A Realistic View of 2023: Part II

[moonslav59]

He's probably better than Arroyo at this point.

 

So far, yes, but I think Arroyo is going to get back to .710-.760.

[mvp 78]

So far, yes, but I think Arroyo is going to get back to .710-.760.

 

Exit Velo Bottom 1%

XBA Bottom 1%

XSLG Bottom 1%

WOBA Bottom 1%

XWOBA Bottom 1%

HardHit Bottom 3%

Brl Bottom 1%

BB Bottom 11%

Chase Bottom 13%

[moonslav59]

Exit Velo Bottom 1%

XBA Bottom 1%

XSLG Bottom 1%

WOBA Bottom 1%

XWOBA Bottom 1%

HardHit Bottom 3%

Brl Bottom 1%

BB Bottom 11%

Chase Bottom 13%

 

Looks really bad for this small sample size.

 

If he doesn't turn it around, certainlt Chang could beat him out for playing time, but it's not like Chang is lighting things up, either.

 

Man, our middle IF has been a major cluster ____!

 

[notin]

He's probably better than Arroyo at this point.

 

The biggest issue with Iglesias is the Dodgers might also have interest. With Lux, Rojas, and Taylor all out they certainly have the need

[Maxbialystock]

Rays were on a hot stretch. Sox hadn't figured it out.

 

There's time for the Sox to get their identity and to become a more competent team.

 

The Rays have yet to lose at the Trop this season.

[moonslav59]

The biggest issue with Iglesias is the Dodgers might also have interest. With Lux, Rojas, and Taylor all out they certainly have the need

 

He may prefer the Sox, since he did well here in 2021.

 

It might come down to where he thinks he will play more and for longer.

 

With Mondesi on the 60, maybe that is BOS.

[moonslav59]

The Rays have yet to lose at the Trop this season.

 

I tried to tell you guys, the park is fine.

[Maxbialystock]

@mlbtraderumors

Jose Iglesias Opts Out Of Deal With Marlins

 

The Sox have never liked good fielding SS's, except on a temporary basis. They dumped Gonzalez once and Iglesias twice. When they decided good hitting Bogaerts was going to be unaffordable, they took the plunge on Story. At SS their rule is, "bat first, glove second." In the John Henry era that has resulted in 4 WS wins.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Maxbialystock

[Hugh2]

The Sox have never liked good fielding SS's, except on a temporary basis. They dumped Gonzalez once and Iglesias twice. When they decided good hitting Bogaerts was going to be unaffordable, they took the plunge on Story. At SS their rule is, "bat first, glove second." In the John Henry era that has resulted in 4 WS wins.

 

Have they?

 

Nomar who's defense was on a serious decline used to be elite, but they traded him away for a defensive upgrade. Julio Lugo wasn't a bad fielding shortstop either and was considered a plus short stop, in 2013 they had Stephen Drew who was also a good short stop. Bogaerts was never a bad fielding short stop, he's just a gold glove caliber fielding short stop, maybe average.

 

I'd say the Sox like offensive-minded shorts stops who can at least be average on defense more than saying they don't like short stops who can't field.

[moonslav59]

The Sox have never liked good fielding SS's, except on a temporary basis. They dumped Gonzalez once and Iglesias twice.

 

It does look that way. It's something I never fully understood.

 

Most innings at SS since 2001:

DRS/UZR-150

10390 Bogey -50/+0.8

3017 Nomar -5/-6.9

2143 Lugo -21/-7.9

2095 Scutaro -3/-1.9

1432 Drew -5/+10.9

1327 Alex Gonzo 0/+14.4

1293 Renteria -13/-9.6

1170 Aviles 15/+6.5

1124 Lowrie -1/+2.8

1071 Cora 10/+4.8

644 N Green 0/+3.0

508 Reese 12/+19.8

491 OCab 6/-5.0 (I felt he was a plus on D)

483 Iggy 5/+17.2

398 Holt -2/+5.2

231 Lin -7/-8.0

164 Ciriaco -2/-18.5

122 Arauz -1/+17.2

120 Herrera 1/+132.

 

1972-2023

10390 Bogey

8749 Burleson

8348 Nomar

4808 Valantin (underrated)

4203 Hoffman

3713 Rivera

2143 Lugo

2095 Scutaro

2086 Owen

2040 Aparicio (3097 career w Sox)

1976 Gutierrez

1815 Reed

1432 Drew

1327 Gonzo

1293 Renteria

1170 Aviles

1124 Lowrie

1074 Guerrero

1071 Cora

 

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

Have they?

 

Nomar who's defense was on a serious decline used to be elite, but they traded him away for a defensive upgrade. Julio Lugo wasn't a bad fielding shortstop either and was considered a plus short stop, in 2013 they had Stephen Drew who was also a good short stop. Bogaerts was never a bad fielding short stop, he's just a gold glove caliber fielding short stop, maybe average.

 

I'd say the Sox like offensive-minded shorts stops who can at least be average on defense more than saying they don't like short stops who can't field.

 

I'm not sure Nomar was ever elite.

 

I agree on Lugo. He declined after the knee injury (last 3 years of 4 years)

 

Bogey is not above average on D in my book. He is among the bottom 2-3 on DRA and near average on UZR/150. The Fielding Bible never liked Bogey.

 

Scutaro was not good.

 

Renteria was good, but played hurt, for us.

 

As things turned out, due sometimes to injury, 6 of our top 7 SSs by innings since 2001, were not plus on DRS and UZR/150.

 

4 of 7 were negative on both, while Bogey was very close to being neg-neg.

[notin]

The Sox have never liked good fielding SS's, except on a temporary basis. They dumped Gonzalez once and Iglesias twice. When they decided good hitting Bogaerts was going to be unaffordable, they took the plunge on Story. At SS their rule is, "bat first, glove second." In the John Henry era that has resulted in 4 WS wins.

 

Most of the league opted for hitting shortstops in the 1990’s, and players like Nomar, Jeter, ARod and Miguel Tejada were the stars. That wasn’t just a Sox Thing; many teams were doing it.

 

(Technically they had Alex Gonzalez twice in 2006 and again in 2009.)

 

Right now they don’t have an active SS who excels in either aspect. So while a glove-first guy might not be utmost on the minds of Sox’ fans, it’s still a step up.

 

At this point in his career, Iglesias might only be a utility infielder. But with the Sox MI depth and injuries, it’s worth a shot…

[moonslav59]

Here are the Sox current fWAR team rankings by position:

 

3rd CF +1.3 (thanks to Duvall's start)

6th 3B +1.0

6th RF +1.0

11 Catcher 0.5

18 LF +0.2

22 SS -0.1

24 2B-0.3

25 DH -0.2

27 1B -0.4

_______________

 

12 RP +0.7

26 Pitching +0.5

28 SP -0.2

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Chaim has retorted interest in Iglesias, but only if he agrees to report to Worcester first to stretch out his legs in right field. The plan is build up his value as a more versatile call-up, and potential righty platoon partner with all the lefty outfielders. When asked about the idea, Dugie said, "Please stay f***ing fair..."

[Maxbialystock]

Most of the league opted for hitting shortstops in the 1990’s, and players like Nomar, Jeter, ARod and Miguel Tejada were the stars. That wasn’t just a Sox Thing; many teams were doing it.

 

(Technically they had Alex Gonzalez twice in 2006 and again in 2009.)

 

Right now they don’t have an active SS who excels in either aspect. So while a glove-first guy might not be utmost on the minds of Sox’ fans, it’s still a step up.

 

At this point in his career, Iglesias might only be a utility infielder. But with the Sox MI depth and injuries, it’s worth a shot…

 

Preaching to the choir. I was pissed when the Sox didn't try to keep Iglesias after the 2021 season. And I assumed it was their asinine preference for hitters over fielders, even at SS. Plus of course they had their eyes on Story, whom they paid big bucks for. And they assumed that Kike and others could cover SS.

[Hugh2]

Preaching to the choir. I was pissed when the Sox didn't try to keep Iglesias after the 2021 season. And I assumed it was their asinine preference for hitters over fielders, even at SS. Plus of course they had their eyes on Story, whom they paid big bucks for. And they assumed that Kike and others could cover SS.

 

To be fair, at the time they thought they were going to be able to resign Bogaerts.

[notin]

To be fair, at the time they thought they were going to be able to resign Bogaerts.

 

Their efforts in that department are up for debate…

[Maxbialystock]

Their efforts in that department are up for debate…

 

I liked Bogey. A lot. But I thought his price was too high. So of course right now he is absolutely gangbusters in San Diego with a WAR of +1.3.

[Hugh2]

Their efforts in that department are up for debate…

 

They obviously wanted to. They just did a piss poor job of analyzing the market and low balled him. That doesn't equate to poor effort, or at the very least in my book it equates to being inept.

[Hugh2]

I liked Bogey. A lot. But I thought his price was too high. So of course right now he is absolutely gangbusters in San Diego with a WAR of +1.3.

 

This was going to be part of a larger repsonse to Notins comment above.

 

I think if the Sox made larger effort to resign Bogaerts a year or two sooner they could have had him for less than SD offered him, maybe not I do not know. But at the point in time his price tag went up I don't blame them from walking away either.

[Nick]

I liked Bogey. A lot. But I thought his price was too high. So of course right now he is absolutely gangbusters in San Diego with a WAR of +1.3.

 

His contract should be evaluated when his playing career is over...UNLESS San Diego gets to the world series or wins it. Otherwise he's just another superstar paid for his services but did not deliver what San Diego is clamoring for.

[moonslav59]

This was going to be part of a larger repsonse to Notins comment above.

 

I think if the Sox made larger effort to resign Bogaerts a year or two sooner they could have had him for less than SD offered him, maybe not I do not know. But at the point in time his price tag went up I don't blame them from walking away either.

 

I think pretty much everyone agrees.

 

I would like to know, for a fact, what the lowest price Bogey would have accepted and when that was. I think this matters when trying to retroactively assign blame (not that you are doing so, here.)

 

We may never know for sure what that number might have been, and even if Bogey ever discloses that amount, I'm not sure we can be certain, anyway.

 

If the number was $160M/6, or $180M/7 or even $200M/8, I think most of us would think we missed a chance to keep Bogey at a reasonable cost, but again, we just don't know.

 

The other thing is that while Bogey seems to be earning way more than $200M/8, when 8 years have passed, we may hold a different opinion.

 

I wish we could have found a way to keep him. I wish we would have gotten more for him, once we knew we were going to lose him. (I'm thinking they must have known, but that's speculation, too.)

[Maxbialystock]

I think pretty much everyone agrees.

 

I would like to know, for a fact, what the lowest price Bogey would have accepted and when that was. I think this matters when trying to retroactively assign blame (not that you are doing so, here.)

 

We may never know for sure what that number might have been, and even if Bogey ever discloses that amount, I'm not sure we can be certain, anyway.

 

If the number was $160M/6, or $180M/7 or even $200M/8, I think most of us would think we missed a chance to keep Bogey at a reasonable cost, but again, we just don't know.

 

The other thing is that while Bogey seems to be earning way more than $200M/8, when 8 years have passed, we may hold a different opinion.

 

I wish we could have found a way to keep him. I wish we would have gotten more for him, once we knew we were going to lose him. (I'm thinking they must have known, but that's speculation, too.)

 

Long. But thoughtful. Maybe San Diego reinvigorated him.

[Bellhorn04]

Bogey tends to be a fast starter with the stick.

[Randy Red Sox]

we need to move on from Bogarts as sad as it is that he is gone. We need to focus on the current roster that Chaim Bloom has constructed [ or destructed as it may be} Somehow our payroll is only slightly lower yet we are poised to finish last in the AL East for the 3rd year in Bloom's 4 year tenure in Boston. People keep talking about the vastly improved farm system Bloom has built but save for Mayer what true blue chip prospects has Bloom brought to Boston? And more importantly what blue chip pitching prospects has he added? Bloom came from an organization known for it's ability to draft and develop top young pitching talent.

 

We let several top players walk for nothing { Eovaldi, JDM, Bogaerts} when we SHOULD have gotten something back for all of them given we were out of the race at last yr's deadline.

[moonslav59]

what true blue chip prospects has Bloom brought to Boston?

 

Whitlock

[moonslav59]

what true blue chip prospects has Bloom brought to Boston?

 

Bleis

[moonslav59]

Bloom came from an organization known for it's ability to draft and develop top young pitching talent.

 

Develop not draft.

 

Steal from other teams not draft.

[Maxbialystock]

Sox beat Brewers tonight. Pass the word because not many were watching.

 

McGuire got pulled in the 6th, thank goodness. Now Cora needs to pull Kluber sooner--or not even start him.

[Larry Cook]

Bleis

 

Mayer