Chris Sale traded to Braves

[notin]

That may have been part of it, but I think the Braves came to the Red Sox as they had been interested in Sale before, and made an offer of a suspect at a position the Red Sox had a need for. Supposedly Bloom had offers for Sale, but wouldn’t agree. Brez wanted Gio, and couldn’t quite afford both, and made the deal.

 

Reportedly another team approached Bloom about taking Sale's deal in July of 2022, but they didn't want to trade back anything worthwhile, so Bloom rejected the deal.

 

And that was before the bike accident. Flash forward through a 60 day IL trip for shoulder inflammation in 2023, and Atltanta still wants to gamble on Sale, and maybe will give up a decent player. But that means in no way do they pay full freight. Breslow asks for a player he likes (Grissom) ad pays down the amount. Then it just comes down to Atlanta appeasing Sale so he approves the trade, and the Sox replacing quality with durability. (Clearly even Sale lacked confidence in his durability. He pushed back free agency by two years and even overwrote a more lucrative option year. Those don't sound like the actions of a guy who knows he is back 100%.)

[notin]

What the hell?

 

It is true.

 

And we won't even get into how many people from this forum have a little notin doll they spend their offline hours sticking pins into and setting on fire.

 

By the way, if you're interested, I still have some stock left in the Official Notin Voodoo Chile doll. Pull the string and hear the smugness! Pins sold separately...

[Maxbialystock]

Reportedly another team approached Bloom about taking Sale's deal in July of 2022, but they didn't want to trade back anything worthwhile, so Bloom rejected the deal.

 

And that was before the bike accident. Flash forward through a 60 day IL trip for shoulder inflammation in 2023, and Atltanta still wants to gamble on Sale, and maybe will give up a decent player. But that means in no way do they pay full freight. Breslow asks for a player he likes (Grissom) ad pays down the amount. Then it just comes down to Atlanta appeasing Sale so he approves the trade, and the Sox replacing quality with durability. (Clearly even Sale lacked confidence in his durability. He pushed back free agency by two years and even overwrote a more lucrative option year. Those don't sound like the actions of a guy who knows he is back 100%.)

 

I hear/read you, but my take is different. Mine is that TJ surgery has been wildly successful, so much so that kids get it. Sale showed signs of needing it as early as 2018 and certainly in 2019. He finally gets it and misses all of 2020 and almost all of 2021 and 2022. Finally, he gets 20 starts and 102.2 IP in 2023 and demonstrated that, if he can stay healthy, he can be effective.

 

The point is, that all those missed seasons--2020, 2021, and 2022--were the result of TJ surgery recovery and the bicycle accident in ST. What the Sox lost sight of was that by itself TJ surgery had given Sale a whole new life as a starter, once he had recovered and then once he got past the bicycle injury.

 

Both the Sox and the Braves had every opportunity to evaluate Sale in 2023, when he had the 20 starts, and they reached opposing conclusions. The Braves saw potential and the Sox saw a dead man walking. Braves smart, Sox dumb.

 

I invariably read your stuff because it's good. That doesn't mean we can't disagree.

Edited July 15, 2024 by Maxbialystock

[mvp 78]

It is true.

 

And we won't even get into how many people from this forum have a little notin doll they spend their offline hours sticking pins into and setting on fire.

 

By the way, if you're interested, I still have some stock left in the Official Notin Voodoo Chile doll. Pull the string and hear the smugness! Pins sold separately...

 

I already have an SCM summoning doll at home. I think having more than one TalkSox artifact would get me kicked out of the house.

[notin]

I hear/read you, but my take is different. Mine is that TJ surgery has been wildly successful, so much so that kids get it. Sale showed signs of needing it as early as 2018 and certainly in 2019. He finally gets it and misses all of 2020 and almost all of 2021 and 2022. Finally, he gets 20 starts and 102.2 IP in 2023 and demonstrated that, if he can stay healthy, he can be effective.

 

The point is, that all those missed seasons--2020, 2021, and 2022--were the result of TJ surgery recovery and the bicycle accident in ST. What the Sox lost sight of was that by itself TJ surgery had given Sale a whole new life as a starter, once he had recovered and then once he got past the bicycle injury.

 

Both the Sox and the Braves had every opportunity to evaluate Sale in 2023, when he had the 20 starts, and they reached opposing conclusions. The Braves saw potential and the Sox saw a dead man walking. Braves smart, Sox dumb.

 

I invariably read your stuff because it's good. That doesn't mean we can't disagree.

 

I am not so sure Sale missed all that time just from TJ. For example, he missed the beginning of the 2022 season because he broke a rib in his off-season pitching program. In 2023, he had shoulder inflammation. I’m not saying these aren’t complications from TJ surgery. But I’m not convinced they are, either…

[Bellhorn04]

(Clearly even Sale lacked confidence in his durability. He pushed back free agency by two years and even overwrote a more lucrative option year. Those don't sound like the actions of a guy who knows he is back 100%.)

 

He pushed back free agency by one year. The Red Sox team option was for 2025. The Braves team option is for 2026.

[notin]

He pushed back free agency by one year. The Red Sox team option was for 2025. The Braves team option is for 2026.

 

Ok, but he pushed it back for the guaranteed year…

[Bellhorn04]

Ok, but he pushed it back for the guaranteed year…

 

Everything was pushed back one year.

[moonslav59]

I think that's the entire freaking point. Blame whoever you want to, but the Sox so-called brain trust seems to have lost its ability to make good decisions on which pitchers, especially starters, are worth acquiring/retaining and which are not.

 

As it has turned out this season, the key acquisition was Bailey, the pitching coach. Thanks to Bailey--or so we all believe--this is the best Sox pitching staff in a long time.

 

Our GMs have gotten a few pitching additions correct, and most were pre Brez. DD and Bloom got most of em…

 

We have more good homegrown pitchers that are decent to very good in over a decade.

 

We acquired some good ones after Nate:

Pivetta

Whitlock

Schreiber

Bernardino

Kelly

Wink

Wacha

Strahm

Hill

Jansen

Martin

And more…

[Maxbialystock]

I am not so sure Sale missed all that time just from TJ. For example, he missed the beginning of the 2022 season because he broke a rib in his off-season pitching program. In 2023, he had shoulder inflammation. I’m not saying these aren’t complications from TJ surgery. But I’m not convinced they are, either…

 

I'm fine however you want to define/describe Sale's time out between TJ surgery in 2020 and last season, 2023, when he had 20 starts. The point to me is that he didn't "use up" what the TJ surgery had given him. He simply took 4 years--2020-2023--to recover from it. And, when he did recover, he was good as new, or so the Braves thought last year and the Sox very clearly did not.

[moonslav59]

I'm fine however you want to define/describe Sale's time out between TJ surgery in 2020 and last season, 2023, when he had 20 starts. The point to me is that he didn't "use up" what the TJ surgery had given him. He simply took 4 years--2020-2023--to recover from it. And, when he did recover, he was good as new, or so the Braves thought last year and the Sox very clearly did not.

 

Except, he had multiple different injuries, some not baseball related. Hard for a GM to be blamed for that part..

[Maxbialystock]

Our GMs have gotten a few pitching additions correct, and most were pre Brez. DD and Bloom got most of em…

 

We have more good homegrown pitchers that are decent to very good in over a decade.

 

We acquired some good ones after Nate:

Pivetta

Whitlock

Schreiber

Bernardino

Kelly

Wink

Wacha

Strahm

Hill

Jansen

Martin

And more…

 

Sorry, but I disagree. In the entire JH era the two best Sox pitching staffs in terms of team ERA are 2007 and 2024.

 

And 2024 is also the pitching staff most neglected by the Sox brain trust because they are paying Sale $17M to pitch for Atlanta and are paying Giolito, who at best will get a part season next year, $38M. They've had Jansen for two years, and last year the Sox pitching stunk with him, so he is not the difference maker you claim.

 

This year Jansen's pitched 33.1 IP and is being paid $16M. Houck (117 IP), Crawford (112.2), Bello (89.2), Pivetta (75.1), Criswell (58), and Winck (41.1) have pitched 494 innings and are being paid a combined salary of I think $12M.

 

If anything, Breslow did his level best to sabotage this year's pitching staff--except of course for insisting on a new pitching coach, who turned out to be Bailey, a gem who without question managed to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse.

[moonslav59]

Sorry, but I disagree. In the entire JH era the two best Sox pitching staffs in terms of team ERA are 2007 and 2024.

 

And 2024 is also the pitching staff most neglected by the Sox brain trust because they are paying Sale $17M to pitch for Atlanta and are paying Giolito, who at best will get a part season next year, $38M. They've had Jansen for two years, and last year the Sox pitching stunk with him, so he is not the difference maker you claim.

 

This year Jansen's pitched 33.1 IP and is being paid $16M. Houck (117 IP), Crawford (112.2), Bello (89.2), Pivetta (75.1), Criswell (58), and Winck (41.1) have pitched 494 innings and are being paid a combined salary of I think $12M.

 

If anything, Breslow did his level best to sabotage this year's pitching staff--except of course for insisting on a new pitching coach, who turned out to be Bailey, a gem who without question managed to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse.

 

Brez was key in getting Bailey, so sabotaging does not fit.

 

I did not intend my list of added pitchers, outside of homegrowns to say we have done great, but just to point out that it hasn’t been all bad.

 

If we are getting these results from the 2024 staff via sabotage, then I hope we see more of it over the next 10 years.

 

I’m thinking DD was wrongly criticised for “neglecting the farm,” some called it even worse.

 

I’m thinking some of Bloom’s moves are looking a little better, now, too. Had Whitlock and Martin not gotten hurt, it might look even better.

 

Brez did add Criswell and Slaten.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Duran Is The Man]

Brez was key in getting Bailey, so sabotaging does not fit.

 

I did not intend my list of added pitchers, outside of homegrowns to say we have done great, but just to point out that it hasn’t been all bad.

 

If we are getting these results from the 2024 staff via sabotage, then I hope we see more of it over the next 10 years.

 

I’m thinking DD was wrongly criticised for “neglecting the farm,” some called it even worse.

 

I’m thinking some of Bloom’s moves are looking a little better, now, too. Had Whitlock and Martin not gotten hurt, it might look even better.

 

Brez did add Criswell and Slaten.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

until one of Bloom's players starts putting up Mookiesque numbers, he'll always be a turd to me.

[notin]

until one of Bloom's players starts putting up Mookiesque numbers, he'll always be a turd to me.

 

Bloom is irrelevant in the Mookie Drama. Dombrowski tried to extend Mookie going as far back as 2017, but was never allowed to meet Mookie’s contractual demands. Bloom was just the hatchet man for that trade…

[Duran Is The Man]

Bloom is irrelevant in the Mookie Drama. Dombrowski tried to extend Mookie going as far back as 2017, but was never allowed to meet Mookie’s contractual demands. Bloom was just the hatchet man for that trade…

 

all that does is make me believe that JH is a turd too.

[moonslav59]

Bloom is irrelevant in the Mookie Drama. Dombrowski tried to extend Mookie going as far back as 2017, but was never allowed to meet Mookie’s contractual demands. Bloom was just the hatchet man for that trade…

 

DD almost traded Betts in 2019. To me, that is all the evidence I need to know the Betts trade was not on the GM position.

 

There is enough other fodder to lob at Bloom to last for pages and pages… oh wait, been there- done that.

[moonslav59]

What’s up with Bogey?

 

Not hearing much on that “botched” non signing, lately.

[Bellhorn04]

What’s up with Bogey?

 

Not hearing much on that “botched” non signing, lately.

 

He's still doing better than Story.

[Hugh2]

He's still doing better than Story.

 

I dunno, I'd rather have $75 million on the IL than $237 million on the IL.

 

Also, seeing how he has -.1 WAR this year and Story has 0 War, Story has actually contributed more to the Sox.

[Old Red]

What’s up with Bogey?

 

Not hearing much on that “botched” non signing, lately.

 

What’s up with the poster who yelled sham, sham, sham at the top of his lungs all offseason. Not hearing much on that front.

[Hugh2]

What’s up with the poster who yelled sham, sham, sham at the top of his lungs all offseason. Not hearing much on that front.

 

I mean.....haven't we all changed our tune with this team???

[Old Red]

DD almost traded Betts in 2019. To me, that is all the evidence I need to know the Betts trade was not on the GM position.

 

There is enough other fodder to lob at Bloom to last for pages and pages… oh wait, been there- done that.

 

Nothing can change the three losing last place in the division finishes under Bloom. Unfortunately the Red Sox did that.

[Bellhorn04]

I dunno, I'd rather have $75 million on the IL than $237 million on the IL.

 

Also, seeing how he has -.1 WAR this year and Story has 0 War, Story has actually contributed more to the Sox.

 

Bogaerts is doing better than Story since Bogaerts joined the Padres. And Bogaerts still has a few months to contribute to the Padres this year.

[Old Red]

I mean.....haven't we all changed our tune with this team???

 

Most have, but I was one of the few who kept preaching to wait until Mar 28 to see what the team looked like, and then to see what happened from there.

[Old Red]

Bogaerts is doing better than Story since Bogaerts joined the Padres. And Bogaerts still has a few months to contribute to the Padres this year.

 

Story had a bad arm when he was signed by the Red Sox, and things have gone downhill from there. Bogey wasn’t worth the contract he got from SD, but he would have been worth a better contract from DD in the first place, so he might have had just another year, or two to run.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Bogaerts is doing better than Story since Bogaerts joined the Padres. And Bogaerts still has a few months to contribute to the Padres this year.

 

Bogaerts was a four-time Silver Slugger who won two rings in Boston. Nobody has come even close to playing at that level at shortstop since he left.

 

The middle infield has been so shaky the past two years, it is hard to understand how anyone can think the Red Sox wouldn't have more stability with him on the field.

 

And spare me the San Diego contract numbers, because every poster here agrees Xander wanted to stay in Boston, and probably would've signed for Story money when Bloom pivoted instead to a bad-elbowed, Coors-inflated strikeout king.

[Old Red]

Bogaerts was a four-time Silver Slugger who won two rings in Boston. Nobody has come even close to playing at that level at shortstop since he left.

 

The middle infield has been so shaky the past two years, it is hard to understand how anyone can think the Red Sox wouldn't have more stability with him on the field.

 

And spare me the San Diego contract numbers, because every poster here agrees Xander wanted to stay in Boston, and probably would've signed for Story money when Bloom pivoted instead to a bad-elbowed, Coors-inflated strikeout king.

 

Well said, and Bogey should still be here. I know many have crowned Mayer as the next chosen one, but he may never accomplish ALL that Bogey did in a Red Sox uniform.

[Bellhorn04]

Bogaerts was a four-time Silver Slugger who won two rings in Boston. Nobody has come even close to playing at that level at shortstop since he left.

 

The middle infield has been so shaky the past two years, it is hard to understand how anyone can think the Red Sox wouldn't have more stability with him on the field.

 

And spare me the San Diego contract numbers, because every poster here agrees Xander wanted to stay in Boston, and probably would've signed for Story money when Bloom pivoted instead to a bad-elbowed, Coors-inflated strikeout king.

 

And I think Bloom was just the hatchet man with Bogaerts too. Henry had to sign off on that insult offer they made.

[Old Red]

And I think Bloom was just the hatchet man with Bogaerts too.

 

Was that before, or after he slapped Bogey across the face with that lowball contract ext offer.