Red Sox ownership

[notin]

I’ll be calling for a full fire sale of one year players, if we end up with less than this:

 

Imanaga or Stroman

Giolito or Paxton

Drury or Polanco via trade

 

Since the odds are very low we do this much or more, it looks like a P, to me.

 

What if they win 50 of their first 80? Still fire sale?

[mvp 78]

You know they care about public perception since they still have a picture of Xander up on FSG's website!

 

https://fenwaysportsgroup.com/who-we-are/

[jad]

What if they win 50 of their first 80? Still fire sale?

 

Good question. Equally good questions: what if they win all of them? What if RS pitchers pitch 80 shutouts? What if McGuire has 69 home runs by then? What if they trade a prospect for Mookie? What if Ted comes back from the cryo-sphere and hits .411? We really should consider these questions in detail before making any judgments on the team.

[moonslav59]

What if they win 50 of their first 80? Still fire sale?

 

I’m saying fire sale now, so hell yes! Sell and then win 50 of 80!

[a700hitter]

Tourist trap.

I like Kowloons

[a700hitter]

Houck/Duran for Steele

That would be a steal.

[moonslav59]

That would be a steal.

 

I’d throw in Yorke.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm really starting to wonder if being part of FSG is hurting the Red Sox.

 

If there's any "robbing Peter to pay Paul" going on, the Red Sox and their fans sure look like they're playing the role of Peter.

[Hugh2]

I'm really starting to wonder if being part of FSG is hurting the Red Sox.

 

If there's any "robbing Peter to pay Paul" going on, the Red Sox and their fans sure look like they're playing Peter.

 

I'm at a point now where I certainly believe that Henry and Co. do not care as much about the Sox as they once did. I don't think they're completely apathetic, but rather bottom line is of the upmost importance than winning (at least until the bottom line starts to take a big hit)

 

What I continue to disbelieve, and seems to defy every law of business and economics, is that they're robbing peter to pay paul.

 

They have money, they have plenty of equity and the ability to leverage debt to take on any venture they want. They don't need, nor are they funneling money out of Fenways and using to invest elswhere. That's just a narrative that isn't true.

 

That doesn't mean they're not 100% responsible for their product on the field and deserve all the relevant criticism in the world.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I'm really starting to wonder if being part of FSG is hurting the Red Sox.

 

If there's any "robbing Peter to pay Paul" going on, the Red Sox and their fans sure look like they're playing the role of Peter.

 

The Sox better make some significant moves soon, or even peter-hards are going to peter out.

[Bellhorn04]

What I continue to disbelieve, and seems to defy every law of business and economics, is that they're robbing peter to pay paul.

 

They have money, they have plenty of equity and the ability to leverage debt to take on any venture they want. They don't need, nor are they funneling money out of Fenways and using to invest elswhere. That's just a narrative that isn't true.

 

You don't think it's even a possibility?

[Hugh2]

I’d throw in Yorke.

 

I don't think DUran is going to hold a lot of weight in Chicago. They already have Ian Happ and Suzuki out in the outfield and the top of their farm is loaded with outfiedlers. Although Miguel Bleis might be more intriguing to them. He is further away, so the need could be there by the time he is ready or used in a trade elsewhere and he offers more upside than a guy like Duran. Which is ultimately what you need to offer up for a premium player.

 

BTV (the end all of all trade arguments) does accept this trade.

 

Nick Yorke

Miguel Bleis

Tanner Houck

 

For Yan Gomes and Justin Steele.

[Hugh2]

You don't think it's even a possibility?

 

I would say it's more likely that they are than it is that an asteroid hits eart today. And to be fair, both are not impossible.

 

I just don't see healthy corporations operating like that. I don't think it's a lack of committment as much as it's incompetence.

 

John Henry has a history of being an industry leader, being first, and gaining a competitive edge. He tried to be the smartest guy in the room again and this time he fell flat on his face. Thats how I see it.

[notin]

I don't think DUran is going to hold a lot of weight in Chicago. They already have Ian Happ and Suzuki out in the outfield and the top of their farm is loaded with outfiedlers. Although Miguel Bleis might be more intriguing to them. He is further away, so the need could be there by the time he is ready or used in a trade elsewhere and he offers more upside than a guy like Duran. Which is ultimately what you need to offer up for a premium player.

 

BTV (the end all of all trade arguments) does accept this trade.

 

Nick Yorke

Miguel Bleis

Tanner Houck

 

For Yan Gomes and Justin Steele.

 

The Cubs were closer to the postseason than Boston and are not going to trade Steele in order to step backwards. Despite their lack of activity this off-season (they remain the only team to add no players to their 40 man this off-season), they’re not likely going into sell mode.

 

Teams with pitching surpluses that might be willing to deal include Miami and Houston…

[Bellhorn04]

I would say it's more likely that they are than it is that an asteroid hits eart today. And to be fair, both are not impossible.

 

I just don't see healthy corporations operating like that. I don't think it's a lack of committment as much as it's incompetence.

 

John Henry has a history of being an industry leader, being first, and gaining a competitive edge. He tried to be the smartest guy in the room again and this time he fell flat on his face. Thats how I see it.

 

Sports teams are kind of unique businesses, though. Some of the losing teams make a pile more money than some of the winning teams.

 

Have the last two 78 win seasons hurt the Sox bottom line or market value? Only the accountants know for sure.

[moonslav59]

I think they will spend large, again, some day, but who knows?

 

They may be thinking they will wait until the 3 top prospects are up and adjusted, and while Casas, Bello and others still have 2-3 years left. Maybe that is “the window” they identifies as the all in period for spending.

 

They may never spend large, again, for all I know.

 

Whodathunk it was a 7-8 year rebuild from the start?

 

Maybe all those HS draft picks was a sign.

[sk7326]

I think they will spend large, again, some day, but who knows?

 

They may be thinking they will wait until the 3 top prospects are up and adjusted, and while Casas, Bello and others still have 2-3 years left. Maybe that is “the window” they identifies as the all in period for spending.

 

They may never spend large, again, for all I know.

 

Whodathunk it was a 7-8 year rebuild from the start?

 

Maybe all those HS draft picks was a sign.

 

A 7 or 8 year rebuild is crazy bananapants for a franchise like the Sox.

[notin]

I think they will spend large, again, some day, but who knows?

 

They may be thinking they will wait until the 3 top prospects are up and adjusted, and while Casas, Bello and others still have 2-3 years left. Maybe that is “the window” they identifies as the all in period for spending.

 

They may never spend large, again, for all I know.

 

Whodathunk it was a 7-8 year rebuild from the start?

 

Maybe all those HS draft picks was a sign.

 

Hopefully the Red Sox (or any team ever) doesn’t look at their AA roster and think “when these guys reach MLB…”. Hopefully the Sox have learned that it could be 7-8 years before any of them becomes a worthwhile core player.

 

And hopefully they realize even then, it’s unlikely anyone in the Sox farm system can hit like Devers and Casas. Why waste what they have already?

[Bellhorn04]

A 7 or 8 year rebuild is crazy bananapants for a franchise like the Sox.

 

That's a nice way of saying "gross incompetence".

[moonslav59]

Sports teams are kind of unique businesses, though. Some of the losing teams make a pile more money than some of the winning teams.

 

Have the last two 78 win seasons hurt the Sox bottom line or market value? Only the accountants know for sure.

 

It does seem like there are multiple ways to make a ton of money in baseball. All the side businesses like cable, concessions and memorabilia add up.

 

Maybe JH & Co. Have chosen a different model and will never come close to matching the top spenders, ever again. Maybe they splurge for a year or two, then duck back under by year 3.

 

It’s hard to get a read on even the short term plan, so 2-5 years out is impossible.

[Hugh2]

Sports teams are kind of unique businesses, though. Some of the losing teams make a pile more money than some of the winning teams.

 

Have the last two 78 win seasons hurt the Sox bottom line or market value? Only the accountants know for sure.

 

I don't think it's hard to predict that at all. It's like predicting the climate. Sure, weather varies day to day but you know darn well it will be cold in the winter and hot in the summer. It's easy to rack up a few losing seasons and live off your past success, but eventually that will erode. I think this is the year they start to feel it if this team is a loser. I still think they make money, but I would be surprised if revenues didn't go down during another losing season.

 

It's also generational. Kids grow up rooting for teams and then spend a lifetime as adults watching them, attending games, and buying jerseys. no one likes watching losers, a continuation of losing really hurts their future brand.

 

Shame on Henry if he doesn't know this.

[Hitch]

I'm really starting to wonder if being part of FSG is hurting the Red Sox.

 

If there's any "robbing Peter to pay Paul" going on, the Red Sox and their fans sure look like they're playing the role of Peter.

 

As a lifelong Liverpool fan, I can tell you, fans here have the exact same complaints about FSG, but are less in volume due to us being in with a shout of winning a lots of titles recently. That said, the club has outperformed its spending limits for years, mainly down the world class management structure they have in place.

 

So they aren't taking from that part of the pot for sure. I don't think it's a financial issue at all. I think it's more that their attention is now drawn in a dozen different directions, with the investment portfolio only increasing.

 

As an aside, when they took over at Liverpool, they conceded they knew nothing about football (soccer) and so put in experts that did. In baseball, I think they see themselves as the experts and so need no such favour from elsewhere.

[Old Red]

That's a nice way of saying "gross incompetence".

 

Gross incompetence, or preference?

[Old Red]

From Milliken on Cotillo agents dealing With the Red Sox this offseason want to know why the Red Sox are acting like a small market club.

[jad]

Gross incompetence, or preference?

 

This looks as if it is going exactly as ownership wants. (well, they'd like maybe 20 more wins to appear by magic each season, but if not, who cares, really?)

[vjcsmoke]

From Milliken on Cotillo agents dealing With the Red Sox this offseason want to know why the Red Sox are acting like a small market club.

 

Well I just read an article that confirms - the Red Sox have set a small market budget to avoid the luxury tax - 225m per season.

 

In fact the Red Sox have outright told some free agents that they can't pursue them unless they first shed payroll.

 

“According to baseball sources, the front office went into last winter with a mandated budget of $225 million, which was significantly under the first CBT threshold of $233 million,” Cotillo wrote. “Boston did not come close to paying the luxury tax in 2023, when the club finished last; estimations had Boston’s payroll just a hair over that $225 million mark by the end of the year.”

 

Despite Red Sox chairman Tom Werner’s claim of the team going “full throttle” this offseason, Boston’s spending habits have reportedly befuddled the rest of MLB, as well as several free agents.

 

“I’ve talked to a lot of agents this week and I made it a point to … talk to rival executives, talk to agents to see what the Red Sox were doing,” Chris Cotillo said on his “Fenway Rundown” podcast on Friday. “A few of them were just very clear – [the Red Sox] are acting like a small market team. ‘They like my player, but they are not going to be the aggressive bidders.’”

 

Article: https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/report-red-sox-told-free-agent-they-must-shed-payroll-before-aggressively-pursuing-him/ar-AA1mhsUg

 

This is pretty damning stuff. And it helps explain a lot about what has happened this offseason.

 

Red Sox budget is set at 225m and they won't spend more until they shed more payroll. Breslow might not be able to make significant moves until next season when more contracts expire.

 

But dumping Verdugo for chump change and trading away Chris Sale now make sense big picture-wise.

 

The Red Sox going "Full Throttle" is more like the Red Sox going 55 mph in a 70 mph zone. What a joke!

[Old Red]

Well I just read an article that confirms - the Red Sox have set a small market budget to avoid the luxury tax - 225m per season.

 

In fact the Red Sox have outright told some free agents that they can't pursue them unless they first shed payroll.

 

“According to baseball sources, the front office went into last winter with a mandated budget of $225 million, which was significantly under the first CBT threshold of $233 million,” Cotillo wrote. “Boston did not come close to paying the luxury tax in 2023, when the club finished last; estimations had Boston’s payroll just a hair over that $225 million mark by the end of the year.”

 

Despite Red Sox chairman Tom Werner’s claim of the team going “full throttle” this offseason, Boston’s spending habits have reportedly befuddled the rest of MLB, as well as several free agents.

 

“I’ve talked to a lot of agents this week and I made it a point to … talk to rival executives, talk to agents to see what the Red Sox were doing,” Chris Cotillo said on his “Fenway Rundown” podcast on Friday. “A few of them were just very clear – [the Red Sox] are acting like a small market team. ‘They like my player, but they are not going to be the aggressive bidders.’”

 

Article: https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/report-red-sox-told-free-agent-they-must-shed-payroll-before-aggressively-pursuing-him/ar-AA1mhsUg

 

This is pretty damning stuff. And it helps explain a lot about what has happened this offseason.

 

Red Sox budget is set at 225m and they won't spend more until they shed more payroll. Breslow might not be able to make significant moves until next season when more contracts expire.

 

But dumping Verdugo for chump change and trading away Chris Sale now make sense big picture-wise.

 

The Red Sox going "Full Throttle" is more like the Red Sox going 55 mph in a 70 mph zone. What a joke!

Maybe someone should have asked TW what he meant by h going full throttle.

[notin]

Maybe someone should have asked TW what he meant by h going full throttle.

 

Maybe he meant he would fully throttle the necks of all the fans?

Edited December 31, 2023 by notin

[Old Red]

Maybe he meant he would fully throttle the necks of s as ll the fans?

 

🙈🤭🤮.

[Randy Red Sox]

It does seem like there are multiple ways to make a ton of money in baseball. All the side businesses like cable, concessions and memorabilia add up.

 

Maybe JH & Co. Have chosen a different model and will never come close to matching the top spenders, ever again. Maybe they splurge for a year or two, then duck back under by year 3.

 

It’s hard to get a read on even the short term plan, so 2-5 years out is impossible.

 

well maybe if Henry and co actually told the fans what the actual plan was it could clarify things. Remember though Henry pulled this same s*** with the Marlins before dumping them.