Chris Sale traded to Braves

[moonslav59]

It's fair to call out the offseason plan for the rotation as a whole, though, when all they did is remove Sale and add Giolito.

 

The rest of it was basically counting on Bailey to perform a miracle.

 

Of course, it's okay. I was with you and just about everyone else on our need to add at least one more quality SP'er, and many wanted more pen help and depth, too.

 

Brez messed up- bigtime. Now, we are hoping against hope we can get a serviceable SP'er without a major overpay.

 

I'm glad you moved away from focusing on just one move that back-fired, horrifically.

 

How many years have we gone through, recently, where injuries left us high and dry, using 10 openers or below replacement level SP'ers while still near a WC slot?

 

GMs should count on losing 2-4 or their top 10 SP'ers on the depth chart. We lost #1/2 Giolito, #3/4/5 Whitlock and #7/8/9/10 Murphy. Some of the others, like Criswell, the one depth guy Brez added, was on the IL for a bit, too.

 

The budget cannot be blamed for not adding more Criswells. That's on Brez.

 

The Sale trade made some sense, at the time, and those reasons do not change in hindsight. He was undependable. Our 2B position was our worst position over the last 4-5 years- even worse than SP'ing as a whole. Grissom offered a hope that many baseball people felt was legitimate. He had 5 years of control. The trade was not without merits. It just failed on both ends.

 

The Gio injury made it worse, and not adding a pitcher, especially after knowing Gio was out for the year was a MAJOR blunder. It might be the one thing every poster agree on.

[moonslav59]

Sale pitched 102.2 last year. Not great but 102.2 more than zero.

 

I've yet to see an explanation for how subtracting innings is a plus.

 

It wouldn't have broken any rules to keep Sale and sign Giolito.

 

Agreed, but I think the looked at it this way:

 

Gio +180 minus Sale 100= +80

Bello +20-30 more

Houck, Crawford and Whitlock +30-80, each.

Pivetta +20-40 from 2023, where he spent time in the pen.

 

Counting on just 6 pitchers, plus the longshot Criswell was clearly a big mistake, but in terms of projecting IP, it did look like we had more with Gio over Sale.

 

Thinking that was enough was the fatal mistake. Now, we have to back-peddle and overpay for deadline pitching, or sit another playoffs out.

[Bellhorn04]

How many teams have a $29mill fungible starter?

 

Henry has gotten cheap, but even teams that haven’t don’t spend that on “fungible starters.”

 

If Sale was a free agent this off-season, he doesn’t get that kind of money…

 

Of course not. It's the sunk cost principle.

[notin]

Of course not. It's the sunk cost principle.

 

I don’t think MLB front office people leap to “sunk cost” conclusions nearly as quickly as fans do…

[Bellhorn04]

I don’t think MLB front office people leap to “sunk cost” conclusions nearly as quickly as fans do…

 

Well, it's pretty basic stuff.

 

In the case of Sale, they were going to be on the hook for some of his salary no matter what. They ended up on the hook for 17.5 million

 

They traded Sale for 10 million and Grissom.

Edited July 28, 2024 by Bellhorn04

[notin]

Well, it's pretty basic stuff.

 

In the case of Sale, they were going to be on the hook for some of his salary no matter what. They ended up on the hook for 17.5 million

 

They traded Sale for 10 million and Grissom.

 

 

Yes, and it’s didn’t work out.

 

But back in December when we all assumed Sale was headed for another partial season, we all liked this trade…

[Duran Is The Man]

chase anderson DFA'd.

[Duran Is The Man]

and Reese McGuire.

[Duran Is The Man]

picked up Yohan Ramirez off waivers from the Dodgers scrap pile.

[vegasbob]

I would expect Anderson to clear waivers, but some team needing a #2 catcher could do worse than McGuire. Breslow couldn't get a heads up deal on him though, so DFA became a must

[moonslav59]

I would expect Anderson to clear waivers, but some team needing a #2 catcher could do worse than McGuire. Breslow couldn't get a heads up deal on him though, so DFA became a must

 

Trades can still be made for Reese, like we did for Paxton, who was DFA'd. We have until the deadline to trade him, but I'm not expecting one.

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, and it’s didn’t work out.

 

But back in December when we all assumed Sale was headed for another partial season, we all liked this trade…

 

All? Definitely not. Go back and read the initial reactions on this thread. They were mixed, with a lot of them guessing it meant there was more coming.

 

If everyone knew at the time that the only things happening were Sale going and Giolito coming, I think the overall reaction would have been decidedly negative.

Edited July 29, 2024 by Bellhorn04

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The initial reactions on this thread were mixed, with a lot of them guessing it meant there was more more coming.

 

If everyone knew at the time that the only things happening were Sale going and Giolito coming, I think the overall reaction would have been decidedly negative.

 

Straight trade: a guy who hurts his team when he's not on the mound for a guy who hurts his team when he is on the mound...

 

... is the hill half-empty or half-full?

 

(OB would call it the bump that would give up knocks and would use would even after a woodchuck would chuck would).

[Bellhorn04]

Ha ha! Stars for prospects! The Red Sox way. Nice gesture, though, to pick up part of his salary. Now who will be the first apologist to argue this shows the RS commitment to home-grown talent.

 

Here's a guy who wasn't impressed.

[Bellhorn04]

Another last place is coming.

 

And another.

[Bellhorn04]

You have to think this is followed up by an additional move to upgrade the starting rotation. They’re also taking a chance on 6 years on a 23 year old who could be their 2nd baseman of the future.

 

The "more is coming" response.

[Bellhorn04]

Some other move is definitely in the works ……

 

Another "more is coming" believer.

[Bellhorn04]

I’m definitely not sad to see Sale get traded, but I don’t like paying $17M to do it.

 

Red was all over the $17 mill!

[Bellhorn04]

lol!

 

So we basically swapped Sale for Giolito and Grissham, this week.

 

moon's initial reaction was not enthused.

[Bellhorn04]

This move can't be valued individually, but in a vacuum. Must be the precursor to other moves.

 

Dipre also in the "more must be coming" category.

[Bellhorn04]

I love this trade.

 

Hitch loved it.

[Bellhorn04]

Seems like Grissom gets on base a lot. But his power and fielding hasn’t been there. Not sure I like this deal.

 

Some doubts about Grissom.

[Bellhorn04]

Sale will probably go 15-3 with a 2.5 ERA just because we traded him

 

Ouch.

[Bellhorn04]

As a stand alone move it's ******** for sure. All I've heard for two years now is wait until Yorke is ready. Looks to me as though he should be gone all of a sudden. It is possible that our defense up the middle just got worse.

I will freely admit that I am a huge fan of Chris Sales. Yesterday and today. When healthy one of my top 3 or 4 to ever pitch in fenway. I will miss him.

 

cp176 was the biggest hater of the trade.

[Bellhorn04]

So Sale plus $17.5 million for Giollito for $19.5 million and Grissom.

 

Basically, replaced Sale for Giollito with a price tag of $37 million. Seriously?

 

700 not a fan of it.

[notin]

The "more is coming" response.

 

And did the Sox make another move related to this?

 

It’s amazing how you can cling to a singular word in my post and go back and dig up evidence like this. There are some pessimistic fans who dislike any and every move.

 

I don’t even get your argument.

 

“I liked the trade, but I thought it meant more was coming.”

 

1. First of all, more did come. They signed Giolito later that week. It didn’t work out, but it did happen. Now this is evolving into to “I meant ‘even more than that’.”

 

2. People say “there must be more coming all the time out here. It happens with DFAs quite often. I’ve seen it get posted when a minor leaguer gets pulled from a game.

 

3. Yes it would have been nice to replace Giolito. But why did you expect it? Sale went down in ST multiple times and never got replaced…

Edited July 29, 2024 by notin

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

And did the Sox make another move related to this?

 

Zack was here for a Short time.

[notin]

Well, it's pretty basic stuff.

 

In the case of Sale, they were going to be on the hook for some of his salary no matter what. They ended up on the hook for 17.5 million

 

They traded Sale for 10 million and Grissom.

 

 

You do realize the “sunk cost principle” is predicated on the notion that abandoning the cost would be the smarter course, right? It doesn’t mean it’s a free no risk opportunity…

 

So once you call Sale “sunk cost”, you’ve more than justified the logic in trading him. And you did this in post 1353…

[Bellhorn04]

And did the Sox make another move related to this?

 

It’s amazing how you can cling to a singular word in my post and go back and dig up evidence like this. There are some pessimistic fans who dislike any and every move.

 

I don’t even get your argument.

 

“I liked the trade, but I thought it meant more was coming.”

 

1. First of all, more did come. They signed Giolito later that week. It didn’t work out, but it did happen. Now this is evolving into to “I meant ‘even more than that’.”

 

2. People say “there must be more coming all the time out here. It happens with DFAs quite often. I’ve seen it get posted when a minor leaguer gets pulled from a game.

 

3. Yes it would have been nice to replace Giolito. But why did you expect it? Sale went down in ST multiple times and never got replaced…

 

The Giolito signing was announced first.

 

Also, you need to relax a little. I was just having fun posting those reactions.

[Bellhorn04]

You do realize the “sunk cost principle” is predicated on the notion that abandoning the cost would be the smarter course, right? It doesn’t mean it’s a free no risk opportunity…

 

So once you call Sale “sunk cost”, you’ve more than justified the logic in trading him. And you did this in post 1353…

 

The sunk cost principle also applies to Yoshida. You're not going to be able to move him without paying too much, so you might as well keep him.