Rafael Devers

[illinoisredsox]

Days of Big Red Machine is over. You can't simply write down same lineup every day. But Sox need better utility players. You can't have Marrero's of the world on your 25 man roster. I actually think Lin is an upgrade from Holt. He's just more athletic. Beni is having a pedestrian 'rookie' season. Pedroia went from winning Rookie of the Year to MVP in first two years. Some players mature early and ceiling is limited. I'm not sure if I would call Beni, "special'.

 

There's only one player on this team that I wouldn't trade. Everyone else is a game (not right now but in the future)

 

This is where NL teams have an advantage. Their bench players actually get to the plate a few times a week when they are called on to hit for the pitchers. Throw in double switches and they get some actual game time. AL bench types (other than the back-up catcher) can go a week or more without doing more than spitting sunflower seeds.

[Kimmi]

Also don't we have to give our front office some credit for insisting that Devers was not available for trade last winter? They looked to have Devers pegged correctly.

 

In Vitale's voice, "SIX MORE YEARS OF CONTROL, BABY!!!!!!"

 

Thanks Ben!

[sk7326]

Days of Big Red Machine is over. You can't simply write down same lineup every day. But Sox need better utility players. You can't have Marrero's of the world on your 25 man roster. I actually think Lin is an upgrade from Holt. He's just more athletic. Beni is having a pedestrian 'rookie' season. Pedroia went from winning Rookie of the Year to MVP in first two years. Some players mature early and ceiling is limited. I'm not sure if I would call Beni, "special'.

 

There's only one player on this team that I wouldn't trade. Everyone else is a game (not right now but in the future)

 

Pedestrian compared to Aaron Judge - solid compared to anybody else. Stuff happens at different rates - David Ortiz was a not-very good regular in Minnesota. Things happen - ultimately the upside of this team lies on the kiddos, which for any organization is a good problem to have. Indeed our kid led team is a 1st place one knowing that there is room to improve.

[mvp 78]

Thanks Ben!

 

Ben insisted they shouldn't trade him last offseason?

[sk7326]

This is where NL teams have an advantage. Their bench players actually get to the plate a few times a week when they are called on to hit for the pitchers. Throw in double switches and they get some actual game time. AL bench types (other than the back-up catcher) can go a week or more without doing more than spitting sunflower seeds.

 

More true in 1997 than now. 12 man pitching staffs mean that there are just fewer bench players - guys HAVE to play.

[Kimmi]

I think the question is not will Devers be here the rest of the year ... just how will his work be managed. I think it would have been easy to do a straight platoon - but he looks surprisingly stout against lefties already. (first Pawsox homerun, a hit yesterday) But Nunez gives Farrell a lot of options to manage rest and PT - it's like getting a good Brock Holt.

 

I think it makes sense to play Devers mostly every day and use Nunez as a super utility guy. There will be enough at bats for Nunez in that role.

[Nick]

Ben was the ultimate #2 hitter in the lineup.

 

Hitting behind the runner, dropping sacrifice bunts, helping little old ladies cross streets.

 

Well that was the OLD thinking. No more sacrifice bunts, hitting behind to advance runners. #2 hitter should be our .......?

 

What the hell am I talking about? Focus, focus......

Edited July 27, 2017 by Nick

[Kimmi]

Ben was the ultimate #2 hitter in the lineup.

 

Hitting behind the runner, dropping sacrifice bunts, helping little old ladies cross streets.

 

Well that was the OLD thinking. No more sacrifice bunts, hitting behind to advance runners. #2 hitter should be our .......?

 

What the hell am I talking about? Focus, focus......

 

I have no clue what you're talking about.

[sk7326]

Ben was the ultimate #2 hitter in the lineup.

 

Hitting behind the runner, dropping sacrifice bunts, helping little old ladies cross streets.

 

Well that was the OLD thinking. No more sacrifice bunts, hitting behind to advance runners. #2 hitter should be our .......?

 

What the hell am I talking about? Focus, focus......

 

Our #2 hitter, like hitters #1-#9, should focus on not making outs. .347 OBP is not as amazing as I'd want - but fine.

[vjcsmoke]

Benitendi is having a solid rookie season. Not as awesome as expected but any rookie will have ups and downs.

 

Certainly the sun-bright glare of Aaron Judge's rookie season has him a shoe in for rookie of the year.

 

Anyways back to Devers. His power is the real deal. I could easily see him turning into a regular all-star at the 3rd base position if he continues on his current trajectory and just works on improving every day.

 

Yes 1st base is still a bit of a concern but not a huge one. Mitch Moreland has been solid if unspectacular. And HRam can cover 1st base at times.

 

We might need to upgrade in the future but it isn't a gaping chest wound like the 3rd base position was until we called up Devers.

[Nick]

I have no clue what you're talking about.

 

Ben was selfless. Ultimate team player. Insisted on building for future and kept the farm in tact. He knew he may lose his job over it but he did what was best for the future of Red Sox organization.

 

How is that?

[notin]

Ben was selfless. Ultimate team player. Insisted on building for future and kept the farm in tact. He knew he may lose his job over it but he did what was best for the future of Red Sox organization.

 

How is that?

 

That might be a bit far. I think he just figured he had more time to see his plan through.

 

And really, he did. Despite what his critics say, he wasn't fired. Dombrowski wanted him on board, presumably to draft and build the farm, which is something Dombrowski has only had limited success at throughout his career...

[moonslav59]

Ben was selfless. Ultimate team player. Insisted on building for future and kept the farm in tact. He knew he may lose his job over it but he did what was best for the future of Red Sox organization.

 

How is that?

 

Had HRam and Porcello had their 2016 seasons in 2015, Ben would still be here.

[a700hitter]

Benitendi is having a solid rookie season. Not as awesome as expected but any rookie will have ups and downs.

 

Certainly the sun-bright glare of Aaron Judge's rookie season has him a shoe in for rookie of the year.

 

Anyways back to Devers. His power is the real deal. I could easily see him turning into a regular all-star at the 3rd base position if he continues on his current trajectory and just works on improving every day.

 

Yes 1st base is still a bit of a concern but not a huge one. Mitch Moreland has been solid if unspectacular. And HRam can cover 1st base at times.

 

We might need to upgrade in the future but it isn't a gaping chest wound like the 3rd base position was until we called up Devers.

He was the ultimate incompetent, imo. He spent lots of money on payroll (always right up against the luxury tax threshold) and still managed to come in last place 3 times in 4 seasons. He threw away $300 million on Pablo, Hanley, Castillo and Craig with almost a zero return. Just a terrible record of incompetence.

[Bellhorn04]

Had HRam and Porcello had their 2016 seasons in 2015, Ben would still be here.

 

If if and buts were candy and nuts...

 

You could also argue that Ben was quite fortunate in 2013 with the years they got out of Victorino and Napoli and Drew, guys who then turned around and couldn't play or who stunk the very next year...

 

There's luck involved in being a GM without a doubt.

[a700hitter]

He's the coffee boy in Toronto now.

[jacksonianmarch]

The 2013 Red Sox were quite possibly the luckiest baseball team I have ever seen. Everywhere the sox turned, they seemed to get one last gasp out of a veteran who was on the outs. That just doesn't happen

[a700hitter]

The 2013 Red Sox were quite possibly the luckiest baseball team I have ever seen. Everywhere the sox turned, they seemed to get one last gasp out of a veteran who was on the outs. That just doesn't happen

It was a perfect season. All of our turds turned into golden eggs.

[cp176]

He was the ultimate incompetent, imo. He spent lots of money on payroll (always right up against the luxury tax threshold) and still managed to come in last place 3 times in 4 seasons. He threw away $300 million on Pablo, Hanley, Castillo and Craig with almost a zero return. Just a terrible record of incompetence.

 

All ist seems to take is some losing and the guys of the past just don't look so bad don't you think? The Sox are losing and oh would it be different if Ben was leading the way. i don't buy it at all! I wonder if this has ever happened before in boston? Oh yeah - guess it has.

[notin]

Ben was selfless. Ultimate team player. Insisted on building for future and kept the farm in tact. He knew he may lose his job over it but he did what was best for the future of Red Sox organization.

 

How is that?

 

That might be a bit far. I think he just figured he had more time to see his plan through.

 

And really, he did. Despite what his critics say, he wasn't fired. Dombrowski wanted him on board, presumably to draft and build the farm, which is something Dombrowski has only had limited success at throughout his career...

[notin]

If if and buts were candy and nuts...

 

You could also argue that Ben was quite fortunate in 2013 with the years they got out of Victorino and Napoli and Drew, guys who then turned around and couldn't play or who stunk the very next year...

 

There's luck involved in being a GM without a doubt.

 

Victorino and Drew were one season wonders. Napoli was definitely not. But his biggest impact signing that off-season was Uehara. ..

[jacksonianmarch]

Victorino too

[Larry Cook]

The 2013 Red Sox were quite possibly the luckiest baseball team I have ever seen. Everywhere the sox turned, they seemed to get one last gasp out of a veteran who was on the outs. That just doesn't happen

 

That team was built around depth, redundancy and experience. The luck was how healthy they were.

 

If dave was operating with even a hint of a plan like that, I would not be nearly as adamant about his removal.

[a700hitter]

That team was built around depth, redundancy and experience. The luck was how healthy they were.

 

If dave was operating with even a hint of a plan like that, I would not be nearly as adamant about his removal.

Where was that plan or strategy in 2012, '14 and '15?

[Larry Cook]

Where was that plan or strategy in 2012, '14 and '15?

 

I can't speak 2012, but in 2014 Ben tried to recreate the magic of 2013, but injuries caught up with the team.

 

In 2015, he then went to with youngsters and a few veterans. Unfortunately he never go a chance to finish.

[moonslav59]

It was a perfect season. All of our turds turned into golden eggs.

 

All the golden eggs turned to turds in 2014 is another way of looking at it.

[a700hitter]

I can't speak 2012, but in 2014 Ben tried to recreate the magic of 2013, but injuries caught up with the team.

 

In 2015, he then went to with youngsters and a few veterans. Unfortunately he never go a chance to finish.

He was just awful at putting together a viable pitching staff. Injuries don't land a championship team in last place.

[a700hitter]

All the golden eggs turned to turds in 2014 is another way of looking at it.

What about 2012 and 2015? Three years in last place is not a fluke.

[moonslav59]

What about 2012 and 2015? Three years in last place is not a fluke.

 

No, they were not.

 

The Sox made a lot of mistakes that went back even before Ben. We paid the price.

 

I will say that few expected last place finishes with those rosters, especially 2012's.

[Jasonbay44]

The 2013 team was definitely a fluke. A magical fluke , but it still was a fluke. Nothing wrong with that though, it still counts.

 

So many guys had career years out of nowhere. Mike Carp had the only good season of his career in 2013. Daniel Nava broke out, Koji was our what? 3rd? 4th? option as closer and one of most dominant season I've seen from a closer. Shane Victorino who was injury prone and appeared to be declining had the highest WAR season of his career (it was only good season during his Red Sox contract). Jonny Gomes - another mediocre player, was solid for us. So many random guys broke out, and it was a lot of luck and flukiness. Ill happily take the championship but lets be real.