A Realistic View of 2024: Part II

[notin]

Sure, but both teams get that runner in the 10th, so there's no advantage to either.

 

It becomes one of you get through the ninth and still have your best reliever. This isn’t a Cora criticism specifically since most (all?) managers do it. But it seems like too many manage the game now as if they didn’t know the ghost runner was coming.

 

It also depends who is coming up. Last night, Cora brought in Jansen to face the 6-7-possible 8 hitters with no one on and one out. The leaves very little margin for error for the tenth. If Jansen gets the first two, the 8-9-1 hitters come up in the 10th, which isn’t bad. But if he lets one or more runners on, that inning gets increasingly difficult for a lesser reliever.

 

The ghost runner has been around a long time now. And while it’s a dumb rule, it’s apparently not going away. But outside of road teams that don’t score using an IBB to set up a double play, there hasn’t been much in the way of strategies to handle this situation…

[mvp 78]

We did a pretty good job preventing runs, until the 10th inning, last night- thanks to our pitching.

 

We're you watching the same game as I was? There were several miscues. Reyes couldn't come up with an easy grounder. Hamilton missed the bag. Wong couldn't come up with the ball cleanly and had to go to first. These plays put additional pitches onto the pitcher even if it doesn't cause more runs!!!!!!

[moonslav59]

But they were still relying on Valdez/Reyes/Hamilton as emergency backups. Duran, you have to take the good and the bad with him. Rafaela, there's the learning curve of being young and under the bright lights for the first time. The catchers aren't great defensive players either. You already know 1B and 3B have issues. Easy enough to compliment the holes in the defense by replacing the cheap backups with guys that are defensively minded IMO.

 

I get that. My point has never been we'd have a plus D in 2024. My mantra has been about getting from #30 to maybe #16 (maybe higher with the right guys staying healthy.)

[Bellhorn04]

It becomes one of you get through the ninth and still have your best reliever. This isn’t a Cora criticism specifically since most (all?) managers do it. But it seems like too many manage the game now as if they didn’t know the ghost runner was coming.

 

It also depends who is coming up. Last night, Cora brought in Jansen to face the 6-7-possible 8 hitters with no one on and one out. The leaves very little margin for error for the tenth. If Jansen gets the first two, the 8-9-1 hitters come up in the 10th, which isn’t bad. But if he lets one or more runners on, that inning gets increasingly difficult for a lesser reliever.

 

The ghost runner has been around a long time now. And while it’s a dumb rule, it’s apparently not going away. But outside of road teams that don’t using an IBB to set up a double play, there hasn’t been much in the way of strategies to handle this situation…

 

What strategies would there be? It's designed to produce quick runs and it does. If you're the home team at least you know how many you have to score to stay tied or win.

[Bellhorn04]

Campbell was supposed to be one of our late inning mainstays. He wasn't supposed to s*** the bed two games in a row.

[moonslav59]

We're you watching the same game as I was? There were several miscues. Reyes couldn't come up with an easy grounder. Hamilton missed the bag. Wong couldn't come up with the ball cleanly and had to go to first. These plays put additional pitches onto the pitcher even if it doesn't cause more runs!!!!!!

 

I have watched every pitch of every game, so yes.

 

I specifically said "thanks to our pitching," which implies not the D.

 

Before last nights game, we were T 3rd in runs allowed. That's damn good run prevention, IMO.

 

Yes, 13 of the 38 runs allowed were unearned or ghost runners scoring, but we were preventing runs, thanks to great pitching.

 

After least night, we are tied for 7th in least amount of runs allowed (47, with 15 being UERs or Ghost Runners.)

[moonslav59]

Campbell was supposed to be one of our late inning mainstays. He wasn't supposed to s*** the bed two games in a row.

 

I wonder how long his leash will be.

 

Zack Kelly is off to a good start in AAA. I guess Criswell will be called up to take Pivetta's start (or more,) so maybe Campbell gets demoted.

[notin]

What strategies would there be? It's designed to produce quick runs and it does. If you're the home team at least you know how many you have to score to stay tied or win.

 

I just gave a strategy. Use your closer in the tenth in home games.

 

How many do you need?

[moonslav59]

Hamilton's gaffe turned the game, right? When you have a motley crew patrolling the middle infield bad things seem to happen.

 

Yes, totally. The fact is, until the 10th, our team was T3rd in runs allowed- earned + unearned + ghosts.

 

THANKS TO THE PITCHING!

 

[notin]

Campbell was supposed to be one of our late inning mainstays. He wasn't supposed to s*** the bed two games in a row.

 

That’s poor planning in itself.

 

His MLB past was minimal at best, consisting of 29 innings in Seattle. I’m sure they saw plenty of things they loved about him in the minor league level, but certainly professional baseball people folks should know by now that doesn’t always translate to MLB success.

 

But he can pitch for the minimum wage, so he did meet that criteria…

[Old Red]

I wonder how long his leash will be.

 

Zack Kelly is off to a good start in AAA. I guess Criswell will be called up to take Pivetta's start (or more,) so maybe Campbell gets demoted.

 

It’s a BIG secret on who’s going to start Saturday.🤫

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I just gave a strategy. Use your closer in the tenth in home games.

 

How many do you need?

 

Maybe with a ghost on second, Cora fears Jansen's wildness -- wilderness? -- wilditity?

 

He throws at least three balls to every batter, and if he happens to walk the bases loaded, we can't risk losing the game on an ump's bad borderline call (we saw one again, last night).

 

It's not that they're afraid of Jansen getting ripped -- in five games so far, he has a no-hitter.

[mvp 78]

Campbell was supposed to be one of our late inning mainstays. He wasn't supposed to s*** the bed two games in a row.

 

No, Campbell was supposed to be a middle reliever and potentially a guy who started in AAA. I don't know how people thought he was pushed into a late inning role... When he was acquired, nobody thought he was an 8th inning guy.

[moonslav59]

No, Campbell was supposed to be a middle reliever and potentially a guy who started in AAA. I don't know how people thought he was pushed into a late inning role... When he was acquired, nobody thought he was an 8th inning guy.

 

Well, at the start of the year, we had Jansen as the closer and Martin as the back-up closer and 8th inning guy. Since neither can pitch everyday, I think most people assign 2 guys as "eighth inning" or "high leverage" RP'ers to go with the closer.

 

I viewed Wink as that guy, but he was being stertched out and was viewed as our long man, not really as our other 8th inning guys.

 

Who else did we have? Slaten? Joely?

 

soxprospects.com had Slaten listed 3rd behind Jansen & Martin, with Campbell listed 4th. (He still is listed 4th.)

[Old Red]

No, Campbell was supposed to be a middle reliever and potentially a guy who started in AAA. I don't know how people thought he was pushed into a late inning role... When he was acquired, nobody thought he was an 8th inning guy.

 

I think the original plan back then too was to have either Houck, or Whit in the BP also, but Sale got traded, and Gio went down.

[Randy Red Sox]

Campbell was supposed to be one of our late inning mainstays. He wasn't supposed to s*** the bed two games in a row.

 

where did we get this guy from? This is what happens when you take good arms from the BP and put them in the rotation

[mvp 78]

Well, at the start of the year, we had Jansen as the closer and Martin as the back-up closer and 8th inning guy. Since neither can pitch everyday, I think most people assign 2 guys as "eighth inning" or "high leverage" RP'ers to go with the closer.

 

I viewed Wink as that guy, but he was being stertched out and was viewed as our long man, not really as our other 8th inning guys.

 

Who else did we have? Slaten? Joely?

 

soxprospects.com had Slaten listed 3rd behind Jansen & Martin, with Campbell listed 4th. (He still is listed 4th.)

 

SoxProspects has Campbell listed as 4th NOW. When he was initially acquired and at the start of ST, he was still on the bubble of AAA and last spot in the pen.

[moonslav59]

SoxProspects has Campbell listed as 4th NOW. When he was initially acquired and at the start of ST, he was still on the bubble of AAA and last spot in the pen.

 

They had him listed 4th on their opening day rosters, right behind Slaten, who you poo-poo'd, recently for not having enough Ks.

 

https://www.soxprospects.com/2024SB.htm

 

[mvp 78]

They had him listed 4th on their opening day rosters, right behind Slaten, who you poo-poo'd, recently for not having enough Ks.

 

https://www.soxprospects.com/2024SB.htm

 

 

Determining how great a relief pitcher is based on ST performance is ridiculous. We saw that he was bubble guy when acquired. Pitching late innings against AAA guys should push him into an 8th inning role.

 

Please post the great and wonderful poo-poohing post.

[Old Red]

They had him listed 4th on their opening day rosters, right behind Slaten, who you poo-poo'd, recently for not having enough Ks.

 

https://www.soxprospects.com/2024SB.htm

 

 

🤭🙈🤮!

[moonslav59]

Determining how great a relief pitcher is based on ST performance is ridiculous. We saw that he was bubble guy when acquired. Pitching late innings against AAA guys should push him into an 8th inning role.

 

Please post the great and wonderful poo-poohing post.

 

How did you have our RP'ers ordered on opening day?

 

I'm not sure I'd have Campbell 3rd or 4th- maybe 4th or 5th, but I had Wink 3rd, and he was slated to be the long man.

 

I'm not claiming he was our 8th inning guys, but who was, beyond Martin? A few looked pretty close on opening day, and my point was that Campbell could have been viewed as such, just as easily as Slaten or Joely, or...

[moonslav59]

Determining how great a relief pitcher is based on ST performance is ridiculous. We saw that he was bubble guy when acquired. Pitching late innings against AAA guys should push him into an 8th inning role.

 

Please post the great and wonderful poo-poohing post.

 

Why has the point shifted to when we traded for him? (BTW, when we traded for him, I felt he was going to be pretty good, and we had no idea who was in the rotation.)

 

I like how you get to set the parameters of every discussion.

[notin]

SoxProspects has Campbell listed as 4th NOW. When he was initially acquired and at the start of ST, he was still on the bubble of AAA and last spot in the pen.

 

SoxProspects ranking of the Red Sox bullpen roles isn't worth anything. They're no more affiliated to the team than we are...

[Bellhorn04]

I just gave a strategy. Use your closer in the tenth in home games.

 

How many do you need?

 

First you have to show why that's a valid strategy. It's all based on the lesser guy getting the job done in the 9th. The same lesser guy you're afraid of for the 10th.

 

The only solution is having an endless string of good relievers...

[mvp 78]

SoxProspects ranking of the Red Sox bullpen roles isn't worth anything. They're no more affiliated to the team than we are...

 

No, but who here thought Campbell was one of the top tier relievers for the Sox when he was acquired? I think most people ignored him. To say he was supposed to be a late inning guy is disingenuous.

[mvp 78]

How did you have our RP'ers ordered on opening day?

 

I'm not sure I'd have Campbell 3rd or 4th- maybe 4th or 5th, but I had Wink 3rd, and he was slated to be the long man.

 

I'm not claiming he was our 8th inning guys, but who was, beyond Martin? A few looked pretty close on opening day, and my point was that Campbell could have been viewed as such, just as easily as Slaten or Joely, or...

 

Jansen

Martin

Winckowski

Joely

Weissert

Slaten

Campbell

Anderson

[Bellhorn04]

No, Campbell was supposed to be a middle reliever and potentially a guy who started in AAA. I don't know how people thought he was pushed into a late inning role... When he was acquired, nobody thought he was an 8th inning guy.

 

Is there any such thing as a middle reliever any more? With starters usually only going 5, you need to cover the 6th to the 9th with an ever changing cast, so they're all going to get high leverage spots.

[notin]

No, but who here thought Campbell was one of the top tier relievers for the Sox when he was acquired? I think most people ignored him. To say he was supposed to be a late inning guy is disingenuous.

 

I think so.

 

He seemed like a typical, boring MR guy that you bring in if the starter can't g0 five innings.

 

Of course, for most of the off-season, I thought the Sox would have Winckowski and Schreiber in front of Martin and Jansen...

[moonslav59]

SoxProspects ranking of the Red Sox bullpen roles isn't worth anything. They're no more affiliated to the team than we are...

 

I agree.

 

Let me ask you, and try to not let how badly Campbell has looked change your answer.

 

On opening day, who was our 3rd and 4th RP'ers after Jansen & Martin?

 

I had Wink, but it looked like he was going to be our "long man," which I felt was not really the traditional "eighth inning" type of guy.

 

It's my position that nobody really jumped out as the clear #3 guy. Campbell was pretty close to Slaten, Joely and Weissert. (Anderson was viewed as the other long man.)

 

I think he was the first guy out of the pen, in our first few games, so I don't think Cora viewed him as an 8th inning guy, but my point was that after jansen and Martin, with Wink as the long man, the rest looked pretty bunched up, to me.

[moonslav59]

Jansen

Martin

Winckowski

Joely

Weissert

Slaten

Campbell

Anderson

 

Looks fair. I'd have probably had Campbell ahead of Weissert and maybe Joely. I liked Slaten more.

 

I certainly view and viewed Wink as better, but I did not see him as a traditional 8th inning guy, after they "stretched him out."