Rafael Devers

[a700hitter]

Absolute nonsense. He won us a championship with brilliant signings. He left one of the best farms in baseball. Did he make some awful decisions? Sure. Did he have flaws? Absolutely. But to look back on what he did for our farm and the championship and call him awful smacks of a man utterly desperate to attack Ben for whatever reason, whenever possible. Having been a reader of this board for several years you seem to have a weird need to to say how terrible he was at every opportunity. When I first started reading the board there were personal arguments to wade through day in day out around the time of Fred. I sometimes wonder if there's hangover to that in people's need to constantly state a hyperbolic opinion on a matter.

 

 

 

And as if to prove the point...

 

Sure, nobody would want 5 championships every 10 years. Drivel.

You convinced me, but for the life of me I can't understand why such a superstar like Ben the Boob is only a Coffee Caddie now.

 

BYE we have 4 Championships in 10 years -- not 5.

 

Three years of last place was torturous for me, so I will not forget how bad he was any time soon. Also, we are still living with his financially disastrous contracts.

Edited August 1, 2017 by a700hitter

[Beaneater]

Devers is OPSing 1.231 with the big club.

 

His soft contact % is only 10.5.

 

He's been worth $4.7M in his first 6 games.

 

If we still had the old site, there'd be a Devers emoticon by now.

 

This kid is going to get rich. Bigly.

[Slasher9]

for the record....maybe we should give him more than a handful of games before we start building a wing in Cooperstown for him......

best regards,

Will Middlebrooks

[sk7326]

for the record....maybe we should give him more than a handful of games before we start building a wing in Cooperstown for him......

best regards,

Will Middlebrooks

 

Small sample sizes abound ... caution is warranted. A .471 BABIP ain't forever.

 

At the same time, his walk rate very early is 50% greater than anything Middlebrooks did. From watching, he has much better command of the strike zone as a 20 year old than Middlebrooks every had.

[Nick]

for the record....maybe we should give him more than a handful of games before we start building a wing in Cooperstown for him......

best regards,

Will Middlebrooks

 

Will's swing never looked like Devers.

[Hitch]

You convinced me, but for the life of me I can't understand why such a superstar like Ben the Boob is only a Coffee Caddie now.

 

BYE we have 4 Championships in 10 years -- not 5.

 

Three years of last place was torturous for me, so I will not forget how bad he was any time soon. Also, we are still living with his financially disastrous contracts.

 

 

Sorry the 5 was a typo. Yes the last places were awful. But give me the titles and the last places positions over finishing 2nd/3rd in the division and/or crashing out first round of the play offs. Every single time.

 

For an older fellow you can be incredibly immature in your arguments. Who has called him a superstar? And 'Ben the boob'? Try taking an argument at face value instead of straw-manning everything.

 

Maybe Ben was burnt by the experience and preferred a less stressful life. Maybe he loves/his wife/kids love the city he works in now. There are a great numerous reasons why he might have chosen the route he has. I may be wrong but wasn't he offered to come and talk about the Mariners and Phillies jobs at the time? And Cashman wanted to bring him to New York to work with him.

 

So I think we (you) should at least drop the line that he is some sort of outcast in baseball.

[Hitch]

Yup, Ben was a boob who should not be given any credit for the 2012 CC/Beckett/Agon dump as that was a "John Henry" move.

 

Ahh, the good ol' days. There hasn't been an entertaining fight on here in a long time.

 

Although, it's nice to not have to constantly read nonsense about guys like Carlos "Hi Ho" Silva. When you are complaining about guys that won't even make an opening day roster, you should probably just log off.

 

Those days were insane. I had just joined up at that point. It was entertaining introduction to the site.

[a700hitter]

Sorry the 5 was a typo. Yes the last places were awful. But give me the titles and the last places positions over finishing 2nd/3rd in the division and/or crashing out first round of the play offs. Every single time.

 

For an older fellow you can be incredibly immature in your arguments. Who has called him a superstar? And 'Ben the boob'? Try taking an argument at face value instead of straw-manning everything.

 

Maybe Ben was burnt by the experience and preferred a less stressful life. Maybe he loves/his wife/kids love the city he works in now. There are a great numerous reasons why he might have chosen the route he has. I may be wrong but wasn't he offered to come and talk about the Mariners and Phillies jobs at the time? And Cashman wanted to bring him to New York to work with him.

 

So I think we (you) should at least drop the line that he is some sort of outcast in baseball.

At least I did not disparage you as you did with me. And what is immature is this notion that winning a championship in the midst of 3 last place finishes is some kind of reasonable hypothetical that someone can opt for. I am entitled to my opinion, and as an older guy who has lived through all the ups and downs since 1967, it is my opinion that the 3 last place finishes with a $200 million payrolls was the worst job of any Red Sox GM in my lifetime. That's my opinion, and if you disagree, go tell it to someone else, because you are not going to convince me that Ben the Boob was not the worst. He is a coffee caddie right now, and that speaks volumes too. If Cashman wanted him, he may have heard about Ben's Macchiatos, but he wasn't bringing him in to be the GM.

[Hitch]

Yes, you certainly don't come across as a man that can have his mind changed by anything. I'm sure you think of this as a virtue.

[Spudboy]

A700 is entitled to his opinion.

 

I see no problem with how he views Bennie Boy. The guy made some really dumb ass moves during his tenure post-Theo.

 

Yes he did do some good. And several here bag lap him for it.

 

Bag lapping is no more appropriate than disparaging him.

 

I can't see how anyone would get their panties in a bunch over the topic.

[a700hitter]

Yes, you certainly don't come across as a man that can have his mind changed by anything. I'm sure you think of this as a virtue.

With regards to things as subjective as sports, it isn't easy to change my mind, because I have pretty good judgment and know the game very well. Changing my mind when I know that I am right would not be a virtue.

[notin]

You convinced me, but for the life of me I can't understand why such a superstar like Ben the Boob is only a Coffee Caddie now.

 

BYE we have 4 Championships in 10 years -- not 5.

 

Three years of last place was torturous for me, so I will not forget how bad he was any time soon. Also, we are still living with his financially disastrous contracts.

 

Actually"coffee boy" Ben Cherington is the Vice President of Baseball Operations in Toronto, the same job held by Allan Baird, another former GM, holds in Boston. In fact, the Sox probably employ. more former GMs than any other team. And that they all took non-GM jobs doesn't necessarily mean they were incompetent.

[a700hitter]

Actually"coffee boy" Ben Cherington is the Vice President of Baseball Operations in Toronto, the same job held by Allan Baird, another former GM, holds in Boston. In fact, the Sox probably employ. more former GMs than any other team. And that they all took non-GM jobs doesn't necessarily mean they were incompetent.

I hope they make him GM. It will make things easier for DD who can't seem to compete with Cashman.

 

BTW: I prefer the term Coffee Caddie.

[Kimmi]

There's a difference between panic move and necessary move. A lot of crap happens that forces moves that weren't in the original plan. IMHO.

 

I agree. I just don't think that at the time the move was made that it was 'necessary'.

[Kimmi]

As always, a "panic move" is any move that a poster doesn't agree with.

 

I don't think the Sox have made any panic moves this year. The last potential panic move was the deal for Pomeranz, but that was a move strictly to get Ortiz one last playoff run. Too bad he didn't pitch last year the way he is doing now.

 

Not true, because I didn't necessarily disagree with it. I never said it was the wrong move.

[Kimmi]

Absolute nonsense. He won us a championship with brilliant signings. He left one of the best farms in baseball. Did he make some awful decisions? Sure. Did he have flaws? Absolutely. But to look back on what he did for our farm and the championship and call him awful smacks of a man utterly desperate to attack Ben for whatever reason, whenever possible. Having been a reader of this board for several years you seem to have a weird need to to say how terrible he was at every opportunity. When I first started reading the board there were personal arguments to wade through day in day out around the time of Fred. I sometimes wonder if there's hangover to that in people's need to constantly state a hyperbolic opinion on a matter.

 

 

 

And as if to prove the point...

 

Sure, nobody would want 5 championships every 10 years. Drivel.

 

Thank you.

[Kimmi]

Small sample sizes abound ... caution is warranted. A .471 BABIP ain't forever.

 

At the same time, his walk rate very early is 50% greater than anything Middlebrooks did. From watching, he has much better command of the strike zone as a 20 year old than Middlebrooks every had.

 

I liked Middlebrooks, but two things that were concerning regarding him. One was his K/W ratio. The other is when he stated, as a rookie playing on a team in a pennant race, that he 'lost the fire'. That comment has always bothered me.

[Bellhorn04]

Absolute nonsense. He won us a championship with brilliant signings.

 

It's questionable whether the signings of Victorino, Napoli, Drew, Gomes and Dempster were 'brilliant', although they certainly worked out well in 2013 - not so much after that.

 

The signing of Koji was a great move, but Ben also had misses on Bailey, Hanrahan and Melancon.

 

Ben was a total mixed bag - some good, some bad.

[jad]

Since "small sample size" is, I see, now the answer of choice to any and all arguments, I suppose then "Well, 3 out of 4 years in last place is too small a sample size to be significant... only 4, you see ... but championships! They're forever!"

[Bellhorn04]

Since "small sample size" is, I see, now the answer of choice to any and all arguments, I suppose then "Well, 3 out of 4 years in last place is too small a sample size to be significant... only 4, you see ... but championships! They're forever!"

 

4 years isn't a small sample size because it's 648 games.

[mvp 78]

1.214 OPS through first 7 games. He has reached base each game. No big deal.

[Bellhorn04]

Hail Raffy!

[Slasher9]

Actually"coffee boy" Ben Cherington is the Vice President of Baseball Operations in Toronto, the same job held by Allan Baird, another former GM, holds in Boston. In fact, the Sox probably employ. more former GMs than any other team. And that they all took non-GM jobs doesn't necessarily mean they were incompetent.

 

yup. exhibit #1: just look at our first base coach.

[a700hitter]

yup. exhibit #1: just look at our first base coach.

Yes, the equipment caddie at first base.

[mvp 78]

Yes, the equipment caddie at first base.

 

Exhibit B for that stupid triple play earlier in the year.

[a700hitter]

Exhibit B for that stupid triple play earlier in the year.

That was a memorable play. The coaches stood there like dopes with their mouths open.

[mvp 78]

That was a memorable play. The coaches stood there like dopes with their mouths open.

 

All dummy had to do was say, "Jackie, run through the bag."

[Slasher9]

All dummy had to do was say, "Jackie, run through the bag."

come on. really? these are MLB players. they need to have the first base coach tell them to "run through the bag" on a batted ball?

there are things to crucify the former Philles GM for....this is not one of them.

[illinoisredsox]

All dummy had to do was say, "Jackie, run through the bag."

 

A coach at the junior high level shouldn't have to do that, much less at the big league level. That screw up was on JBJ, pure and simple (okay, the real screwup was on the umps for not calling the infield fly in the first place). Just like Betts forgetting how many outs there were the other night.

[sk7326]

Since "small sample size" is, I see, now the answer of choice to any and all arguments, I suppose then "Well, 3 out of 4 years in last place is too small a sample size to be significant... only 4, you see ... but championships! They're forever!"

 

lot of personnel changes between those years - both with Boston and its opponents. 162 is a large enough sample - but every season is its own story ultimately. The sample size argument only really holds if the variables are relatively similar.

 

2012 - Everybody was hurt

2014 - Nobody could hit

2015 - Nobody could pitch

 

Every season is its own story

Edited August 2, 2017 by sk7326