A Realistic View of 2023: Part II

[moonslav59]

One other possibility is the offer was something like this:

 

9 years for $270 mill guaranteed

Plus vesting option or team option for additional year at $30 mill

 

Yes, certainly possible, or $295M guaranteed.

 

[moonslav59]

And yet he rips them all the time..

 

If that's bias, I'd love to see what he'd be like unbiased.

[moonslav59]

Everyone can form their own opinions and imagine scenarios that support those opinions. And that's okay. Personally, I would tend to believe Mookie ahead of something that management may have leaked to Lou Merloni. By the way, do they call it " auto correct " because you always have to auto correct it ?

 

So he leaked an opposing view to his own statements?

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, certainly possible, or $295M guaranteed.

 

 

Now I'm down to irrelevant quibbles, but I'm very confident the offer was not $295 million or $299 million. That would be the epitome of bad pricing strategy, sending a message like "you're almost worth $300 mill, but not quite."

[Bellhorn04]

So he leaked an opposing view to his own statements?

 

I think you mis-read Denny's post.

[moonslav59]

I think you mis-read Denny's post.

 

Yes, I did.

 

I need new glasses.

[notin]

Now I'm down to irrelevant quibbles, but I'm very confident the offer was not $295 million or $299 million. That would be the epitome of bad pricing strategy, sending a message like "you're almost worth $300 mill, but not quite."

 

Maybe it was done to Mookie’s benefit.

 

“Yes we could go to $300mil, but that puts you in a very unfavorable tax bracket.”

[moonslav59]

Maybe it was done to Mookie’s benefit.

 

“Yes we could go to $300mil, but that puts you in a very unfavorable tax bracket.”

 

I'm sure he loves the tax brackets in CA.

[Old Red]

FINAL COUNTDOWN!

78-84 record

4 games behind the hapless Yankees

11 games behind Toronto

21 games behind Tampa

23 games behind the O’s

9-19 in Sept

39-42 at Fenway, and broomed time, and time again.

 

No matter how you slice, and dice it this is embarrassing, and unacceptable. Bloom was fired, and rightfully so, but there is plenty of blame to go around starting with JH, and working its way down to Cora, and yes Cora who is told he’s coming back with most likely more control right down to the players. I heard criticism of the leadership in the clubhouse from some on here last year, but I haven’t heard it this year. I wonder how come? Who is the leader? It’s certainly not the $300M man who was sulking, and hanging his head more than once this year. Thank god it’s been football season for a month now, which to me is the best time of the year. The baseball postseason will start, and once again the Red Sox are on the outside looking in, and not even close to getting there. To me this team quit in the last month when they were still in contention for the postseason. I know some on here don’t want to hear that, but I believe they did.

Edited October 2, 2023 by Old Red

[mvp 78]

FINAL COUNTDOWN!

78-84 record

4 games behind the hapless Yankees

11 games behind Toronto

21 games behind Tampa

23 games behind the O’s

9-19 in Sept

39-42 at Fenway, and broomed time, and time again.

 

No matter how you slice, and dice it this is embarrassing, and unacceptable. Bloom was fired, and rightfully so, but there is plenty of blame to go around starting with JH, and working its way down to Cora, and yes Cora who is told he’s coming back with most likely more control right down to the players. I heard criticism of the leadership in the clubhouse from some on here last year, but I haven’t heard it this year. I wonder how come? Who is the leader? It’s certainly not the $300M man who was sulking, and hanging his head more than once this year. Thank god it’s been football season for a month now, which to me is the best time of the year. The baseball postseason will start, and once again the Red Sox are on the outside looking in, and not even close to getting there. To me this team quit in the last month when they were still in contention for the postseason. I know some on here don’t want to hear that, but I believe they did.

 

I don't think he was sulking. I think he was embarrassed by his own play.

[Old Red]

I don't think he was sulking. I think he was embarrassed by his own play.

 

Hanging his head in the dugout, and staying at 3B during a mound visit when the rest of the IF was at the mound were not good looks. He should be embarrassed, and he’s definitely not any kind of leader by example.

[mvp 78]

Hanging his head in the dugout, and staying at 3B during a mound visit when the rest of the IF was at the mound were not good looks. He should be embarrassed, and he’s definitely not any kind of leader by example.

 

They are paying him for his production, not to be a leader.

[moonslav59]

I don't think he was sulking. I think he was embarrassed by his own play.

 

Red slams us for trying to psychoanalyze players.

[notin]

Red slams us for trying to psychoanalyze players.

 

Only he is allowed to speak for the players!!

[Dipre]

They are paying him for his production, not to be a leader.

 

If he was OPS'ing in the .700's, no amount of "leadership" would justify the poor production.

[Old Red]

Red slams us for trying to psychoanalyze players.

 

Just reporting what was seen on TV as was done by OB in real time, and TC talked about Raffy with his head in his hands in the dugout after the game not to mention on many talk shows, and publications. Call it being embarrassed, or sulking or whatever you want, but it was there for everyone to see.

[dgalehouse]

Just reporting what was seen on TV as was done by OB in real time, and TC talked about Raffy with his head in his hands in the dugout after the game not to mention on many talk shows, and publications. Call it being embarrassed, or sulking or whatever you want, but it was there for everyone to see.

 

The back fence gossip is in full swing. You are getting double and sometimes triple teamed.

[moonslav59]

Just reporting what was seen on TV as was done by OB in real time, and TC talked about Raffy with his head in his hands in the dugout after the game not to mention on many talk shows, and publications. Call it being embarrassed, or sulking or whatever you want, but it was there for everyone to see.

 

No, you called it that.

 

The fact that others said it does not mean you aren't making the very assumptions you bash others for doing.

 

Nobody knows what Devers was thinking.

 

I remember the media bashing Lackey for his body language and cussing at what appeared to be his fellow players after they missed making a defensive play. Later, the players came to his defense, saying he was pissed and cursing at himself, and it only looked like he was pissed at his teammates. Much of the media blasted Lackey for that. I suppose you agreed with them, too.

[Maxbialystock]

Hanging his head in the dugout, and staying at 3B during a mound visit when the rest of the IF was at the mound were not good looks. He should be embarrassed, and he’s definitely not any kind of leader by example.

 

Lead by example, you say? Let's see, now. Rafael Devers this year led the Sox in games played, runs scored, rbi's, dingers, and total bases. He was second in OPS, walks, and doubles.

 

Do you ever read what you write, or do you simply have a problem with the English language?

[Maxbialystock]

Hanging his head in the dugout, and staying at 3B during a mound visit when the rest of the IF was at the mound were not good looks. He should be embarrassed, and he’s definitely not any kind of leader by example.

 

Lead by example, you say? Let's see, now. Rafael Devers this year led the Sox in Wins Above Replacement, games played, runs scored, rbi's, dingers, and total bases. He was second in OPS, walks, and doubles.

 

Do you ever read what you write, or do you simply have a problem with the English language?

[Old Red]

Lead by example, you say? Let's see, now. Rafael Devers this year led the Sox in Wins Above Replacement, games played, runs scored, rbi's, dingers, and total bases. He was second in OPS, walks, and doubles.

 

Do you ever read what you write, or do you simply have a problem with the English language?

 

I wasn’t talking about leading with bat, and I was well aware what I wrote.

[notin]

I wasn’t talking about leading with bat, and I was well aware what I wrote.

 

What does him sulking and hanging his head have to do with his hitting?

[Old Red]

What does him sulking and hanging his head have to do with his hitting?

 

I wasn’t talking about his hitting.

[notin]

I wasn’t talking about his hitting.

 

So “leading with his bat” means what exactly?

[Old Red]

No, you called it that.

 

The fact that others said it does not mean you aren't making the very assumptions you bash others for doing.

 

Nobody knows what Devers was thinking.

 

I remember the media bashing Lackey for his body language and cussing at what appeared to be his fellow players after they missed making a defensive play. Later, the players came to his defense, saying he was pissed and cursing at himself, and it only looked like he was pissed at his teammates. Much of the media blasted Lackey for that. I suppose you agreed with them, too.

 

Yes I called it that, and MVP said he was embarrassed. OB commented on it, and TC also commented on it. Anyone can call it what they want. Amazing that last year you criticized the leadership, or lack of in the clubhouse after the team collapsed after the trade deadline, but didn’t do it this year, which to me was a bigger collapse than last year. How come?

[Old Red]

The back fence gossip is in full swing. You are getting double and sometimes triple teamed.

 

It’s easier for them to do that than to focus on a losing team. Seeing things quarter full is a lot easier than admitting things are mostly empty.

[Old Red]

What does him sulking and hanging his head have to do with his hitting?

 

By the way Cora did specify at the year end press conference that Raffy would be the 3B next year. Gee I hope his D gets better.

[Maxbialystock]

Now I'm down to irrelevant quibbles, but I'm very confident the offer was not $295 million or $299 million. That would be the epitome of bad pricing strategy, sending a message like "you're almost worth $300 mill, but not quite."

 

He got $365M, and I'm reasonably sure the Dodgers were prepared to go higher if JH decided to compete. Any discussion of $300M is just silly, and I say that while being fairly sure that, all things being equal, Mookie wanted to stay in Boston. But things weren't equal, not by a long shot.

[Maxbialystock]

By the way Cora did specify at the year end press conference that Raffy would be the 3B next year. Gee I hope his D gets better.

 

I think his D is adequate. He led the team in assists this year by a huge margin--also in innings played in the field (on defense).

 

So, even though Devers was the Sox best hitter this year, I want his OPS, dingers, rbi's, and total bases all to improve next year.

 

He also played more games than any other Sox player this year--153--so I will be fine if he can equal that next year.

[moonslav59]

Yes I called it that, and MVP said he was embarrassed. OB commented on it, and TC also commented on it. Anyone can call it what they want. Amazing that last year you criticized the leadership, or lack of in the clubhouse after the team collapsed after the trade deadline, but didn’t do it this year, which to me was a bigger collapse than last year. How come?

 

I did bring it up, but maybe it was when you were off in hiding.

 

The main reason I mentioned the "leadership" last year was because so many posters were going on and on about what great leaders Bogey, JD and Nate were, and maybe they are, but what good did it do? How do you see leadership working? (Only when you win?)

 

I didn't see many posters raving about great leadership, this year, even when we were winning, except for maybe Turner.