Red Sox sign Alex Bregman

[moonslav59]

31 minutes ago, Hitch said:

Casas has obviously gone out to bat for Devers then let his mouth run off with him. I find him a very difficult person to like. Basing it on how many times Cortillo and McAdams have said we've tried to trade him this off season, I'd guess there's a few in the FO that feel the same say.

Maybe they try harder to trade him, now.

[harmony]

28 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Maybe they try harder to trade him, now.

Would anyone trade Triston Casas to the Los Angeles Angels for catcher Logan O'Hoppe?

Baseball Trade Values assigns surplus values of $29.8 million for Casas and $23.4 million for O'Hoppe.

Casas and O'Hoppe, who were born less than a month apart, each come with four years of team control. ZiPS projects Casas with three-year WAR of 1.5, 1.5 and 1.7, while projecting O'Hoppe with three-year WAR of 2.6, 2.6 and 2.6.

In November the Angels signed veteran catcher Travis d'Arnaud, whom ZiPS projects with a 2025 WAR of 2.0 in 87 games.

[moonslav59]

26 minutes ago, harmony said:

Would anyone trade Triston Casas to the Los Angeles Angels for catcher Logan O'Hoppe?

Baseball Trade Values assigns surplus values of $29.8 million for Casas and $23.4 million for O'Hoppe.

Casas and O'Hoppe, who were born less than a month apart, each come with four years of team control. ZiPS projects Casas with three-year WAR of 1.5, 1.5 and 1.7, while projecting O'Hoppe with three-year WAR of 2.6, 2.6 and 2.6.

In November the Angels signed veteran catcher Travis d'Arnaud, whom ZiPS projects with a 2025 WAR of 2.0 in 87 games.

I'd think long and hard about it and as much as I think Casas will break out, this year, the injury and our need for catching is too great. It also offers Devers a non DH landing spot (1B) and keeps Yoshida and Ref away from the OF. It also makes calling up Anthony more likely.

[FredLynn]

3 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

It's too bad the mood of Sox nation went from pretty upbeat over the Bregman, Crochet and other additions to this.

The FO did the job imo. It would have been better had they signed a more productive RHH but Bregman is ok. I believe he had an off first half but was better in the second half. They improved their SPing and should score a bunch of runs if they can stay healthy. The pen is always a crapshoot. At least they’re trying. It’s not a championship caliber team yet but they have several very good prospects nearly ready to make the jump. Henry finally loosened his purse strings. 
I don’t see this controversy as a major problem.

[moonslav59]

7 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

The FO did the job imo. It would have been better had they signed a more productive RHH but Bregman is ok. 

Bregman has much of his value in his defense, leadership and intangible skills. He makes most of the players around him better.

He's not the big RHB we wanted or needed, although he could bust out in Fenway.

We need to maximize every 400 million pennies we are paying him. Third Base.

[FredLynn]

22 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Bregman has much of his value in his defense, leadership and intangible skills. He makes most of the players around him better.

He's not the big RHB we wanted or needed, although he could bust out in Fenway.

We need to maximize every 400 million pennies we are paying him. Third Base.

I believe his OPS at Fenway is  1.240 though it’s only in 21 games. I too would have preferred more power. Vlad is a FA after this year. He’d be someone worth pursuing. Still, I expect a decent improvement over the past few years performances.
 

[Jasonbay44]

2 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Maybe they try harder to trade him, now.

If Vladdy Jr actually wants to come to Boston, maybe they trade Casas next off season. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Two contrasting channels on New England TV last night:

One had sports reporters ripping Casas for having the gall to give his opinion on who should play where on his team. One guy actually said something like, "What has he ever done that gives him the right to say anything?"

The other was NESN'S Red Sox Report with Tom Caron and Lou Merloni interviewing Casas and literally asking his opinion on Devers. And OMG, Triston had the gall to answer the question...

[Old Red]

21 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Two contrasting channels on New England TV last night:

One had sports reporters ripping Casas for having the gall to give his opinion on who should play where on his team. One guy actually said something like, "What has he ever done that gives him the right to say anything?"

The other was NESN'S Red Sox Report with Tom Caron and Lou Merloni interviewing Casas and literally asking his opinion on Devers. And OMG, Triston had the gall to answer the question...

Yes I heard both. NESN is the Red Sox station, and the other one is not. NESN, and TC are nowhere near as opinionated as the other station.

[notin]

9 hours ago, harmony said:

Would anyone trade Triston Casas to the Los Angeles Angels for catcher Logan O'Hoppe?

Baseball Trade Values assigns surplus values of $29.8 million for Casas and $23.4 million for O'Hoppe.

Casas and O'Hoppe, who were born less than a month apart, each come with four years of team control. ZiPS projects Casas with three-year WAR of 1.5, 1.5 and 1.7, while projecting O'Hoppe with three-year WAR of 2.6, 2.6 and 2.6.

In November the Angels signed veteran catcher Travis d'Arnaud, whom ZiPS projects with a 2025 WAR of 2.0 in 87 games.

I would trade Casas for O’Hoppe in a minute, and it has nothing to do with this silly, overblown, media-fueled controversy that will bring itself to a satisfactory conclusion long before the first meaningful game is played…

[Hitch]

17 minutes ago, notin said:

I would trade Casas for O’Hoppe in a minute, and it has nothing to do with this silly, overblown, media-fueled controversy that will bring itself to a satisfactory conclusion long before the first meaningful game is played…

And force Devers to 1st? Or make other moves?

[notin]

10 minutes ago, Hitch said:

And force Devers to 1st? Or make other moves?

I’m not fully onboard with this being some insane blowup Cora can’t handle.  I’ve seen how the media likes to take charge in driving stories before.

Ive said all along, Bregman will start at second and eventually make his way over to third.  This is a Cora team - positions are fluid.

The reason I trade Casas for O’Hoppe is simply because good catchers are harder to find than good first basemen…

[Hitch]

6 minutes ago, notin said:

I’m not fully onboard with this being some insane blowup Cora can’t handle.  I’ve seen how the media likes to take charge in driving stories before.

Ive said all along, Bregman will start at second and eventually make his way over to third.  This is a Cora team - positions are fluid.

The reason I trade Casas for O’Hoppe is simply because good catchers are harder to find than good first basemen…

My post wasn't aimed at conversation around the fuss we're currently seeing, I'm simply curious about what you do next after that trade? I would do the trade, too, and I haven't been able to make up my mind whether I'd make another move for a 1st baseman or move Devers over there and be less a power bat (and possibly have a grumpy Devers).

[mvp 78]

13 minutes ago, notin said:

I’m not fully onboard with this being some insane blowup Cora can’t handle.  I’ve seen how the media likes to take charge in driving stories before.

Ive said all along, Bregman will start at second and eventually make his way over to third.  This is a Cora team - positions are fluid.

The reason I trade Casas for O’Hoppe is simply because good catchers are harder to find than good first basemen…

It was a story on Monday a non-issue in camp on Tuesday. Day three, it's just a talking point that everyone else is running with. Seems to not have any traction within the clubhouse. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

18 minutes ago, notin said:

The reason I trade Casas for O’Hoppe is simply because good catchers are harder to find than good first basemen…

The reason I don't trade Casas yet is because of the second-half of his 2023 rookie year: .317/1.034, 15 HRs.

If he can put together an entire injury-free season and become a full-time .300 batter with 30 bombs and a .900 OPS, then he's a keeper to build around... and there's no need for more costly middle-of-the-order bats. 

I don't trade that potential to fill lesser needs or to get rid of a free agent signing mistake from a previous regime or because he's an intelligent individual who doesn't speak in cliches. 

The Red Sox are improving, but this guy is worth waiting another season for, to see if he'll be part of the core.

[moonslav59]

10 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

The reason I don't trade Casas yet is because of the second-half of his 2023 rookie year: .317/1.034, 15 HRs.

If he can put together an entire injury-free season and become a full-time .300 batter with 30 bombs and a .900 OPS, then he's a keeper to build around... and there's no need for more costly middle-of-the-order bats. 

I don't trade that potential to fill lesser needs or to get rid of a free agent signing mistake from a previous regime or because he's an intelligent individual who doesn't speak in cliches. 

The Red Sox are improving, but this guy is worth waiting another season for, to see if he'll be part of the core.

Or, wait till he has the monster 2025 season, builds value, then trade him.

[Bellhorn04]

24 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

It was a story on Monday a non-issue in camp on Tuesday. Day three, it's just a talking point that everyone else is running with. Seems to not have any traction within the clubhouse. 

The fuss is over the top, but the "who plays where" riddles are real.

[Bellhorn04]

3 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Or, wait till he has the monster 2025 season, builds value, then trade him.

The way us modern fans have been conditioned to think.  Hoping players will play great so they will build trade value or opt out.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

3 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Or, wait till he has the monster 2025 season, builds value, then trade him.

If Casas becomes a legit middle-of-the-order monster, why trade him at his current salary?

Even if the Sox get uncomfortable and extend him for market value, it presumably will be a fraction of what bad Vlad wants -- the guy some fans covet instead.

[moonslav59]

12 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

If Casas becomes a legit middle-of-the-order monster, why trade him at his current salary?

Even if the Sox get uncomfortable and extend him for market value, it presumably will be a fraction of what bad Vlad wants -- the guy some fans covet instead.

Because management does not like to be criticized by an employee.

Because his injury history is real.

Because we won't be handing him away for nothing. We'd fill another big need via trade.

Because maybe Devers plays 1B and Yoshida DH (not LF.)

Because we have already heard trading him was being looked at.

I'm not for trading Casas just for the sake of trading him. It's not a dump deal. I'm projecting a bustout year for Casas and have said, recently, I would not trade one of our best batters vs LHPs, this winter. Depending on what shakes out with Devers (DH, 3B or 1B,) maybe the dynamic changes. Maybe Vladdy does become a target. Maybe....

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

I think the big question is - will bregman be bringing a trash can with him now that he's reunited with cora.

[Jasonbay44]

I think Devers comments are being blown out of proportion and aren’t a real issue. When Story was signed, someone asked Bogaerts if he would be moving to 2nd or 3rd and he gave a similar answer that Devers did. It was talked about for a few days and was never an issue.

 

I think part of the reason the media is taking about this so much is the complete pause in other sports right now. NHL/NBA are on a break for all star break and 4 nations tournament and NFL season hasn’t even hit free agency yet. 
 

I turned on ESPN this morning and so little has happened in sports the past few days, they were still discussing Ja Morants tweets about the dunk contest from Saturday night. 

[mvp 78]

2 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

The fuss is over the top, but the "who plays where" riddles are real.

I get the conversation about the roster manipulations. However, most of the handwringing now is about Raffy and Cora's comments. 

[jad]

19 hours ago, FredLynn said:

Of course I have. Many times, including personally. There are usually consequences for screwing up in life.

OK.  We have different experiences; I've had lots of colleagues and superiors who claimed to teach me (or have taught me) a lesson, and I guarantee you, I did NOT ever 'learn' to their satisfaction.   As for others on the receiving end , the only thing I've ever seen is increased anger and resentment;  'learning'? never (unless by 'learning'  you mean reactions like 'I realize now my boss is a jerk'; 'now I see my employer doesn't give a cr*p about me'; or 'OK, your paygrade is higher than mine. So f. you'. or 'I'll do it, but real real real slow' or 'whaddya gonna do, fire me?'   Things like that.

[StephenCurry30]

Bregman definitely increases the look factor. He is a good looking dude 

[moonslav59]

51 minutes ago, jad said:

OK.  We have different experiences; I've had lots of colleagues and superiors who claimed to teach me (or have taught me) a lesson, and I guarantee you, I did NOT ever 'learn' to their satisfaction.   As for others on the receiving end , the only thing I've ever seen is increased anger and resentment;  'learning'? never (unless by 'learning'  you mean reactions like 'I realize now my boss is a jerk'; 'now I see my employer doesn't give a cr*p about me'; or 'OK, your paygrade is higher than mine. So f. you'. or 'I'll do it, but real real real slow' or 'whaddya gonna do, fire me?'   Things like that.

While humiliating someone is not a good teaching practice, I have learned from being humiliated, at times.

[FredLynn]

3 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

While humiliating someone is not a good teaching practice, I have learned from being humiliated, at times.

You don’t have to humiliate someone to punish them. There have for example been a couple of times when my performance wasn’t as expected by my employer so they docked me some of my bonus. I have seen other employees be put on probation or be assigned less desirable job assignments.

Ghis stuff happens all the time. A combination of the “ carrot and the stick” is probably the most effective way to modify behavior.

[moonslav59]

38 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

You don’t have to humiliate someone to punish them. There have for example been a couple of times when my performance wasn’t as expected by my employer so they docked me some of my bonus. I have seen other employees be put on probation or be assigned less desirable job assignments.

Ghis stuff happens all the time. A combination of the “ carrot and the stick” is probably the most effective way to modify behavior.

Agreed,

Humiliation is  not an effective or defensible teaching technique. My point was that I have learned from being humiliated, sometime all by myself.

[Hitch]

21 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

The reason I don't trade Casas yet is because of the second-half of his 2023 rookie year: .317/1.034, 15 HRs.

If he can put together an entire injury-free season and become a full-time .300 batter with 30 bombs and a .900 OPS, then he's a keeper to build around... and there's no need for more costly middle-of-the-order bats. 

I don't trade that potential to fill lesser needs or to get rid of a free agent signing mistake from a previous regime or because he's an intelligent individual who doesn't speak in cliches. 

Where's the evidence he is an intelligent individual? All I see is a kid that will give his opinion on anything at anytime of the day. In my experience those people tend not to be most intelligent people you bump into on a daily basis. 

And let's look into his latest opinions. He's either wanting to step up for Devers (I believe this less and less) but couldn't stop himself going further, in which he treated us all (a player who's achieved exactly nothing) to what was best for the club, for Bregman (a player he isn't fit to lace the boots of) and told three highly rated prospects they're not good enough. Or, as I think is more and more likely, he's trying to make sure he doesn't lose his 1B job and is willing to throw anyone and everyone to the wolves to keep it. I don't imagine he's hugely popular with some of his teammates right now.

Half this board has been up in arms (probably rightly) about the way the media were trying to bait Devers (and now Casas) into saying things. Well, there's a reason players speak in cliches. Casas either doesn't understand that, or just doesn't give a damn. Regardless this doesn't show him in the best light. It might show him in the correct one, though.

And lastly, a lot of reputation has been built off that stretch in 2023, but seeing as this organisation has been more-or-less obsessed with cost controlled players, you have to ask why they have been so active in trying to trade a guy with the future you believe he has? I think it's because he is wholly disliked by Cora in particular, but others, too. And I don't think it's down to intelligence. I think it's down to a stunning lack of self-awareness and arrogance. 

[Hugh2]

23 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Two contrasting channels on New England TV last night:

One had sports reporters ripping Casas for having the gall to give his opinion on who should play where on his team. One guy actually said something like, "What has he ever done that gives him the right to say anything?"

The other was NESN'S Red Sox Report with Tom Caron and Lou Merloni interviewing Casas and literally asking his opinion on Devers. And OMG, Triston had the gall to answer the question...

There’s a difference between having an opinion and going against the team.  If they’ve already decided Bregman is the 3B then his comments are even worse than Devers IMO. 
 

We dont know what they’re being told, perhaps Casas and the team haven’t been told it’s a forgone conclusion that Devers is at DH. But if they have been? Then Casas can’t be saying things like that