Chris Sale traded to Braves

[moonslav59]

There's just no valid comparison between Sale and Perez. Sale has been one of the most talented pitchers in the game for a long time. Perez had one nice run of 1.5 years or whatever it was.

 

Of course. Agreed.

 

Hindsight can be fun.

[Randy Red Sox]

texas says--PASS

[moonslav59]

After his first start in 2021 (AUG 14,) Sale pitched 8 nice games at 3.11 and 3.49 FIP. Hopes were high for 2022. Then, poof.

 

Had we traded him that winter, we'd have heard cricketts all 2023.

 

Hindsight can be fun. It can be a bitch, too.

[moonslav59]

Chris Sale had a series of injuries. Tommy John being the big one. Some of the others were kind of fluky. He showed signs of getting healthy last year. I think the Sox could have been more patient with him, especially given the state of their pitching staff. He is a special talent. Martin Perez should not be mentioned in the same breath as Sale.

 

If you truly don't want me to ever respond to another post of yours, you might try not responding to mine.

[Bellhorn04]

After his first start in 2021 (AUG 14,) Sale pitched 8 nice games at 3.11 and 3.49 FIP. Hopes were high for 2022. Then, poof.

 

Had we traded him that winter, we'd have heard cricketts all 2023.

 

That's totally irrelevant to the issue that matters, IMO, which is whether they should have traded him before 2024, given the circumstances that existed and the return they got.

[Old Red]

Why no big stink over letting Martin Perez walk? We shoulda known he was on the cusp of a rebound.

 

176 IP w BOS 4.65 ERA/ 4.84 FIP (2020-2021)

338 IP w TEX 3.54 ERA/ 3.99 FIP (2022-2023)

 

(Of course, he turned back into a pumpkin half way through '23 and afterwards.

 

OMG, and a big WOW! Some of your comparisons lately have been mind boggling.🤭🙈🤮.

[moonslav59]

That's totally irrelevant to the issue that matters, IMO, which is whether they should have traded him before 2024, given the circumstances that existed and the return they got.

 

No, it is relevant, as some claim his "sowing signs" in 2023 meant something, yet the "signs" in 2021 were false hope signs.

 

Somehow, we were supposed to know the 2023 ones were for real.

 

Look, I get the idea that trading away any pitching, last winter was asking for this. Not replacing Sale, or Gio, once we knew he was hurt was a major mistake. I'm not sure anyone felt good about the totality of the pitching additions vs subtractions, last winter.

 

My point was only about Sale showing signs, several times after 2018, and never once did the hopes come anywhere near what he gave ATL in 2024. We guessed wrong. We stuck with him for a very long time, and just about every poster got sick of waiting and waiting.

 

We also got sick of Bloom signing other pitchers with injury histories and waiting for them to come off the IL, year after year. Brez tried to end that, and he failed, miserably. He traded our most injury prone pitcher and signed one that was known mostly for his durability- not his skill level. It back-fired, badly.

 

I wish we still had Sale. I wish Gio never got hurt. Neither happened, and we are struggling mightily because of that.

 

Had we traded him after 2021, and he went on to have a year like this in 2023, we'd have heard the same beefs.

[Maxbialystock]

No, it is relevant, as some claim his "sowing signs" in 2023 meant something, yet the "signs" in 2021 were false hope signs.

 

Somehow, we were supposed to know the 2023 ones were for real.

 

Look, I get the idea that trading away any pitching, last winter was asking for this. Not replacing Sale, or Gio, once we knew he was hurt was a major mistake. I'm not sure anyone felt good about the totality of the pitching additions vs subtractions, last winter.

 

My point was only about Sale showing signs, several times after 2018, and never once did the hopes come anywhere near what he gave ATL in 2024. We guessed wrong. We stuck with him for a very long time, and just about every poster got sick of waiting and waiting.

 

We also got sick of Bloom signing other pitchers with injury histories and waiting for them to come off the IL, year after year. Brez tried to end that, and he failed, miserably. He traded our most injury prone pitcher and signed one that was known mostly for his durability- not his skill level. It back-fired, badly.

 

I wish we still had Sale. I wish Gio never got hurt. Neither happened, and we are struggling mightily because of that.

 

Had we traded him after 2021, and he went on to have a year like this in 2023, we'd have heard the same beefs.

 

The Braves had no problem reading what you call the "false signs" of 2023.

[moonslav59]

The Braves had no problem reading what you call the "false signs" of 2023.

 

They were "false signs" in 2021, and who here knew the difference in foresight?

 

Of course, they were NOT "false signs" in 2023, but I will say this, there was pretty close to the exact same excitement on Sale in the winter after 2021 as the winter after 2023. That's my point.

 

I'm not trying to say we didn't swing and miss, badly. We obviously did, but how were the "signs" in 2023 noticeably different?

 

Oh, and BTW, ATL did force Brez to pay a big chunk of his contract, so it's not like they had complete faith in the "signs."

 

Again, the trade sucked. ATL did a great job on the timing and the choice they made. That is clear.

Edited August 14, 2024 by moonslav59

[notin]

His absences in the 2019-2023 years were clearly a problem.

 

As for 2024, he was potentially either one.

 

Cutting him loose didn't do anything to resolve the problem, did it? And with the wisdom of hindsight, keeping him would have alleviated the problem for this year at least.

 

Hindsight makes lots of decisions easier. Also makes lotteries more winnable…

[Bellhorn04]

They were "false signs" in 2021, and who here knew the difference in foresight?

 

Of course, they were NOT "false signs" in 2023, but I will say this, there was pretty close to the exact same excitement on Sale in the winter after 2021 as the winter after 2023. That's my point.

 

False signs of what though? You mean false signs that he was back to being healthy and would stay that way?

 

After his TJ surgery he had a couple of fluke injuries and one concerning one, to his shoulder I believe.

 

No one could possibly predict the fluke injuries. They were totally random s***.

 

I'm not really sure what your point about 2021 is.

[notin]

False signs of what though? You mean false signs that he was back to being healthy and would stay that way?

 

After his TJ surgery he had a couple of fluke injuries and one concerning one, to his shoulder I believe.

 

No one could possibly predict the fluke injuries. They were totally random s***.

 

I'm not really sure what your point about 2021 is.

 

Getting hit by a comebacker is a definitely fluke injury. Ditto the bike accident, although I’m surprised riding a bike wasn’t contractually prohibited. (Was it?)

 

I am hesitant to label breaking a rib while throwing a pitch as part of that same category, however…

[Bellhorn04]

Having major technical issues right now.

 

Breaking a rib is very concerning, yes. I'm no rib expert but I suspect that would be a stress fracture, not something that happened on one pitch. Ribs are funny things. Just ask Casas.

[Bellhorn04]

We'll never know exactly what the thought process was behind trading Sale. The injury risk part is obvious, there's really no need to keep re-stating it.

 

Other possibilities:

 

1) The payroll budget was so tight that the $10 million recovery was a huge deal.

2) They wanted to keep all the lanes open for potential starters, including Whitlock and Winckowski.

3) They were genuinely concerned Sale would not get along with Bailey and the new program and it would create issues.

[Duran Is The Man]

They were "false signs" in 2021, and who here knew the difference in foresight?

 

Of course, they were NOT "false signs" in 2023, but I will say this, there was pretty close to the exact same excitement on Sale in the winter after 2021 as the winter after 2023. That's my point.

 

I'm not trying to say we didn't swing and miss, badly. We obviously did, but how were the "signs" in 2023 noticeably different?

 

Oh, and BTW, ATL did force Brez to pay a big chunk of his contract, so it's not like they had complete faith in the "signs."

 

Again, the trade sucked. ATL did a great job on the timing and the choice they made. That is clear.

 

 

to me, paying $10M of his salary is the dumbest part of the trade. i always suspected the FO was incompetent, but this seals the deal.

[notin]

We'll never know exactly what the thought process was behind trading Sale. The injury risk part is obvious, there's really no need to keep re-stating it.

 

Other possibilities:

 

1) The payroll budget was so tight that the $10 million recovery was a huge deal.

2) They wanted to keep all the lanes open for potential starters, including Whitlock and Winckowski.

3) They were genuinely concerned Sale would not get along with Bailey and the new program and it would create issues.

 

Your technical issues are from the site. I’m having them too.

 

I also wonder if the bike accident wasn’t a bigger deal. Many athletes have activities like that prohibited for that very reason - injury. Like Aaron Boone’s infamous basketball injury that lead to the ARod trade.

 

If Sale was violating his contract with extracurricular activities, it’s another possible contributor to wanting to move him …

[mvp 78]

Having major technical issues right now.

 

test

[moonslav59]

False signs of what though? You mean false signs that he was back to being healthy and would stay that way?

 

After his TJ surgery he had a couple of fluke injuries and one concerning one, to his shoulder I believe.

 

No one could possibly predict the fluke injuries. They were totally random s***.

 

I'm not really sure what your point about 2021 is.

 

The point about 2021 was that we saw signs of Sale coming back to form, and were let down. Yes, the point is we cannot possibly predict injuries, and nobody could after 2021 or 2023.

 

We guessed wrong after 2023. Had we traded Sale after 2021, nobody would have complained, because he ended up getting hurt, again- making it 4 years in a row, to be followed by another one in 2023.

 

There were "signs" he was doing well in '21 just like in '23. The only reason it's a big deal is that Sale finally did not get hurt, after 5 years, and somehow we should have known that was going to happen, based on how he looked for a stretch in 2023.

 

Yes, some of the injuries were random, but the fact was, Sale missed significant time for 5 straight years, and Brez tried to take away the guesswork, and guessed wrongly in the process.

[Bellhorn04]

Quoting moon:

 

There were "signs" he was doing well in '21 just like in '23. The only reason it's a big deal is that Sale finally did not get hurt, after 5 years, and somehow we should have known that was going to happen, based on how he looked for a stretch in 2023.

 

"Somehow we should have known" is a totally unfair way to put it. It would be ridiculous for anyone to say the Sox should have known Sale would have a season like this. I really don't think anyone has said any such thing.

 

The issue is with the possibility he could have a good season.

[Bellhorn04]

to me, paying $10M of his salary is the dumbest part of the trade. i always suspected the FO was incompetent, but this seals the deal.

 

It's actually $17M they're paying.

[moonslav59]

Quoting moon:

 

There were "signs" he was doing well in '21 just like in '23. The only reason it's a big deal is that Sale finally did not get hurt, after 5 years, and somehow we should have known that was going to happen, based on how he looked for a stretch in 2023.

 

 

"Somehow we should have known" is a totally unfair way to put it. It would be ridiculous for anyone to say the Sox should have known Sale would have a season like this. I really don't think anyone has said any such thing.

 

The issue is with the possibility he could have a good season. -bellhorn

 

Yes, saying there was a possibility is a good way of putting it.

 

There was a possibility before 2019, before 2020, before 2021, before 2022, before 2023 and before 2024.

 

Since many posters are upset we didn't guess right for 2024, I think using the phrase "somehow we should have known" captures the sentiment, too.

 

We guessed rong 5 straight years, and had we traded hi before 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 or 2023, and he went on to do what he did in those seasons, nobody would be complaining.

 

We did after 2023, and he is doing very well. We guessed wrong, and Brez is being roasted for NOT going with the possibility he might do well. He guessed wrongly. ATL guessed right.

 

Yes, it was totally random, and we picked the exact wrong year to trade Sale. In hindsight, it was a 1 in 6 chance, and we picked the one. (And, we paid to guess wrongly, too.)

[Bellhorn04]

What I'd say is that they traded him at the point when there was no longer much point in doing it.

[mvp 78]

Quoting moon:

 

There were "signs" he was doing well in '21 just like in '23. The only reason it's a big deal is that Sale finally did not get hurt, after 5 years, and somehow we should have known that was going to happen, based on how he looked for a stretch in 2023.

 

"Somehow we should have known" is a totally unfair way to put it. It would be ridiculous for anyone to say the Sox should have known Sale would have a season like this. I really don't think anyone has said any such thing.

 

The issue is with the possibility he could have a good season.

 

There was always the possibility that it was going to happen. That's why you trade him outside the division and preferably to the NL. If Grissom ends up being an everyday player, it ends up being a win eventually. If not, oh well.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm just using this thread to cope with my regret. Would have been a great story for us this year.

[notin]

I'm just using this thread to cope with my regret. Would have been a great story for us this year.

 

It’s an amazing story stilll.

 

Sale made his first All Star game in 6 years. I’m not sure if anyone has ever had a gap that large between All Star appearances.

 

Sale is on track to win his first Cy Young. After 4 years of all but not playing! And at age 35!

 

NL Comeback Player of the Year is already clinched. And clearly not enough. He should get Comeback Player of the Century…

[mvp 78]

I'm just using this thread to cope with my regret. Would have been a great story for us this year.

 

The Story remains the same. Injured.

[redsoxrules]

What I'd say is that they traded him at the point when there was no longer much point in doing it.

 

This was my thought exactly.

They weren't going to get anything much in return for any trade and eat money. So why not ride the last year out. If he has a good year they can use him as trade bait for something a lot better or keep him for a run at the playoffs

[Randy Red Sox]

why are we still hashing this trade?? When it was made almost everyone {not me} was saying how we stole a young stud cost controlled 2B AND saved some $$$ on Sale's contract. How could we possibly not have won this trade going away? At the time Breslow was lauded as a genius.

[notin]

why are we still hashing this trade?? When it was made almost everyone {not me} was saying how we stole a young stud cost controlled 2B AND saved some $$$ on Sale's contract. How could we possibly not have won this trade going away? At the time Breslow was lauded as a genius.

 

And you’ve done nothing but tell you what a genius you are since, despite clearly missing the point of this thread for only 2 months…

[mvp 78]

why are we still hashing this trade?? When it was made almost everyone {not me} was saying how we stole a young stud cost controlled 2B AND saved some $$$ on Sale's contract. How could we possibly not have won this trade going away? At the time Breslow was lauded as a genius.

 

This isn't true at all. It's easy enough to go back to the first few pages of this post and see a lot of people complaining about the trade and many others being luke warm at best. You weren't alone on an island as you are pretending to be.