Red Sox acquire Wilson Contreras From Cardinals

[Hugh2]

7 hours ago, notin said:

Contreras is a good get.  He’s top 5 or 6 in just about every offensive metric among first basemen. 
 

See? We don’t need Alonso…

I mean, Alonso was my first choice but I could like Contreras more if it mean they’re going to go out and get one of Bregman/Bichette/Marte

[Hugh2]

1 hour ago, Hitch said:

I'm sad to lose Dobbins, I had a real soft spot for that kid, but I really like getting Contreras. You won't find a Cards fan that has anything but good words about him. Leadership, good player both offensively and defensively. Works nicely for me.  Somewhat surprised Dobbins wasn't enough on his own, but it's not like we didn't have pitching to spare. 

You'd think we need to go out and get Bregman, Bo, or Marte now and we're in good shape with veteran leadership as well as youthful energy.  But the first two would put us over the 2nd line, so is unlikely unless we can free up money somehow. And I would think we're not sending Tolle or Early anywhere now, so Marte feels unlikely too. 

Not sure what this means for Casas...starting in AAA is my bet. I really wonder what happens with Duran/Abreu, too 

Overall, very happy with this move, but a lot of questions remain.

 

I think they still have to trade from their outfield surplus.  Duran, Rafaela, Anthony, and Abreu.  I think you got to view those 4 as starters and trade one not named Anthony.  Rafaela/Duran saves you $6.25/$7.7 in money so those two make the most sense.

you could logically trade one of those guys for a prospect haul to restock your farm and use the savings to invest in a Bichette/Bregman FA.  I’d still be interested in Marte, but I wonder if the Sox can stomach a further depletion of the farm and given the cost to acquire talent you’d think Marte would cost a random. 
really makes me think what Duran could get them in a return.

theres been a lot of speculation about whether or not Casas is going to be ready by opening day.  I think this seals his fate in WOO.  If the stay is long enough the Sox will gain an extra year of control.  Casas will need to hit his way back……and I hope he does

[UtahSox]

30 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I think they still have to trade from their outfield surplus.  Duran, Rafaela, Anthony, and Abreu.  I think you got to view those 4 as starters and trade one not named Anthony.  Rafaela/Duran saves you $6.25/$7.7 in money so those two make the most sense.

you could logically trade one of those guys for a prospect haul to restock your farm and use the savings to invest in a Bichette/Bregman FA.  I’d still be interested in Marte, but I wonder if the Sox can stomach a further depletion of the farm and given the cost to acquire talent you’d think Marte would cost a random. 
really makes me think what Duran could get them in a return.

theres been a lot of speculation about whether or not Casas is going to be ready by opening day.  I think this seals his fate in WOO.  If the stay is long enough the Sox will gain an extra year of control.  Casas will need to hit his way back……and I hope he does

Not if you’re trying win a World Series in 2026. You don’t trade a gold glove CFer or 4.7 WAR player for 2029 prospects in the midst of a World Series run. You need value back. I think you’re gonna need all 4 OFers. Unless it makes you drastically better. 

[Hugh2]

26 minutes ago, UtahSox said:

Not if you’re trying win a World Series in 2026. You don’t trade a gold glove CFer or 4.7 WAR player for 2029 prospects in the midst of a World Series run. You need value back. I think you’re gonna need all 4 OFers. Unless it makes you drastically better. 

Ok, so then you trade Duran. 

You don't need a starter sitting the bench when you have holes elsewhere on the roster. 

Also, teams that win the world series typically make moves at the deadline.  Craig is obviously not afraid to make moves, if given the green light by managment I would like him to have som ammunition in July. 

 

[Hugh2]

You have 4 starting caliber players for 3 positions.  I don't understand the "you don't do this" argument when that's literally what you do.  That's what teams do, when they have surplus they trade it. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Glad Brez read my posts about trading 5 young pitchers for Gray and Contreras from St. Loo. 

I expected pushback here for losing Yoiker, but getting a legit big league bat for a teenage pitcher is the obligation of any CBO/GM. 

But don't stop there. Nightengale reports this trade now takes Boston out of the Marte sweepstakes -- why? Contreras isn't a second baseman, and nobody else is a primary 2B on the MLB roster.

If I buy a big salty pretzel at a ballgame, does that mean I no longer need a beer to wash it down? 

[Hugh2]

1 minute ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Glad Brez read my posts about trading 5 young pitchers for Gray and Contreras from St. Loo. 

I expected pushback here for losing Yoiker, but getting a legit big league bat for a teenage pitcher is the obligation of any CBO/GM. 

But don't stop there. Nightengale reports this trade now takes Boston out of the Marte sweepstakes -- why? Contreras isn't a second baseman, and nobody else is a primary 2B on the MLB roster.

If I buy a big salty pretzel at a ballgame, does that mean I no longer need a beer to wash it down? 

They probably want to spread out how the aquire talent.  They've already used up a lot of prospect capital this offseason, so it could be a signal that they're ready to spend on and IF.....or not. 

[WoxburyWommunityWollege]

10 hours ago, Randy Red Sox said:

for not much but heck they didn't get much

Over the past three seasons Pete Alonso has put up 8.5 fWAR.  Willson Contreras has put up 8.3.  Alonso has obviously been more durable but Contreras's biggest injury issues have been from when he was catching.

11 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

But don't stop there. Nightengale reports this trade now takes Boston out of the Marte sweepstakes -- why? Contreras isn't a second baseman, and nobody else is a primary 2B on the MLB roster.

What do you want the org to do with Marcelo Mayer?  Dude needs to play somewhere, and if they re-sign Bregman then 2B is Mayer's only position.

[notin]

10 hours ago, alsoason said:

Sounds like a lets  tread water move, not make waves which is what they need, count us as not impressed. Wake us when they get serious.

Tread water?  He will play 1b.  Most plate appearances for the Sox last year went to Abraham Toro and Romy Gonzalez…

[notin]

12 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Glad Brez read my posts about trading 5 young pitchers for Gray and Contreras from St. Loo. 

I expected pushback here for losing Yoiker, but getting a legit big league bat for a teenage pitcher is the obligation of any CBO/GM. 

But don't stop there. Nightengale reports this trade now takes Boston out of the Marte sweepstakes -- why? Contreras isn't a second baseman, and nobody else is a primary 2B on the MLB roster.

If I buy a big salty pretzel at a ballgame, does that mean I no longer need a beer to wash it down? 

And others of us have been saying for a while that the Sox are going to deal a couple of those 14 starting pitchers on the 40 man.  They actually almost had to.

Id think unless the Sox cannot afford to give up any more pitching (which I doubt), tjis should push them deeper after Marte and take them out of the Bregman market…

[Hugh2]

1 minute ago, notin said:

And others of us have been saying for a while that the Sox are going to deal a couple of those 14 starting pitchers on the 40 man.  They actually almost had to.

Id think unless the Sox cannot afford to give up any more pitching (which I doubt), tjis should push them deeper after Marte and take them out of the Bregman market…

Reportedly they're out of the Marte market after trading for Contreras.  Leading me to believe they're more in on Bregman than Marte. 

[Bellhorn04]

1 hour ago, Hugh2 said:

You have 4 starting caliber players for 3 positions.  I don't understand the "you don't do this" argument when that's literally what you do.  That's what teams do, when they have surplus they trade it. 

It's just that Duran has been our best and most durable player the last 2 years.  Trading surplus doesn't usually mean trading your best player.  

[Old Red]

As I said before Contreras is better than what they had before, and he will help. He doesn’t carry Flintstone’s, or Alonso’s bat, and most importantly he doesn’t have the PriceTag the other two have, and that’s why he’s here, and neither of the other two are. Also only has only two more years left on his contract, which is also very important to the club. He’ll help, but I’d rather have ALONSO.

[Old Red]

53 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Reportedly they're out of the Marte market after trading for Contreras.  Leading me to believe they're more in on Bregman than Marte. 

I think they’ve always been in on Bregman, but years is still the Big sticking point.

[Old Red]

6 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

It's just that Duran has been our best and most durable player the last 2 years.  Trading surplus doesn't usually mean trading your best player.  

Losing Duran, or keeping Duran is not going to make, or break the ball club IMo.if you can improve the ball club in other areas, which improves the ball club you do it.

[Hugh2]

10 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

It's just that Duran has been our best and most durable player the last 2 years.  Trading surplus doesn't usually mean trading your best player.  

I've been pretty clear on it not having to be Duran, but having 4 starting caliber outfielders and only 2 - 2/3 infielders makes the solution pretty obvious. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

1 hour ago, WoxburyWommunityWollege said:

Over the past three seasons Pete Alonso has put up 8.5 fWAR.  Willson Contreras has put up 8.3.  Alonso has obviously been more durable but Contreras's biggest injury issues have been from when he was catching.

What do you want the org to do with Marcelo Mayer?  Dude needs to play somewhere, and if they re-sign Bregman then 2B is Mayer's only position.

Welcome to Talk Sox!

[Hitch]

2 hours ago, Hugh2 said:

I think they still have to trade from their outfield surplus.  Duran, Rafaela, Anthony, and Abreu.  I think you got to view those 4 as starters and trade one not named Anthony.  Rafaela/Duran saves you $6.25/$7.7 in money so those two make the most sense.

you could logically trade one of those guys for a prospect haul to restock your farm and use the savings to invest in a Bichette/Bregman FA.  I’d still be interested in Marte, but I wonder if the Sox can stomach a further depletion of the farm and given the cost to acquire talent you’d think Marte would cost a random. 
really makes me think what Duran could get them in a return.

theres been a lot of speculation about whether or not Casas is going to be ready by opening day.  I think this seals his fate in WOO.  If the stay is long enough the Sox will gain an extra year of control.  Casas will need to hit his way back……and I hope he does

I think we're pretty much at the first limit now? Which gives us $20m until they go over the second limit. I'm not sure clearing Duran's $7.7m gets you the money needed for Bo or Bregman's AAV. It would be tight. But that would give us zero room to make mid season trade moves unless we're shipping money away and would mean the bullpen is now what it is. 

So if we're going down the Bregman or Bo route, it seems to me that other cost savings are going to be found. Not sure what they will be but I've already said I'd trade Bello and Duran for Ragans if the Royals were takers, which would free up $14m if memory serves, while giving us a stellar rotation.

The dream of course, is somehow finding way to get most of Yoshida's money off the books. Even half would be a big help. But despite Moon putting him in every trade deal proposal, I just don't see us getting it done. If we did get it done, I'm good keeping Duran and cycling the outfielders around the DH spot.

 

[Hitch]

2 hours ago, WoxburyWommunityWollege said:

 

What do you want the org to do with Marcelo Mayer?  Dude needs to play somewhere, and if they re-sign Bregman then 2B is Mayer's only position.

I'm really uneasy with us leaning into the idea of Mayer being a full time starter at any position right now. He;s got a lot still left to prove and develop. That said, unless Romy gets the nod at 2nd or 3rd, it's looking like Mayer's to run with due to our financial constraints. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

2 hours ago, WoxburyWommunityWollege said:

What do you want the org to do with Marcelo Mayer?  Dude needs to play somewhere, and if they re-sign Bregman then 2B is Mayer's only position.

I'd like the best defense, which is Bregman at third, Mayer at shortstop, and Story at second. Mayer has a better arm than Story, who looked really good at second base his first season in Boston. 

[Deja Doh]

10 hours ago, JoeBrady said:

I understand that.  You only look at BB card numbers, and only at two of the numbers on the back of the card.  Some people think there is more to BB.

This may be the dumbest intentional slight I have read on this message board and there are a lot of dumb ones.  Home runs and RBIs don't lie.  Contreras is effectively 34 years old.  If he was still a catcher, okay maybe an upgrade at that position.  Is he an upgrade over Casas at 1st base, yes (why was Casas not traded)?  But he's at best, 2/3 of an Alonso.  24 hrs 7 seasons ago is his high.   

[Deja Doh]

3 hours ago, Hugh2 said:

I mean, Alonso was my first choice but I could like Contreras more if it mean they’re going to go out and get one of Bregman/Bichette/Marte

Why not bring back Bregman and also sign Bichette?  We need players that can hit, not players that may learn how to hit.

[Hitch]

1 minute ago, Deja Doh said:

Why not bring back Bregman and also sign Bichette?  We need players that can hit, not players that may learn how to hit.

And sign Suarez. And Tucker. 

Cheap bastards. 

[Hugh2]

5 minutes ago, Deja Doh said:

Why not bring back Bregman and also sign Bichette?  We need players that can hit, not players that may learn how to hit.

There's no way in heck that's going to happen.  Lets not be unrealistic.  One is long shot enough at this point. 

Also, despite it being controversial here, I want Mayer to play I want room for the youngsters to grow alongside some Vets added to the lineup.  Contreras and Bregman fit the bill to go along with Roman Anthony/Marcel Mayer. 

[Old Red]

6 minutes ago, Deja Doh said:

Why not bring back Bregman and also sign Bichette?  We need players that can hit, not players that may learn how to hit.

Money, Money, and more MONEY.

[JoeBrady]

4 hours ago, Hitch said:

I had a real soft spot for that kid

It's good for him.  I'm not sure he'd even be getting many ST starts.  He actually has a shot at the rotation now.

[Old Red]

1 minute ago, Hugh2 said:

There's no way in heck that's going to happen.  Lets not be unrealistic.  One is long shot enough at this point. 

Also, despite it being controversial here, I want Mayer to play I want room for the youngsters to grow alongside some Vets added to the lineup.  Contreras and Bregman fit the bill to go along with Roman Anthony/Marcel Mayer. 

I would roll the dice, and put Mayer at SS, but only if he’s going to play everyday. Signing FA is a way to go like Bregman, but it’s also expensive for a longer period of time, and I think that’s the big hang up right now with doing so.

[Larry Cook]

4 hours ago, Hitch said:

 

Not sure what this means for Casas...starting in AAA is my bet. 

 

Patella tendon injuries take a long time to heal!  Maybe a year in Worcester, playing everyday, is what Casas needs to get his confidence and timing back 

[Hitch]

9 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

It's good for him.  I'm not sure he'd even be getting many ST starts.  He actually has a shot at the rotation now.

You're not wrong. 

[Hitch]

Just now, Larry Cook said:

Patella tendon injuries take a long time to heal!  Maybe a year in Worcester, playing everyday, is what Casas needs to get his confidence and timing back 

Yeah, I can see him getting a couple of month in AAA at least. And as you say - it's what the kid needs.