[notin]

Yes.

 

So how about

 

Cleveland gets Gilberto Jimenez, alleviating their 40-man roster crunch a bit while helping their farm system

Cincinnati gets Andres Gimenez, giving them an actual starting SS

Boston gets 5Gold favorite Lucas Sims to help out that bullpen

 

Works per BTV...

[Bellhorn04]

You are 100% comfortable rolling out this bullpen?

 

There's no comfort in baseball.

[mvp 78]

There's no comfort in baseball.

 

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

So how about

 

Cleveland gets Gilberto Jimenez, alleviating their 40-man roster crunch a bit while helping their farm system

Cincinnati gets Andres Gimenez, giving them an actual starting SS

Boston gets 5Gold favorite Lucas Sims to help out that bullpen

 

Works per BTV...

 

I'm like Lindsey Graham: I'm out! Until I'm back in...

[Bellhorn04]

I'm like Lindsey Graham: I'm out! Until I'm back in...

 

You sneaky devil.

[mvp 78]

So how about

 

Cleveland gets Gilberto Jimenez, alleviating their 40-man roster crunch a bit while helping their farm system

Cincinnati gets Andres Gimenez, giving them an actual starting SS

Boston gets 5Gold favorite Lucas Sims to help out that bullpen

 

Works per BTV...

 

Love to trade top 10 prospects for a projected 0 fWAR player.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

The hard part is assembling one. Even if you spend big money on RP'ers, it is a still a crap shoot.

 

Remember when the Rockies signed like 3 big FA RP'ers? I think they all flopped.

 

It's largely hit or miss. Getting quantity works, sometimes, as you hit or miss it until you find 4-6 that work out, but it can lead to a lot of early losses as you work through your long list.

 

We used 37 pitchers, this year, and the make-up of our pen changed radically as did the roles of many of those who remained from day one.

'

 

Brings back memories of Gagne being signed by the SOX. I guess that could be defined as a 'flop.'

[Bellhorn04]

Brings back memories of Gagne being signed by the SOX. I guess that could be defined as a 'flop.'

 

Gagne was a deadline trade in 2007 in which we gave up a package that included David Murphy and Kason Gabbard.

 

I thought it was a good trade at the time. Papelbon and Okajima had been pitching a lot of innings. It seems that we acquired Gagne at the very moment he was cooked.

 

We still won the World Series so I think Theo has to be given a full pass on that one.

[mvp 78]

Gagne was a deadline trade in 2007 in which we gave up a package that included David Murphy and Kason Gabbard.

 

I thought it was a good trade at the time. Papelbon and Okajima had been pitching a lot of innings. It seems that we acquired Gagne at the very moment he was cooked.

 

We still won the World Series so I think Theo has to be given a full pass on that one.

 

3.03 FIP with the Sox, 6.75 ERA, .439 BABIP

 

8/19 - 9/30/18: 2.84 ERA (last 13 appearances)

[sk7326]

I think the team looked at the 2021 offseason like they did ahead of the 2013 season. This was not REALLY a last place team. Bloom made some unsexy signings with some significant upside, and the team bet on some of the players who were bad in the sprint season to have more normal output. Now Kike was not as shocking a revelation as Victorino was in 2013 - but the same general vibe.

 

I do think the team felt that they had a roster which could compete for a Wild Card position - and this being baseball, get into the tournament and who knows? But I don't think management expected this team to spend as many days in first place as it did.

 

Of course management, did not anticipate the team choosing such a banger of a "fight song".

Edited October 14, 2021 by sk7326

[moonslav59]

You are 100% comfortable rolling out this bullpen?

 

Not even close.

 

Would we have been better had we traded for Kimbrel, one of the best MLB RP'er before the deadline?

[mvp 78]

Not even close.

 

Would we have been better had we traded for Kimbrel, one of the best MLB RP'er before the deadline?

 

No, because Kimbrel fell apart the last time we had him for a stretch run and was overpriced.

[sk7326]

No, because Kimbrel fell apart the last time we had him for a stretch run and was overpriced.

 

Honestly, I'm curious whether he would have gotten trapped in that massive stupid outbreak that was the real chair shot to the team's division chances.

[Bellhorn04]

Honestly, I'm curious whether he would have gotten trapped in that massive stupid outbreak that was the real chair shot to the team's division chances.

 

I'm not sure the COVID outbreak had much effect on the team's record. They were playing badly before it started.

[moonslav59]

No, because Kimbrel fell apart the last time we had him for a stretch run and was overpriced.

 

Exactly why spending a lot of resources (money and prospects in trade) for RP'ers is almost always a huge gamble.

[mvp 78]

Exactly why spending a lot of resources (money and prospects in trade) for RP'ers is almost always a huge gamble.

 

Spend it on the right guys, duh...

[Bellhorn04]

Spend it on the right guys, duh...

 

Much easier said than done.

[mvp 78]

Much easier said than done.

 

No, when you order just hit the red easy button.

[moonslav59]

Spend it on the right guys, duh...

 

Even the mastermind genius, Bloom has had a very hard time finding RP'ers that can help on a consistent basis.

 

If you want, I can provide a list of over 30 RP'ers Bloom tried over the last 2 years, most were acquired by him.

 

He spent rather big on Ottavino, and just gave Barnes an extension. Andriese & Sawamura were a couple he signed for more than the min, this past winter.

 

Looking at who we can trust going into 2022, I'm not seeing much, especially if we move Houck & Whitlock to the rotation.

 

A lot of luck will be needed.

[mvp 78]

Even the mastermind genius, Bloom has had a very hard time finding RP'ers that can help on a consistent basis.

 

If you want, I can provide a list of over 30 RP'ers Bloom tried over the last 2 years, most were acquired by him.

 

He spent rather big on Ottavino, and just gave Barnes an extension. Andriese & Sawamura were a couple he signed for more than the min, this past winter.

 

Looking at who we can trust going into 2022, I'm not seeing much, especially if we move Houck & Whitlock to the rotation.

 

A lot of luck will be needed.

 

Barnes will be good next year. One of Houck and Whitlock will stay in the pen. Feltman will be called up.

 

Opening day bullpen of Whitlock, Barnes, Brasier, Taylor, Davis, DHern, Sawamura, Feltman/Bazardo/Valdez isn't the worst thing in the world (and basically resembles what we have now), but I'd rather bring in some new blood. Davis, DHern and Sawamura are expendable.

[moonslav59]

Barnes will be good next year. One of Houck and Whitlock will stay in the pen. Feltman will be called up.

 

Opening day bullpen of Whitlock, Barnes, Brasier, Taylor, Davis, DHern, Sawamura, Feltman/Bazardo/Valdez isn't the worst thing in the world (and basically resembles what we have now), but I'd rather bring in some new blood. Davis, DHern and Sawamura are expendable.

 

I'd rather we stock up the rotation and keep Houck and Whitlock in the pen.

 

I feel better about them than any los cost FA signings.

[mvp 78]

I'd rather we stock up the rotation and keep Houck and Whitlock in the pen.

 

I feel better about them than any los cost FA signings.

 

Rays have consistently had starters only go 4-5 innings and have been a very good team. Wonder if Bloom goes that way. Can either push Houck and Whitlock to that role or keep them as the important multi inning reliever role that McHugh excelled in this year.

[Bellhorn04]

Rays have consistently had starters only go 4-5 innings and have been a very good team. Wonder if Bloom goes that way. Can either push Houck and Whitlock to that role or keep them as the important multi inning reliever role that McHugh excelled in this year.

 

Yes, pitching is a whole new game now, and the Rays have been at the forefront.

 

The Rays might also be an example of how you have to be careful not to out-clever yourself, as Cash may have done with McClanahan in Game 4, bringing him in in the 3rd. I was re-watching some of Game 4 last night and it was almost comical how much Smoltz talked about McClanahan being taken out of his routine and how that might affect him adversely.

[notin]

I'd rather we stock up the rotation and keep Houck and Whitlock in the pen.

 

I feel better about them than any los cost FA signings.

 

While I agree with that plan, I would be surprised if it happened....

[notin]

Barnes will be good next year. One of Houck and Whitlock will stay in the pen. Feltman will be called up.

 

Opening day bullpen of Whitlock, Barnes, Brasier, Taylor, Davis, DHern, Sawamura, Feltman/Bazardo/Valdez isn't the worst thing in the world (and basically resembles what we have now), but I'd rather bring in some new blood. Davis, DHern and Sawamura are expendable.

 

Te only one that might be worth anything to someone in a trade is Hernandez, because he has a ridiculous triple-digit fastball and 5 years of control.

 

The downside is all he can do with that fastball is walk people at 100mph...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The downside is all he can do with that fastball is walk people at 100mph...

 

... or if he's conservative, drill his batter in the kneecap with it.

[mvp 78]

Te only one that might be worth anything to someone in a trade is Hernandez, because he has a ridiculous triple-digit fastball and 5 years of control.

 

The downside is all he can do with that fastball is walk people at 100mph...

 

Maybe he can become Joe Kelly? IDK.

[moonslav59]

While I agree with that plan, I would be surprised if it happened....

 

Me, too.

 

Starters are more expensive, and you don't always "get it right" with them, either. (We spent $10M on Richards.)

 

If I had to guess, I'd say Houck is the closer, Barnes the number 2 or 3. We sign one solid RP'er and a bunch of guys like Rios and Robles.

 

We move Whitlock to the rotation- maybe our #3 or 4, depending on ERod's situation, but I still hope we sign a #2, at worst, even if ERod returns.