A Realistic View of 2023: Part II

[notin]

So, no ace- just sign 3 solid 175+ IP SP'ers, add Bello and Pivetta and go with a pretty damn good pen (add Crawford to your listed pen.)

 

Why put Crawford in the bullpen?

 

They do need a starter at some point…

[moonslav59]

Why put Crawford in the bullpen?

 

They do need a starter at some point…

 

Seriously?

 

He's a repeat of Houck and Whitlock.

 

ERA/OPS Against

 

1.66/.471 as RP

5.04/.756 as SP

 

Yes, we need 4 SP'ers- 3, if you are okay with Pivetta and Sale slotted as our #5.

 

Playing pitchers in situations where they do much worse is not my idea of good management.

 

Having 3 solid long men like Houck, Whitlock (assuming he returns to form) and Crawford would make our pen one of the best in MLB. It would also minimize the innings pitched by scrubs like Jacques, and the 10 others.

 

I'm not hopeful we add 3-4 solid SP'ers, this winter, but counting on guys like Houck, Whitlock, Crawford and Sale to go 28+ starts and 160+ IP is just asking to repeat the same jack-ass results, again.

[notin]

Seriously?

 

He's a repeat of Houck and Whitlock.

 

ERA/OPS Against

 

1.66/.471 as RP

5.04/.756 as SP

 

Yes, we need 4 SP'ers- 3, if you are okay with Pivetta and Sale slotted as our #5.

 

Playing pitchers in situations where they do much worse is not my idea of good management.

 

Having 3 solid long men like Houck, Whitlock (assuming he returns to form) and Crawford would make our pen one of the best in MLB. It would also minimize the innings pitched by scrubs like Jacques, and the 10 others.

 

I'm not hopeful we add 3-4 solid SP'ers, this winter, but counting on guys like Houck, Whitlock, Crawford and Sale to go 28+ starts and 160+ IP is just asking to repeat the same jack-ass results, again.

 

EVERY PITCHER is better in bullpen than in the rotation. Ever heard of a pitcher struggling as a reliever getting “banished to the rotation”?

 

Crawford just finished his first full season and is in the “stamina building” phase of the season. With not much rose going on, he absolutely deserves another shot…

[Old Red]

EVERY PITCHER is better in bullpen than in the rotation. Ever heard of a pitcher struggling as a reliever getting “banished to the rotation”?

 

Crawford just finished his first full season and is in the “stamina building” phase of the season. With not much rose going on, he absolutely deserves another shot…

Whit, Houck, Kut Man, Wink, all should be in the pen

[moonslav59]

EVERY PITCHER is better in bullpen than in the rotation. Ever heard of a pitcher struggling as a reliever getting “banished to the rotation”?

 

Crawford just finished his first full season and is in the “stamina building” phase of the season. With not much rose going on, he absolutely deserves another shot…

 

Not every pitcher has SP-RP splits like Crawford, Houck and Whit.

 

Why are you insisting on repeating the same mistakes made?

 

Just add some freaking real SP'ers and leave those good at relieving where they are.

 

It's not rocket science.

[moonslav59]

Whit, Houck, Kut Man, Wink, all should be in the pen

 

100%. I'd rather call up someone from AAA than pitch one of these guys just one time as a SP'er, ever again, unless as an opener.

[Hugh2]

Whit, Houck, Kut Man, Wink, all should be in the pen

 

I think you keep one in the rotation. The one who you think has the best outlook, in terms of durability and ability to cultivate another pitch.

 

4 of those guys in the pen is still a very very good pen.

 

Sox still need two starters this offseason. Starters better than Kluber

[moonslav59]

I think you keep one in the rotation. The one who you think has the best outlook, in terms of durability and ability to cultivate another pitch.

 

4 of those guys in the pen is still a very very good pen.

 

Sox still need two starters this offseason. Starters better than Kluber

 

It's what we will do, but how often do we do the right thing?

 

I's say the chances are higher that 2 or 3 of tese 4 start next year than 1.

 

Whitlock

Houck

Crawford

Winck

 

It's pretty much a given Bello and Pivetta are slotted in the 2024 rotation.

 

My guess is they slot Sale as one with Crawford as his first replacement or just slot them both and get just one SP'er.

[Hugh2]

The sheer longevity of the Sox pitching drought has made it abundantly clear the problem runs deeper than just bad luck, but to some extent, they’ve had bad luck with guys developing too.

 

It’s not guys like Anthony Ranaudo, Allen Webster, Casey Kelly, Ruby La Rosa, Trey Ball, Jay Groome, Henry Owens, and others weren’t highly regarded outside of Boston and still fizzled.

 

Perhaps this is also why when we do get a pitching prospect high up in our system we don’t believe it until we see it. Which isn’t a horrible position to have regardless. While I consider myself an optimist on the prospect homer front I think this dose of skepticism is healthy.

 

Hopefully Bello is a sign of things to come. I have high hopes for Perales, and Wilkeman, in that order. If just one of those guys can turn into a legit #3 option a few years after Bello that would make the recent success of the systems pitching so much better.

 

So good, that adding two strong starters this offseason could make their pitching a force to be reckoned with.

[moonslav59]

The sheer longevity of the Sox pitching drought has made it abundantly clear the problem runs deeper than just bad luck, but to some extent, they’ve had bad luck with guys developing too.

 

It’s not guys like Anthony Ranaudo, Allen Webster, Casey Kelly, Ruby La Rosa, Trey Ball, Jay Groome, Henry Owens, and others weren’t highly regarded outside of Boston and still fizzled.

 

Perhaps this is also why when we do get a pitching prospect high up in our system we don’t believe it until we see it. Which isn’t a horrible position to have regardless. While I consider myself an optimist on the prospect homer front I think this dose of skepticism is healthy.

 

Hopefully Bello is a sign of things to come. I have high hopes for Perales, and Wilkeman, in that order. If just one of those guys can turn into a legit #3 option a few years after Bello that would make the recent success of the systems pitching so much better.

 

So good, that adding two strong starters this offseason could make their pitching a force to be reckoned with.

 

Good post.

 

It's been going on for so long, it's like a given.

 

I, too, hope Bello is a sign of more to come.

 

I do think having Crawford, Wink, Houck and Whitlock as hopefuls is better than the long list of failed Sox prospects since Lester and Buch, but we need better or a continued infusion of guys like Crawford.

[notin]

Not every pitcher has SP-RP splits like Crawford, Houck and Whit.

 

Why are you insisting on repeating the same mistakes made?

 

Just add some freaking real SP'ers and leave those good at relieving where they are.

 

It's not rocket science.

 

 

Crawford improved light years between 2022 and 2023. I’d give him another shot at starting.

 

“Just add some task starting pitcher.” Like Kluber? Good starting pitching in free agency is a bad idea. Did you miss Sale today? Or realize Price’s deal just ended last year? When was the last time Price there a pitch for Boston? Or anyone?

 

Sure, Scherzer turned out to be a good signing 8 years ago. Around that same time Baseball Prospectus wrote an article about how all free agent pitchers are very likely to be busts. Now, eight years later, pitchers are more expensive and contracts are longer. Are pitchers more durable and aging better as well? (Hint:no).

 

The Sox are better off billing up their bullpen and giving Crawford a legitimate shot at the rotation…

[Hugh2]

Crawford improved light years between 2022 and 2023. I’d give him another shot at starting.

 

“Just add some task starting pitcher.” Like Kluber? Good starting pitching in free agency is a bad idea. Did you miss Sale today? Or realize Price’s deal just ended last year? When was the last time Price there a pitch for Boston? Or anyone?

 

Sure, Scherzer turned out to be a good signing 8 years ago. Around that same time Baseball Prospectus wrote an article about how all free agent pitchers are very likely to be busts. Now, eight years later, pitchers are more expensive and contracts are longer. Are pitchers more durable and aging better as well? (Hint:no).

 

The Sox are better off billing up their bullpen and giving Crawford a legitimate shot at the rotation…

 

Scherzer was my binky, I remember back in the day leading the charge advocating his signing.

 

I also predicted a big free agent pitching signing that year. I thought they’d let Lester walk to sign him, I didn’t buy the bull they’d never sign a big name pitcher again.

 

I was right, just off by one year. The next year they signed Price.

[notin]

Seriously?

 

He's a repeat of Houck and Whitlock.

 

ERA/OPS Against

 

1.66/.471 as RP

5.04/.756 as SP

 

Yes, we need 4 SP'ers- 3, if you are okay with Pivetta and Sale slotted as our #5.

 

Playing pitchers in situations where they do much worse is not my idea of good management.

 

Having 3 solid long men like Houck, Whitlock (assuming he returns to form) and Crawford would make our pen one of the best in MLB. It would also minimize the innings pitched by scrubs like Jacques, and the 10 others.

 

I'm not hopeful we add 3-4 solid SP'ers, this winter, but counting on guys like Houck, Whitlock, Crawford and Sale to go 28+ starts and 160+ IP is just asking to repeat the same jack-ass results, again.

 

 

If you look at June, July and August - whenCrawford joined the rotation and pitched his regularly scheduled turns, Crawford made 15 start before running out of gas. In those 15 starts, his ERA was 3.74 (3.92FIP) and OPSA was .691.

 

That absolutely deserves another look…

[moonslav59]

If you look at June, July and August - whenCrawford joined the rotation and pitched his regularly scheduled turns, Crawford made 15 start before running out of gas. In those 15 starts, his ERA was 3.74 (3.92FIP) and OPSA was .691.

 

That absolutely deserves another look…

 

That's exactly what we all said about Whitlock.

 

I'm sure he'll get a look.

 

I'd prefer we add pitchers who have already proven they can go 5+ for 25+ starts, and keep guys who are proven to be good in the pen in the pen.

 

No, "just add SP'ers" does not need to be $10M/1 guys, this coming winter.

 

We really ONLY need SP'ers. We can get by without adding anything else but 2-3 solid SP'er.

[moonslav59]

Scherzer was my binky, I remember back in the day leading the charge advocating his signing.

 

I also predicted a big free agent pitching signing that year. I thought they’d let Lester walk to sign him, I didn’t buy the bull they’d never sign a big name pitcher again.

 

I was right, just off by one year. The next year they signed Price.

 

Imagine we signed Scherzer not Price, which would have also have led to no Pablito & Hram.

[Hugh2]

Imagine we signed Scherzer not Price, which would have also have led to no Pablito & Hram.

 

I would like to formally submit my application to replace Bloom

[notin]

Imagine we signed Scherzer not Price, which would have also have led to no Pablito & Hram.

 

Imagine if the Sox traded Manny and Lester for ARod and Brandon McCarthy.

 

Especially if Manny had any influence on the Ortiz signing.

 

That deal could have stripped away at least three World Series titles…

[Larry Cook]

I think abreau and Rafeala should be starting in the outfield with verdugo!

[moonslav59]

After such an offensive output, today (pun intended,) here are the team OPS leaders:

 

300+ PAs

.852 Casas

.848 Devers

.835 Turner

.828 Duran (332 PAs)

.803 Yoshida

.785 Dugo

.729 Wong (331)

 

Seems like such a waste of a well-balanced and deep offense.

 

Under 300 PAs

1.059 Rafaela

.980 Abreu

.878 Duvall

.748 Reyes

.721 EValdez

.689 McGuire

.677 Urias

.673 Refsnyder

.529 Story

 

[moonslav59]

RBI+ Runs-HRs

154 Turner

143 Devers

122 Yoshida

118 Verdugo

102 Casas

81 Wong (331 PAs)

78 Duran (332 PAs)

74 Duvall (in about half the PAs as those above, except Duran & Wong)

 

XBHs

63 Devers

53 Dugo

51 Turner

47 Yoshida

45 Casas

44 Duran

42 Duvall

35 Wong

 

AB/HR

14.4 Duvall

17.9 Devers

17.9 Casas

21.4 Turner

23.0 EValdez

31.0 Urias

32.3 Yoshida

34.0 Abreu

36.8 Wong

38.0 Dugo

41.5 Duran

 

 

 

Edited September 10, 2023 by moonslav59

[illinoisredsox]

I would like to formally submit my application to replace Bloom

 

What did Bloom have to do with any of that?

[moonslav59]

Sox WHIP Leaders

 

0.99 Martin

1.16 Crawford

 

1.20 Sale

1.23 Pivetta

1.23 Jansen

1.25 Bernardino

1.28 Bello

 

1.31 Paxton

1.34 Houck

1.37 Schreiber

1.40 Whitlock

1.43 Winckowski

 

 

[Randy Red Sox]

EVERY PITCHER is better in bullpen than in the rotation. Ever heard of a pitcher struggling as a reliever getting “banished to the rotation”?

 

Crawford just finished his first full season and is in the “stamina building” phase of the season. With not much rose going on, he absolutely deserves another shot…

 

if it wasn't for Crawford's funky delivery I doubt he is even in Boston.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I did like the Houck-Whitlock bullpen tandem back in 2021 and really wish the Sox would go back to that. Couple those two with Jansen, Martin, Schreiber, Winckowski and Bernardino and you have the potential for one of the best bullpens in MLB, if not the best.

 

Shortening the game to 6 innings is better than signing an ace…

 

Last night was the 46th Red Sox start this year of four innings or fewer, one shy of the 2019 team record. Fans are confident the rotation will shatter that mark by the end of the month.

 

So for next year, shorten it to 6 with a combination with openers and bulk guys, including a few of your core seven bullpeners? I still have no faith in Bloom whatsoever to acquire enough talent to provide enough quality openings.

 

A contrast of two organizations came in the middle innings of the Boston's 23-hit loss, when Baltimore brought in reliever and winning pitcher Shintaro Fujinami -- throwing 100 mph -- and Boston gave the ball to Zach Weiss (who they let wear the Bear Claw beard disguise, so fans wouldn't recognize him when he left Fenway).

 

The O's got Fujinami from Oakland in a July swap for a Triple A reliever -- the Birds actually gave up a "prospect" -- that was a 14th-round draft pick who will turn 27 this month. Bloom swiped Weiss off waivers from the Angels, who've had pitching troubles since they let Nolan Ryan leave in free agency in 1979...

[mvp 78]

Imagine if the Sox traded Manny and Lester for ARod and Brandon McCarthy.

 

Especially if Manny had any influence on the Ortiz signing.

 

That deal could have stripped away at least three World Series titles…

 

ARod was a great defender and put up monster numbers. Maybe they win 4 titles with ARod?

[Bellhorn04]

ARod was a great defender and put up monster numbers. Maybe they win 4 titles with ARod?

 

ARod was a playoff chocker except for that year he was on the undetected roids and making love to Kate Hudson!

[notin]

ARod was a great defender and put up monster numbers. Maybe they win 4 titles with ARod?

 

Just like the Yankees did?

[notin]

Last night was the 46th Red Sox start this year of four innings or fewer, one shy of the 2019 team record. Fans are confident the rotation will shatter that mark by the end of the month.

 

So for next year, shorten it to 6 with a combination with openers and bulk guys, including a few of your core seven bullpeners? I still have no faith in Bloom whatsoever to acquire enough talent to provide enough quality openings.

 

A contrast of two organizations came in the middle innings of the Boston's 23-hit loss, when Baltimore brought in reliever and winning pitcher Shintaro Fujinami -- throwing 100 mph -- and Boston gave the ball to Zach Weiss (who they let wear the Bear Claw beard disguise, so fans wouldn't recognize him when he left Fenway).

 

The O's got Fujinami from Oakland in a July swap for a Triple A reliever -- the Birds actually gave up a "prospect" -- that was a 14th-round draft pick who will turn 27 this month. Bloom swiped Weiss off waivers from the Angels, who've had pitching troubles since they let Nolan Ryan leave in free agency in 1979...

 

One third of those eye opener games, something we had 0 of in 2019…

[mvp 78]

Just like the Yankees did?

 

Just sayin’. Can’t say how it would have worked out.

[Bellhorn04]

Just sayin’. Can’t say how it would have worked out.

 

Hypothetical histories are moon's domain.