A Realistic View of 2023: Part II

[Maxbialystock]

we need to move on from Bogarts as sad as it is that he is gone. We need to focus on the current roster that Chaim Bloom has constructed [ or destructed as it may be} Somehow our payroll is only slightly lower yet we are poised to finish last in the AL East for the 3rd year in Bloom's 4 year tenure in Boston. People keep talking about the vastly improved farm system Bloom has built but save for Mayer what true blue chip prospects has Bloom brought to Boston? And more importantly what blue chip pitching prospects has he added? Bloom came from an organization known for it's ability to draft and develop top young pitching talent.

 

We let several top players walk for nothing { Eovaldi, JDM, Bogaerts} when we SHOULD have gotten something back for all of them given we were out of the race at last yr's deadline.

 

Stop whining, watch the games, and maybe learn something.

[jad]

I liked Bogey. A lot. But I thought his price was too high. So of course right now he is absolutely gangbusters in San Diego with a WAR of +1.3.

 

I liked Bogey. A lot. ... But since I am a fan, not a fantasy-player or a GM, I don't care what his price is.

Edited April 22, 2023 by jad

[Hugh2]

The Rays have played almost all last-place teams, we have played almost all first-place teams.

 

We're sitting at 11-10 and you can imagine an extra win or two in there if Sale and Whitlock hit the ground running. Duval looks good, Verdugo looks poised to have a breakout year, Yoshida and Casas see a lot of pitches if they break out the offense is going to scare people. There are reinforcements on the way, and Duran looks like he might have figured it out.

 

How can you not at least be a little optimistic about this team right now>???

[Bellhorn04]

The Rays have played almost all last-place teams, we have played almost all first-place teams.

 

We're sitting at 11-10 and you can imagine an extra win or two in there if Sale and Whitlock hit the ground running. Duval looks good, Verdugo looks poised to have a breakout year, Yoshida and Casas see a lot of pitches if they break out the offense is going to scare people. There are reinforcements on the way, and Duran looks like he might have figured it out.

 

How can you not at least be a little optimistic about this team right now>???

 

There are some positive signs now for sure.

[notin]

I liked Bogey. A lot. But I thought his price was too high. So of course right now he is absolutely gangbusters in San Diego with a WAR of +1.3.

 

I liked Bogaerts, too. And for Story money (or a tad more) I bring him back. There were stories that was what he wanted, but we will never actually know. (Players do sometimes say nonsensical things about their contract situation.)

 

I don’t think Bloom saw him as the SS of the long term future. I could be wrong about that, too…

[Maxbialystock]

I liked Bogey. A lot. ... But since I am a fan, not a fantasy-player or a GM, I don't care what his price is.

 

Fair enough. I'm not a GM or fantasy-player. I just don't like guys getting paid more than they are worth.

 

And it's entirely possible I'm wrong and you're right. Maybe those big salaries bring fans to the games.

[Bellhorn04]

I think if Bogaerts was being honest he would tell you he never expected to get anything like $280 mill.

 

Oddly the Padres with all their expensive stars are muddling along at 10-12.

[notin]

I think if Bogaerts was being honest he would tell you he never expected to get anything like $280 mill.

 

Oddly the Padres with all their expensive stars are muddling along at 10-12.

 

So… making a team entirely out of shortstops doesn’t work? That can’t be!

[Maxbialystock]

I think if Bogaerts was being honest he would tell you he never expected to get anything like $280 mill.

 

Oddly the Padres with all their expensive stars are muddling along at 10-12.

 

Muddling indeed. They also have the second best attendance in MLB with that losing record. Apparently, overpaid players still put butts in seats, and winning doesn't mean much.

[jad]

Muddling indeed. They also have the second best attendance in MLB with that losing record. Apparently, overpaid players still put butts in seats, and winning doesn't mean much.

 

Isn't it like the movies? The huge salaries are part of what draws people in. And NO ONE in the audience has ever said: "Well, I would have preferred Brando or DeNiro in that role, but they're too expensive, so let's see what the kid just out of CalArts can do."

 

The entertainment business is not run on the same principles that apply to other businesses. Look at the cash Dan Snyder gets for being a total creep while running his organization into the ground.

[moonslav59]

Mayer

 

He mentioned Mayer. I added Whitlock and Bleis.

 

I do think he has a point. 4 years and only 3 blue chippers is not great. (It's not bad, either.)

 

How many blue chippers did we acquire after Devers, who we signed in 2013 and before Whitlock, Mayer and Bleis?

 

That was about an 8 year void.

[moonslav59]

There are some positive signs now for sure.

 

They were there earlier, too.

 

People just gravitate towards gloom & doom.

[notin]

Muddling indeed. They also have the second best attendance in MLB with that losing record. Apparently, overpaid players still put butts in seats, and winning doesn't mean much.

 

Not in San Diego, anyway.

 

And why should it? Has any team from San Diego ever won any sort of title?

[Larry Cook]

He mentioned Mayer. I added Whitlock and Bleis.

 

I do think he has a point. 4 years and only 3 blue chippers is not great. (It's not bad, either.)

 

How many blue chippers did we acquire after Devers, who we signed in 2013 and before Whitlock, Mayer and Bleis?

 

That was about an 8 year void.

 

So kopeck and moncada count as blue chippers?

[notin]

So kopeck and moncada count as blue chippers?

 

Weren’t they?

 

Both BA Top 20. And if they weren’t blue chippers, the Sox wouldn’t have been able to deal them for Sale…

[moonslav59]

So kopeck and moncada count as blue chippers?

 

Do they?

 

Should they?

 

Even if they do, two in eight years is worse than 3 in Bloom's 4 years.

[moonslav59]

Best Draft Picks Since 2014-2019 (6 years):

 

Beni 2015

Houck 2017

Kopech 2014

Beeks 2014

Crawford 2017

Casas 2018

Dalbec 2016

Duran 2018

Walter 2019

 

IFA

Moncada 2015

Bello 2017

Rafaela 2017

Mata 2016

Perales 2019

Wikelman 2018

Paulino 2018

Chacon 2019

Castillo 2015

Espinoza 2015

 

2020-2022:

Mayer 2021

Yorke 2020

Romero 2022

Drohan 2020

Anthony 2022

Meidroth 2022

Jordan 2020

Hickey 2021

E R-C 2021

Kavadas 2021

Coffey 2022

 

IFA

Bleis 2021

Alcantara 2022

 

Rule 5

Whitlock 2021

 

Trade

Wong, Valdez, Abreu, Hamilton, Koss

 

 

[Hugh2]

Kopech and Moncada were blue chippers, they just never amounted to much.

 

The Tigers wanted Devers and Dave said no. That worth like…50 WAR right there

[Hugh2]

Although Kopech is still only 27 and coming off of a good year. Off to a horrible start this year.

[Hugh2]

Dave was also handcuffed and effectively didn’t have an international class two years in a row.

 

We also didn’t have a first round pick in 2019. Ours dropped 10 spots because the luxury tax limit was exceeded. But it was totally worth it because we had just won the World Series.

[moonslav59]

Kopech and Moncada were blue chippers, they just never amounted to much.

 

I think Espinoza was ranked more highly than Kopech ever was.

[notin]

I think Espinoza was ranked more highly than Kopech ever was.

 

He was not.

 

Espinoza’s best ranking was BA #19 in 2016.

 

Kopech was BA #11 in 2018 and MLB.com #10 that same year…

[Hugh2]

I think Espinoza was ranked more highly than Kopech ever was.

 

No. Espinoza topped out in BA/MLB at 19 and 39. Kopech topped out at 11 and 10.

[Hugh2]

2016 and 2018 respectively

[moonslav59]

Dave was also handcuffed and effectively didn’t have an international class two years in a row.

 

We also didn’t have a first round pick in 2019. Ours dropped 10 spots because the luxury tax limit was exceeded. But it was totally worth it because we had just won the World Series.

 

Good points. The lux tax induced drop was on DD, though. (Also, Beni, Kopech, Beeks & Espi were Ben draftees or IFA signees.)

 

One can also argue the Bloom crop was hampered by COVID- the short 2020 draft and the lost year of player development.

[moonslav59]

He was not.

 

Espinoza’s best ranking was BA #19 in 2016.

 

Kopech was BA #11 in 2018 and MLB.com #10 that same year…

 

I stand corrected. (Actually, I'm sitting down.)

[notin]

I stand corrected. (Actually, I'm sitting down.)

 

Stand up when you say that, sir!!

[Bellhorn04]

So after 22 games we're in last place and 7.5 games out of first, and yet the mood here is relatively upbeat.

 

Is it possible we're being conditioned to have lower expectations?

[Old Red]

So after 22 games we're in last place and 7.5 games out of first, and yet the mood here is relatively upbeat.

 

Is it possible we're being conditioned to have lower expectations?

 

The Celtics, and Bruins are in the playoffs, and with both having the talent to advance far, and the NFL draft is coming up for the Pats, so for me the Red Sox are way on the back burner just kind of simmering along the 500 mark, which I think is an over achievement at this point with some of the gifts they’ve been given like the dropped last out of the game by the O’s.

[Hugh2]

So after 22 games we're in last place and 7.5 games out of first, and yet the mood here is relatively upbeat.

 

Is it possible we're being conditioned to have lower expectations?

 

A little context would help. Before yesterday they would have been 2nd place in every other division in the AL and the NL west. So half of baseball.

 

We are not even a month into the season and we are playing in the toughest division.

 

Tampa is NOT winning 139 games this year. They will come back down to earth. ONE team aside they’ve played all last place teams up until now. We’ve played a lot of first place teams and we are hovering at .500 and the starting pitching is starting to look better. We are 3rd in runs scored with help on the way.

 

The Red Sox may very well have a disappointing season, but damn….talk about throwing in the towel way too early.

 

Going to be a lot of Randy Quiads in here come August.