A Realistic View of 2024: Part II

[mvp 78]

This list makes too much sense for a perennial last place team. Do we really want to risk rushing these young professional athletes?!? Bring actual good prospects up from the minor leagues to replace actual bad minor leaguers posing as big leaguers?

 

When I was in Baltimore in 2018, I spoke to two sisters -- longtime O's fans -- and they were enthusiastic about the recent promotion of Cedric Mullins (they felt that was the way to grow). Was he ready? In parts of three seasons, Mullins batted .225 with a .632 OPS... then suddenly he turned 26 and was a 30-30 player.

 

The O's lost 115 games in '18, then 108 the next year, and 110 in '21, just three years ago. Fans didn't pack the ballpark, but they went to watch the future and have hope.

 

Would it be any better instead if they just signed a bunch of rehabbing retreads trying to make comebacks in their 30s, and only lost 90 games a year?

 

Part of the problem in rebuilding the Sox is that they weren't BAD ENOUGH for long enough. They had one truly bad year, but it's clear that they should have had a massive fire sale prior to '22 and hit the reset button the way the O's and Astros did.

[notin]

Fair enough. But Cora is the most overrated manager in baseball.

 

Not so sure. Dave Roberts appears to be making a strong case for himself this year.

 

Of course, the award would typically go hands down to Joe Maddon if he had not retired...

[notin]

Interesting. I believe I'm correct in saying that this year's rotation has been unbelievably good--way beyond any rational expectations--and with five starters who started last year for the Sox.

 

So maybe the new pitching coach has had something to do with that. And the same can be said about the bullpen--the pitching coach is in charge of them. He's also right there in the dugout with Cora when decisions are made. He's also with Cora before the game when they map out contingencies--usually, who are they going to use for the last 4 innings.

 

Also, let's not forget that the one thing the Red Sox stink at is developing pitchers of any kind. The miracle of the rotation is both that they have been terrific and that their combined salaries add up to just $14M. I think I'm right that the only one of the five who came up through what is laughingly referred to as the Sox "system" is Bello.

 

We should also note that, out of 13 pitchers on this staff, just one is a lefty--Joely Rodriguez. Lefties reportedly are pretty good against lefty bats, and, given that the entire Sox rotation is made up of righties, you can bet there are plenty of lefty bats in the lineup every single night. But just one freaking lefty pitcher to get them out.

 

This year I'm distraught at all the errors, other misplays, so-so hitting, etc. I think it's unarguable that the focus is not there--like Hamilton not touching the bag last night. Maybe that's on Cora, I don't know.

 

But announcing he is destroying a bullpen after 13 freaking games is just stupid.

 

Small point but Brennan Bernardino is on the staff now as well...

[mvp 78]

Exactly.

 

"Bullpen role by inning" does not appear to be a thing with Cora, with the exception of the closer. And he is far from alone is his use of the closer that way...

 

I heard on a podcast that he blew up because he came in during the 7th inning and not the 8th like he's used to. That was not the case.

 

7th inning 2023: 274 OPS, 8 G

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

More well reasoned takes.

 

Cora lovers like John, Tom and Sam chose him over Chaim, and approved a roster of stellar minor league back-ups so they could fill out enough uniforms to stage games vs. actual big league teams.

 

But that's just the take from a guy who coached high school for a decade, and some college players who made The Show... but is lately too busy doing 16-ounce curls of potables brewed with hops from the Czech Republic.

[Maxbialystock]

Are we making up bullpen roles? What exactly is a "2nd 8th inning guy"? Martin has largely been the setup guy, coming in for the 8th inning in 4 of his 6 appearances, and in the 7th in the other two (more on these later).

 

In Winckowski's 4 appearances, he has been brought in in the 7th (twice), sixth and 10th innings. I don't see that as a long reliever.

 

But I don't think Cora is managing his relievers by innings as to when to bring them in, despite than many fans seem to like that method. I see strong tendencies to go after matchups instead of innings as for when he brings guys in. For example, the two times Martin came in in the 7th inning, he came in to face the 3-4-5 hitters in the opposing lineup. This is very likely not a coincidence. Cora appears to see the value of using his better arms against the 3-4-5 guys rather than using a lesser releiver agsinst 3-4-5 in the 7th and saving Martin to face 6-7-8 in the 8th. You can only get hitters out when they come up...

 

This discussion about how Cora is managing the bullpen is mindless. He has the experience and smarts--vastly greater than any of us--and he also seems to have a pretty good pitching coach. Thus the insane success of the rotation so far.

 

The telltale on the pitching staff--which I seem to be the only one on talksox who is aware of--is that they have 12 righties and 1 lefty. All five starters are righties, which means opposing team can safely put in as many lefty bats as they want because, guess what, the Sox have one lonely lefty reliever.

 

In short, the bullpen is unmanageable.

[mvp 78]

Cora lovers like John, Tom and Sam chose him over Chaim, and approved a roster of stellar minor league back-ups so they could fill out enough uniforms to stage games vs. actual big league teams.

 

But that's just the take from a guy who coached high school for a decade, and some college players who made The Show... but is lately too busy doing 16-ounce curls of potables brewed with hops from the Czech Republic.

 

I'd take Cora over Chaim too. Does anyone here think Chaim is better than Cora?

[mvp 78]

This discussion about how Cora is managing the bullpen is mindless. He has the experience and smarts--vastly greater than any of us--and he also seems to have a pretty good pitching coach. Thus the insane success of the rotation so far.

 

The telltale on the pitching staff--which I seem to be the only one on talksox who is aware of--is that they have 12 righties and 1 lefty. All five starters are righties, which means opposing team can safely put in as many lefty bats as they want because, guess what, the Sox have one lonely lefty reliever.

 

In short, the bullpen is unmanageable.

 

It's a feral bullpen. Some of them need to be shot with a tranquilizer.

[moonslav59]

 

In short, the bullpen is unmanageable.

 

I always chuckle when the game threads go off on Cora for bringing in this bum, instead of that one.

 

Many times, the guy the poster wanted brought in was unavailable. Nobody says a peep, when the guy gets outs. Much is in hindsight.

[moonslav59]

It's a feral bullpen. Some of them need to be shot with a tranquilizer.

 

So far, we'd have a near top pen, if we never had to use Campbell or Joely.

 

(I'm sure many other pens could be in the same boat.)

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I always chuckle when the game threads go off on Cora for bringing in this bum, instead of that one.

 

Many times, the guy the poster wanted brought in was unavailable. Nobody says a peep, when the guy gets outs. Much is in hindsight.

 

CBOs continue to task Cora with making a glass of free-squeezed orange juice with just the peels. Tension is pulpable. Pulp fiction, I tell ya. If only Jonathan Pulpelbon could save us.

[Old Red]

I'd take Cora over Chaim too. Does anyone here think Chaim is better than Cora?

 

I do, I do, I do!🤫

[dgalehouse]

Folks, it's not the end of the world. The Orioles are a really good team. A team without any glaring weaknesses. And, apparently, a very good late inning team, if that's a thing. Now, the Angels come to town. They should be just what the doctor ordered to get the Sox back on track and improve the ever changing mood on this forum. Anyway, it's a long season. You can't live or die with every early season series.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Folks, it's not the end of the world. The Orioles are a really good team. A team without any glaring weaknesses. And, apparently, a very good late inning team, if that's a thing. Now, the Angels come to town. They should be just what the doctor ordered to get the Sox back on track and improve the ever changing mood on this forum. Anyway, it's a long season. You can't live or die with every early season series.

 

We didn't -- the Red Sox did. Somebody get up to Fenway pronto and roll some of the bodies back over and administer rescue breathing.

 

Let's see if they have a different approach to Detmers tonight. He croaked them, last time out.

 

Encouraged by Abreu last night -- keeping his head on the ball and going with the pitch for the first time this season. Result: 2-for-2, both to the opposite field.

[mvp 78]

Folks, it's not the end of the world. The Orioles are a really good team. A team without any glaring weaknesses. And, apparently, a very good late inning team, if that's a thing. Now, the Angels come to town. They should be just what the doctor ordered to get the Sox back on track and improve the ever changing mood on this forum. Anyway, it's a long season. You can't live or die with every early season series.

 

Do we still have to be happy about it?

[Bellhorn04]

Folks, it's not the end of the world. The Orioles are a really good team. A team without any glaring weaknesses. And, apparently, a very good late inning team, if that's a thing. Now, the Angels come to town. They should be just what the doctor ordered to get the Sox back on track and improve the ever changing mood on this forum. Anyway, it's a long season. You can't live or die with every early season series.

 

We're projected by the oddsmakers to win less than 80 games. For good reason. It's not like we're complaining about a good team that's in a little slump. We're pissed at the effort that went into putting together a Boston Red Sox team that's going to be under .500 for the third year in a row and 7th time in 13 seasons.

 

If you want to be happy about the situation, be happy. But not everyone feels the same way.

[Maxbialystock]

Small point but Brennan Bernardino is on the staff now as well...

 

Actually, a big point. I saw the name, but forgot the lefty part.

[Maxbialystock]

Do we still have to be happy about it?

 

Not being happy is endemic to talksox. Right now it's impossible to be happy even though the Sox are 7-6.

 

The rotation is still doing well. The bullpen struggles, but has had some moments.

 

The fielding is execrable.

 

The hitting so far is the worst in a long time.

Edited April 12, 2024 by Maxbialystock

[Old Red]

We're projected by the oddsmakers to win less than 80 games. For good reason. It's not like we're complaining about a good team that's in a little slump. We're pissed at the effort that went into putting together a Boston Red Sox team that's going to be under .500 for the third year in a row and 7th time in 13 seasons.

 

If you want to be happy about the situation, be happy. But not everyone feels the same way.

I think most of RSN was teetering before the season even started especially after the not so full throttle off season. Spirits were picked up after the West Coast trip, but these 3 losses have put most in an angry mood. It’s not just the losses, but how they lost. Not being able to just make routine plays was ugly.

[Bellhorn04]

I think most of RSN was teetering before the season even started especially after the not so full throttle off season. Spirits were picked up after the West Coast trip, but these 3 losses have put most in an angry mood. It’s not just the losses, but how they lost. Not being able to just make routine plays was ugly.

 

And we're likely to see more of the same. The scrubs we're putting out there in the middle infield aren't going to instantly get better. They're just not very good. And the team has done nothing to address the situation. It's already reminiscent of last year's antics with Kike.

[Old Red]

And we're likely to see more of the same. The scrubs we're putting out there in the middle infield aren't going to instantly get better. They're just not very good. And the team has done nothing to address the situation. It's already reminiscent of last year's antics with Kike.

Where’s Yu Chang. At least he could field, and none of these other guys are hitting much of anything anyway.

[dgalehouse]

You can be happy or you can be miserable . It's up to you. The Sox got swept by the Orioles. Honestly, it would not be a big surprise if the O's went to the World Series. But the Sox are still 7-6. Very few of you expected better, so why the disappointment ? Obviously, it is easier to beat the weaker teams than it is to beat the top tier clubs. The good news is that there is no shortage of weaker teams to beat. And much of the ups and downs of a season are schedule related. Let things play out a little bit. Hold off on the gloom and doom. Be happy.

[Bellhorn04]

You can be happy or you can be miserable . It's up to you. The Sox got swept by the Orioles. Honestly, it would not be a big surprise if the O's went to the World Series. But the Sox are still 7-6. Very few of you expected better, so why the disappointment ? Obviously, it is easier to beat the weaker teams than it is to beat the top tier clubs. The good news is that there is no shortage of weaker teams to beat. And much of the ups and downs of a season are schedule related. Let things play out a little bit. Hold off on the gloom and doom. Be happy.

 

Ignorance is bliss, as they say.

[Maxbialystock]

I think most of RSN was teetering before the season even started especially after the not so full throttle off season. Spirits were picked up after the West Coast trip, but these 3 losses have put most in an angry mood. It’s not just the losses, but how they lost. Not being able to just make routine plays was ugly.

 

That's me right down the line.

[moonslav59]

You can be happy or you can be miserable . It's up to you. The Sox got swept by the Orioles. Honestly, it would not be a big surprise if the O's went to the World Series. But the Sox are still 7-6. Very few of you expected better, so why the disappointment ? Obviously, it is easier to beat the weaker teams than it is to beat the top tier clubs. The good news is that there is no shortage of weaker teams to beat. And much of the ups and downs of a season are schedule related. Let things play out a little bit. Hold off on the gloom and doom. Be happy.

 

Most are somewhere in between.

[notin]

And we're likely to see more of the same. The scrubs we're putting out there in the middle infield aren't going to instantly get better. They're just not very good. And the team has done nothing to address the situation. It's already reminiscent of last year's antics with Kike.

 

Kike was given MONTHS to show he couldn’t play shortstop. Hamilton has played 4 games. Gonzalez in two. Not the same level of status quo at all…

[dgalehouse]

Ignorance is bliss, as they say.

 

I don't consider myself to be ignorant. I think I am more grounded in reality and pragmatic than most.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't consider myself to be ignorant. I think I am more grounded in reality and pragmatic than most.

 

Of course you're not ignorant. But I've tried to explain that the unhappiness isn't just about the 3 game sweep, it's about the fact that just about everyone who follows baseball thinks we're going to be under .500 again, for good reasons, like the fact our lineup and defense is full of what you would call jabronis. The 'be happy' stuff gets old fast.

[Old Red]

I don't consider myself to be ignorant. I think I am more grounded in reality and pragmatic than most.

 

👍👍👍

[Old Red]

I would say the good old eye test has shown you more the last 3 nights then you need to know than all the analytics you can come up with. Even the highlights, or should I say lowlights that have been shown 100 times over was more than enough. Seeing is believing. Edited April 12, 2024 by Old Red