A Realistic View of 2023: Part II

[notin]

Maybe for LA -- Verdugo and Wong have 10.9 combined WAR this season, which beats Mookie's 8.3. That's a WAR profit, for only 12 years of Betts.

 

Man, the Dodgers are stuck with Mookie.

 

The Sox only traded one year of Betts. This year is moot when evaluating that trade.

 

If Mookie had decided to hit the open market and signed a 10 year $400mill contract with her Mets, would you still feel the same about that trade?

[Maxbialystock]

I think we need 3 solid pitchers in the 1.5 to 2.5 slot range of effectiveness, but seriously, look at how bad this year went. If we had just added 2 SP'ers who gave us a 4.10 ERA and 180 IP, we'd probably still be in the playoff hunt, or just very recently eliminated.

 

I'd love to get and ace and two guys like Pivetta, but a little better.

 

Sox weak hitting this year was just as culpable as the pitching. Call it RISP disease or whatever you want, but the Sox rank 9th in MLB in runs scored and they need to be 5th or better to be competitive. Part of it is too many lefty bats in a lineup that plays half their games at Fenway. Another part is other teams' hitters seem to me to have better command of the strike zone. To top things off, Bloom spent big on Yoshida and Story with piss poor results.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Maxbialystock

[Larry Cook]

Sox weak hitting this year was just as culpable as the pitching. Call it RISP disease or whatever you want, but the Sox rank 9th in MLB in runs scored and they need to be 5th or better to be competitive. Part of it is too many lefty bats in a lineup that plays half their games at Fenway. Another part is other teams' hitters seem to me to have better command of the strike zone. To top things off, Bloom spent big on Yoshida and Story with piss poor results.

 

I think you are correct. Our lineup is very left handed. And we have more quality lefties coming up in the farm.

[notin]

Sox weak hitting this year was just as culpable as the pitching. Call it RISP disease or whatever you want, but the Sox rank 9th in MLB in runs scored and they need to be 5th or better to be competitive. Part of it is too many lefty bats in a lineup that plays half their games at Fenway. Another part is other teams' hitters seem to me to have better command of the strike zone. To top things off, Bloom spent big on Yoshida and Story with piss poor results.

 

Huh?

 

While no one would object to improving the offense (unless it drastically weakens the defense), it’s actually not the problem with this team. Not even close.

 

And the logic is wrong. Miami is 25th in MLB in runs scored and is very, very likely heading into the postseason…

[Bellhorn04]

Sox weak hitting this year was just as culpable as the pitching. Call it RISP disease or whatever you want, but the Sox rank 9th in MLB in runs scored and they need to be 5th or better to be competitive. Part of it is too many lefty bats in a lineup that plays half their games at Fenway. Another part is other teams' hitters seem to me to have better command of the strike zone. To top things off, Bloom spent big on Yoshida and Story with piss poor results.

 

The Red Sox have an OPS+ of 102, which is tied for 12th in MLB. I like OPS+ because it adjusts for the ballpark factor.

 

So we're not far from middle of the pack and mediocrity.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The Sox only traded one year of Betts. This year is moot when evaluating that trade.

 

If Mookie had decided to hit the open market and signed a 10 year $400mill contract with her Mets, would you still feel the same about that trade?

 

But Mookie told us this summer when he returned to Fenway that he assumed he'd be signing with the Sox and play his entire career here! He said he and his fiance were even house-hunting in the Boston suburbs before the trade...

[Old Red]

Huh?

 

While no one would object to improving the offense (unless it drastically weakens the defense), it’s actually not the problem with this team. Not even close.

 

And the logic is wrong. Miami is 25th in MLB in runs scored and is very, very likely heading into the postseason…

 

Drastically weakens the defense?🙈. Nah the slumber in the lumber hasn’t been there at all this year.🤭.

[Bellhorn04]

But Mookie told us this summer when he returned to Fenway that he assumed he'd be signing with the Sox and play his entire career here! He said he and his fiance were even house-hunting in the Boston suburbs before the trade...

 

Lowball Johnny had other ideas.

[moonslav59]

Sox weak hitting this year was just as culpable as the pitching. Call it RISP disease or whatever you want, but the Sox rank 9th in MLB in runs scored and they need to be 5th or better to be competitive. Part of it is too many lefty bats in a lineup that plays half their games at Fenway. Another part is other teams' hitters seem to me to have better command of the strike zone. To top things off, Bloom spent big on Yoshida and Story with piss poor results.

 

The weird things is, the eye test does not match the numbers on this...

 

Overall 2023 Sox Batting

.259 BA

.751 OPS

 

RISP:

.265 BA

.772 OPS

 

These numbers were much better, until about a month ago, too.

[illinoisredsox]

But Mookie told us this summer when he returned to Fenway that he assumed he'd be signing with the Sox and play his entire career here! He said he and his fiance were even house-hunting in the Boston suburbs before the trade...

 

And you believe him? Now? Why did he not say it last year? Or the year before that? Or in 2021? Or in 2020?

 

Neither side is clean on this.

[moonslav59]

And you believe him? Now? Why did he not say it last year? Or the year before that? Or in 2021? Or in 2020?

 

Neither side is clean on this.

 

I also wonder why the Sox have not come forward with specific answers on some of these points. It makes me think the answers are not what fans want to know, of they just don't want to fan the fire and keep this conversation going on and on.

 

They could easily say, on ____ day, we offered $___ for ___ years and were told _____." Maybe they don't want to start a precedent or put Mookie on the spot, which is understandable, but some recent Mookie statements have put them on the spot.

[notin]

But Mookie told us this summer when he returned to Fenway that he assumed he'd be signing with the Sox and play his entire career here! He said he and his fiance were even house-hunting in the Boston suburbs before the trade...

 

Mookie is great at a lot of things. Hitting. Fielding. Baserunning. Probably a great teammate, too.

 

But this last trip to Fenway taught us he isn’t all that good at keeping his stories straight…

[moonslav59]

Mookie is great at a lot of things. Hitting. Fielding. Baserunning. Probably a great teammate, too.

 

But this last trip to Fenway taught us he isn’t all that good at keeping his stories straight…

 

You do wonder why the more the story changes, the more it makes him look more and more like the loyal player and the team like the culprit.

[jad]

Mookie is great at a lot of things. Hitting. Fielding. Baserunning. Probably a great teammate, too.

 

But this last trip to Fenway taught us he isn’t all that good at keeping his stories straight…

 

And?

[jad]

You do wonder why the more the story changes, the more it makes him look more and more like the loyal player and the team like the culprit.

 

Totally agree. Does anyone really doubt this?

[Randy Red Sox]

All I know is that this is a huge weekend for the Sox. They and 2-3 other sad sack teams are with-in a win or 2 of each other. If the Sox can just keep mailing it in for this weekend they could move up at least 2 spots in the draft.

[moonslav59]

This is the 20th season from 2004-2023. Man, how time flies!

4 Rings!

 

Here is a look at the best single seasons by our starting pitchers by fWAR:

7.6 Sale 2017

6.5 Schill '04

6.2 Sale '18

5.7 Nate '21

5.7 Beckett '07

5.4 Lester '09

5.1 Porcello '16

4.9 Pedro '04

4.9 Lester '10

4.6 Schill '06

4.4 Price '16

4.3 Beckett '08

4.3 Lester '08

3.9 Beckett '09

3.9 ERod '21

3.8 Lester '14

3.8 Beckett '11

3.7 ERod '19

3.6 Sale '19

3.3 Leckey '10, Buch '15, Arroyo '04, Lester '13

3.0 Buch '10, Wells '05, Pom '17

 

Best tandems:

11.4 Schilling, Pedro '04

10.6 Sale, Pom '17

9.6 Nate, ERod '21

9.6 Lester, Beckett '09

9.5 Porcello, Price '16

8.6 Sale, Porcello '18

8.6 Beckett, Dice-K '07

8.6 Beckett, Lester '08

8.2 Lester, Lackey '10

 

Best three:

14.7 Schilling, Pedro, Arroyo '04 (16.9 w #4 DLowe)

12.4 Porcello, Price, Wright '16

11.9 Nate, ERod, Pivetta '21 (14.1 w #4 Houck)

11.3 Beckett, Lester, Dice-K '08

10.9 Beckett, Dice-K, Schilling '07

 

Best Single Season fWAR by Everyday Players

10.5 Betts '18

9.5 Ellbury '11

8.2 Betts '16

7.9 Pedey '11

6.7 Devers '19

6.4 Beltre '10

6.4 Betts '19

6.4 Pedey '08

6.3 Ortiz '07

6.2 Youk '08

6.2 AGon '11

6.0 Bogey '22

5.9 Bogey '19

5.9 Youk '09

5.8 JD '18

5.6 JBJ '16

5.4 Betts '17

5.3 Ortiz '06, Ortiz '05

4.9 Beni '18, JD Drew '09, Pedey '13

4.8 Devers '22, Betts '15

4.7 Vic '13, Pedey '09

4.6 JBay '06, Ellsbury '13, Bogey '15

4.5 Lowell '07

 

Edited September 30, 2023 by moonslav59

[Bellhorn04]

Mookie is great at a lot of things. Hitting. Fielding. Baserunning. Probably a great teammate, too.

 

But this last trip to Fenway taught us he isn’t all that good at keeping his stories straight…

 

You do wonder why the more the story changes, the more it makes him look more and more like the loyal player and the team like the culprit.

 

How did Mookie change the story, exactly? Maybe we need a new thread for this.

[notin]

How did Mookie change the story, exactly? Maybe we need a new thread for this.

 

Well…

 

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mookie-betts-says-he-doesnt-regret-turning-down-300-million-offer-from-red-sox/

 

Of course now he says it was never offered.

 

If you go back and read some old articles, Mookie simply wanted more money. Now he says that was never the case back then and that he never got an offer he has as alert admitted he turned down…

[Bellhorn04]

Well…

 

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mookie-betts-says-he-doesnt-regret-turning-down-300-million-offer-from-red-sox/

 

Of course now he says it was never offered.

 

If you go back and read some old articles, Mookie simply wanted more money. Now he says that was never the case back then and that he never got an offer he has as alert admitted he turned down…

 

What's interesting, though, is that there's no direct quote from Mookie that the amount he turned down was $300 million. It was all "inferred" from the way the story was written.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

How did Mookie change the story, exactly? Maybe we need a new thread for this.

 

This one didn't change -- the day after the trade, Rice on TV told us that Mookie called him last night, with these words about Boston: "THIS is where I want to be."

 

Jim Rice may not be anyone's favorite NESN analyst, but one thing he's never been accused of is being a liar. Or even an embellisher...

[Bellhorn04]

This one didn't change -- the day after the trade, Rice on TV told us that Mookie called him last night, with these words about Boston: "THIS is where I want to be."

 

Jim Rice may not be anyone's favorite NESN analyst, but one thing he's never been accused of is being a liar. Or even an embellisher...

 

And as I keep saying, there is ample evidence of Lowball Johnny making offers to star players that he must know they're not going to accept, with Lester and Bogaerts.

[mvp 78]

And as I keep saying, there is ample evidence of Lowball Johnny making offers to star players that he must know they're not going to accept, with Lester and Bogaerts.

 

He knows the market and what the players are worth! It’s not his fault other owners are outspending him!!!

[Bellhorn04]

He knows the market and what the players are worth! It’s not his fault other owners are outspending him!!!

 

And where does he go from here, spending-wise? By firing Bloom it's almost like he painted himself into a corner.

[mvp 78]

And where does he go from here, spending-wise? By firing Bloom it's almost like he painted himself into a corner.

 

Oh yeah. This winter fest could be interesting. Probably won’t have a mic put in front of him.

[notin]

What's interesting, though, is that there's no direct quote from Mookie that the amount he turned down was $300 million. It was all "inferred" from the way the story was written.

 

Well, stories plural.

 

I know there is a lot of copycat journalism out there, but that offer was widely reported. At least the money was, not the years.

 

The thing is, Mookie had every right to reject it. He had every right to try to rest free agency (which he reportedly Also wanted to do). And sure that type of attitude can make a player look motivated. solely by finances, but know what else makes a player look financially driven? Accepting a $300mill contract…

[notin]

And where does he go from here, spending-wise? By firing Bloom it's almost like he painted himself into a corner.

 

Going cheaper. Henry wants payroll down under $500K. Reportedly he is in talks with Ebenezer Scrooge to run the front office, as long as the season ends before the holidays and there’s no chance of him being visited by the Ghosts of Free Agents Past.

 

 

(This is my 5Gold impression. Scale of 1 to 10?)

[Bellhorn04]

Well, stories plural.

 

I know there is a lot of copycat journalism out there, but that offer was widely reported. At least the money was, not the years.

 

The thing is, Mookie had every right to reject it. He had every right to try to rest free agency (which he reportedly Also wanted to do). And sure that type of attitude can make a player look motivated. solely by finances, but know what else makes a player look financially driven? Accepting a $300mill contract…

 

The $300 mill, if it was actually offered, was below market at the time by at least $50 mill, I'd say.

 

Heck, not too long after that your guy Soto turned down $440 mill.

[Bellhorn04]

Going cheaper. Henry wants payroll down under $500K. Reportedly he is in talks with Ebenezer Scrooge to run the front office, as long as the season ends before the holidays and there’s no chance of him being visited by the Ghosts of Free Agents Past.

 

 

(This is my 5Gold impression. Scale of 1 to 10?)

 

All efforts at humor are appreciated. But we all have a long way to go to match 5Gloves for obliqueness, punning and general savagery.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

All efforts at humor are appreciated. But we all have a long way to go to match 5Gloves for obliqueness, punning and general savagery.

 

I give notin a 5 on the 5Gs scale... as long as Fenway doesn't turn keep transitioning into Pottersville.

 

But I'm bereft of savagery today. It's a melancholy Saturday, raining for the fourth straight month here, with the Red Sox season about to end.

 

All I have is a mellow tune for Cora to sing to free agents this winter, when he's opening up brief cases of cash Henry gave him for the '24 roster:

 

"Please come to Boston for the Springtime

I'm stayin' here with some friends, and they've got lots of room"