Chris Sale traded to Braves

[mvp 78]

Seriously? You don’t think JH cares about all that dead money that it would give him pause to spend anymore?

 

He shouldn't own professional sports teams anymore if that would give him pause.

[mvp 78]

JH isn't shelling out a nickel. He's just getting fatter and fatter. Fans fund the team.

 

^^^

[mvp 78]

The deal did make sense. Sale didn’t give the Sox much for numerous years, and there was a reason we liked the deal at the time.

 

And now Grissom is an “OK prospect”? Some hindsighted downgrading? Or were the Braves - the same team you credit with seeing something in Sale - just flat out wrong when the promoted Grissom to MLB at age 21? How many Ok prospects make MLB at that age?

 

I guess we should downgrade Marcelo Mayer to “mediocre prospect”, or maybe just remove his prospect label altogether. I mean, Mayer hasn’t even sniffed MLB yet, and unless he gets promoted tomorrow, he will be older than Grissom was for his MLB debut. (And there’s no chance of that since there are no games tomorrow.)

 

Mayer is a higher rated prospect now than Grissom ever was.

[Bellhorn04]

I think having some hindsight on this deal is fair, because I don't think anyone thought at the time that the only addition would be Giolito. We were all dreaming bigger than that, and that played into assessments of this move.

[mvp 78]

"OK prospect" came from mvp, who knows prospects much better than me, so take it up with him.

 

He was like the 4th ranked Braves prospect. A decent prospect for the deal. I'm not saying he was "ok" overall, just ok in terms of the deal. At the time of the deal, he would have been ranked somewhere in the Sox top 10. Maybe higher than Fitts?

[notin]

Mayer is a higher rated prospect now than Grissom ever was.

 

Ratings or not, Grissom made his MLB debut at 21 years 217 days old. As of today, Mayer is 21 years 216 days old. Care to revisit this on Wednesday?

 

The man made MLB at age 21. That’s a crazy accomplishment, and not something done by an “ok prospect”…

[mvp 78]

I think having some hindsight on this deal is fair, because I don't think anyone thought at the time that the only addition would be Giolito. We were all dreaming bigger than that, and that played into assessments of this move.

 

At the time, there were lots of reports about his power outage and questions on how much he could provide. I believe Law stated that he had a decent line drive swing and that he'd be fine overall, but was just in need of a new position. The greatest concern was his bad defense at SS.

[mvp 78]

Ratings or not, Grissom made his MLB debut at 21 years 217 days old. As of today, Mayer is 21 years 216 days old. Care to revisit this on Wednesday?

 

The man made MLB at age 21. That’s a crazy accomplishment, and not something done by an “ok prospect”…

 

Feel free to pick those nits if you want.

[Old Red]

JH isn't shelling out a nickel. He's just getting fatter and fatter. Fans fund the team.

 

I agree, but like I’ve been saying for the last few years is that this is not the same JH today as when he first bought the team. This is not the same JH that went to the Felger, and Mazz show ten years ago to defend the Way the Red Sox are being run, but is now the JH in an interview just the other day didn’t even want to talk about the Red Sox.

[notin]

He was like the 4th ranked Braves prospect. A decent prospect for the deal. I'm not saying he was "ok" overall, just ok in terms of the deal. At the time of the deal, he would have been ranked somewhere in the Sox top 10. Maybe higher than Fitts?

 

He was the reason the Sox paid $17mill in that deal. The Sox could have dumped even more money, but they wanted actual baseball talent in return.

 

Atlanta wasn’t going to take that full financial risk and give up Grissom all at once. Even they had reservations about Sale’s durability…

[notin]

Feel free to pick those nits if you want.

 

It gets done to me daily:)

[Old Red]

He shouldn't own professional sports teams anymore if that would give him pause.

 

Like I said before I think the Red Sox are just an old toy to him that isn’t as fun to play with anymore.

[mvp 78]

It gets done to me daily:)

 

Incorrect. I rarely log in on the weekend.

[Bellhorn04]

Like I said before I think the Red Sox are just an old toy to him that isn’t as fun to play with anymore.

 

Yeah, with some kids, the more new toys they get, the more bored they get with them.

[Maxbialystock]

And if Henry, Breslow, etc. thought Sale would be healthy, this deal didn’t happen. And neither does Giolito…

 

I think that's the entire freaking point. Blame whoever you want to, but the Sox so-called brain trust seems to have lost its ability to make good decisions on which pitchers, especially starters, are worth acquiring/retaining and which are not.

 

As it has turned out this season, the key acquisition was Bailey, the pitching coach. Thanks to Bailey--or so we all believe--this is the best Sox pitching staff in a long time.

[Old Red]

Yeah, with some kids, the more new toys they get, the more bored they get with them.

 

Especially rich kids.

[Bellhorn04]

I think that's the entire freaking point. Blame whoever you want to, but the Sox so-called brain trust seems to have lost its ability to make good decisions on which pitchers, especially starters, are worth acquiring/retaining and which are not.

 

As it has turned out this season, the key acquisition was Bailey, the pitching coach. Thanks to Bailey--or so we all believe--this is the best Sox pitching staff in a long time.

 

They got incredibly lucky when they chanced into Breslow, because I think Breslow is the one who landed Bailey.

[notin]

Incorrect. I rarely log in on the weekend.

 

You think you’re alone in nitpicking me?

 

Newsflash. You have competition…

[mvp 78]

You have competition…

 

What the hell?

[mvp 78]

They got incredibly lucky when they chanced into Breslow, because I think Breslow is the one who landed Bailey.

 

Yes on both counts.

[Maxbialystock]

Yeah, with some kids, the more new toys they get, the more bored they get with them.

 

Oh, stuff it. JH underwrote one the top payrolls in MLB every freaking season from 2003 to 2019, and in 2021 and 2022 it was 6th biggest. That's 2 freaking decades of "new toyism."

[Maxbialystock]

Yes on both counts.

 

Agree and would add that I think Breslow insisted the old pitching coach had to be replaced.

[Bellhorn04]

Oh, stuff it. JH underwrote one the top payrolls in MLB every freaking season from 2003 to 2019, and in 2021 and 2022 it was 6th biggest. That's 2 freaking decades of "new toyism."

 

Like I say, it's not his money. He gets rich off the fans, not vice versa.

 

He was a great owner until the moment he okayed trading Betts.

[mvp 78]

2020 - under CBT

2021 - under CBT

2022 - oops went over thanks to Bloom's JBJ trade

2023 - under CBT

2024 - probably under CBT

 

Two decades of dominance... no longer.

[mvp 78]

Like I say, it's not his money. He gets rich off the fans, not vice versa.

 

He was a great owner until the moment he okayed trading Betts.

 

Yes, dicking around with Lester was one thing. When you have a true franchise player like Betts, you do NOT let that guy walk out that door.

[Old Red]

And if Henry, Breslow, etc. thought Sale would be healthy, this deal didn’t happen. And neither does Giolito…

 

That may have been part of it, but I think the Braves came to the Red Sox as they had been interested in Sale before, and made an offer of a suspect at a position the Red Sox had a need for. Supposedly Bloom had offers for Sale, but wouldn’t agree. Brez wanted Gio, and couldn’t quite afford both, and made the deal.

[Old Red]

They got incredibly lucky when they chanced into Breslow, because I think Breslow is the one who landed Bailey.

 

I don’t know if getting Brez was lucky, but more like addition by subtraction.

[Old Red]

I think that's the entire freaking point. Blame whoever you want to, but the Sox so-called brain trust seems to have lost its ability to make good decisions on which pitchers, especially starters, are worth acquiring/retaining and which are not.

 

As it has turned out this season, the key acquisition was Bailey, the pitching coach. Thanks to Bailey--or so we all believe--this is the best Sox pitching staff in a long time.

 

If you are John Henry, you have to be wondering why year in and year out you spent a king's ransom of starting pitchers who didn't deliver.

 

And let's get real specific. This year's brain trust, including Breslow, all agreed it made sense to hand over $17M to the Braves for them to take Chris Sale off their hands. That alone is compelling evidence the Sox brain trust is consummately stupid and that the Braves brain trust knows what they are doing.

Agree with most, but I wouldn’t go so far on the brain trust. I’m not sold on Brez at all, but may change my mind in two weeks. Then again I might not. Watching that road very closely to see which direction they take.

[Maxbialystock]

Like I say, it's not his money. He gets rich off the fans, not vice versa.

 

He was a great owner until the moment he okayed trading Betts.

 

He was a great owner because he hired a good brain trust and underwrote--with on averaged among the highest payrolls in MLB--their recommendations. And he did that from 2002 through 2019. Plus the 2021 and 2022 payrolls were 6th highest in MLB. Those teams ended the 86 year drought and brought 4 WS titles.

 

As for trading Betts in 2019, the Sox already had the highest payroll in MLB and did not make the playoffs--with Mookie and a bunch of other presumably great and expensive players.

 

At the same time--say August 2019--DD had to tell John Henry, "boss, I know we already have the biggest payroll in MLB, but I need a whole bunch more to keep Mookie (the Dodgers want him bad and will big very high). Plus, sad to say, our two very pricey starters, Price and Sale, are out of action. We have to keep paying them tons of money, but we also need to spend a bunch more to get two new reliable starters."

[Maxbialystock]

Agree with most, but I wouldn’t go so far on the brain trust. I’m not sold on Brez at all, but may change my mind in two weeks. Then again I might not. Watching that road very closely to see which direction they take.

 

We are over halfway through this season and the Sox are 11 games above .500 with the 5th best team ERA in MLB. Given the loss of both Sale and Giolito and that Houck and Crawford were not expected to do anywhere near as well this season as they have, Breslow is a genius even if either or both struggles down the road.

 

And oh, by the way, Whitlock, Bello, Winck, Pivetta, and Criswell have all already had their problems this season. Same goes for the bullpen.