Xander Bogaerts has signed with San Diego Padres

[mvp 78]

I agree, but I think there is a better chance that he is the 2B than being DFA.

 

Fine. My original statement was "Arroyo doesn't have much trade value. If anything, he's DFA'able." He can still be the Red Sox starting 2B and have no trade value. I see him as being DFA'able. He has a career 0.8 fWAR since 2017. If the Sox trade for or sign a SS/2B, Arroyo becomes the clear backup. At that point, it takes one young guy to make a jump (Valdez/Hamilton/Lugo) and Arroyo is gone. Per BTV, Arroyo has less trade value than Nick Decker and Tyler Dearden and those guys are low minors bench guys at this point.

[Old Red]

Fine. My original statement was "Arroyo doesn't have much trade value. If anything, he's DFA'able." He can still be the Red Sox starting 2B and have no trade value. I see him as being DFA'able. He has a career 0.8 fWAR since 2017. If the Sox trade for or sign a SS/2B, Arroyo becomes the clear backup. At that point, it takes one young guy to make a jump (Valdez/Hamilton/Lugo) and Arroyo is gone. Per BTV, Arroyo has less trade value than Nick Decker and Tyler Dearden and those guys are low minors bench guys at this point.

He’s cheap, and I don’t see any jumps being made of the ones you mentioned by the start of the season. Agree on not much trade value. Remember Arroyo was the platoon RF to start last year, so I wouldn’t put nothing past Bloom, and Cora.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Old Red

[moonslav59]

IMO, even if we add a SS or 2Bman, Arroyo will be on the opening day 26 man roster and deserves to be there, at least until his next IL stint. He can maybe hit .750 to .780 and is not bad on D at 2B.

 

EVladez and Hamilton are not ML ready, now. Maybe in a few months but not now.

[Hugh2]

Fine. My original statement was "Arroyo doesn't have much trade value. If anything, he's DFA'able." He can still be the Red Sox starting 2B and have no trade value. I see him as being DFA'able. He has a career 0.8 fWAR since 2017. If the Sox trade for or sign a SS/2B, Arroyo becomes the clear backup. At that point, it takes one young guy to make a jump (Valdez/Hamilton/Lugo) and Arroyo is gone. Per BTV, Arroyo has less trade value than Nick Decker and Tyler Dearden and those guys are low minors bench guys at this point.

 

Well how much WAR do you expect from a bench guy? also, he only has 251 plate appearances outside of Boston. Technically as a 22 year old rookie brought up fast he had a -.7 Fwar, in Boston for 3 years (one of them being a shorten seasoned) he's put up 1.2 WAR and projects for 1.3 FWar next year.

 

That's fine for a bench bat. Not highly valuable, but definitely not DFA'able either.

[notin]

Well how much WAR do you expect from a bench guy? also, he only has 251 plate appearances outside of Boston. Technically as a 22 year old rookie brought up fast he had a -.7 Fwar, in Boston for 3 years (one of them being a shorten seasoned) he's put up 1.2 WAR and projects for 1.3 FWar next year.

 

That's fine for a bench bat. Not highly valuable, but definitely not DFA'able either.

 

 

I think his overall point was Arroyo isn’t worth much in a trade. And he isn’t. But we all know where he’ll be come April…

[StephenCurry30]

Lol now story is out 6 months. Someone please tell me again why we signed the shittier player instead of paying Xander?

[moonslav59]

Lol now story is out 6 months. Someone please tell me again why we signed the shittier player instead of paying Xander?

 

Yes, they must have known Story would get hurt and should have paid Bogey twice the contract total.

[Old Red]

Yes, they must have known Story would get hurt and should have paid Bogey twice the contract total.

 

No more like half than twice the contract total if Bloom hadn’t botched things up last offseason.

[redsoxrules]

Yes, they must have known Story would get hurt and should have paid Bogey twice the contract total.

 

Bogey would have signed for probably 180 to 200 Million before they got story wich is not a lot more than story. Contracts weren't as crazy last off season

[moonslav59]

Bogey would have signed for probably 180 to 200 Million before they got story wich is not a lot more than story. Contracts weren't as crazy last off season

 

Probably, maybe, likely, yes. I'm 100% sure we could have gotten Bogey for less than he signed for. We don't have the set number, though. I'm on board with thinking $180-200M is probably close to what he would have taken.

 

I have never said this is wrong, only that we don't know the least he would have accepted, and we do know Bloom never offered a deal he'd have accepted. That's about it. Somehow that is viewed as a conspiracy theory by one poster.

Edited January 10, 2023 by moonslav59

[Old Red]

Probably, maybe, likely, yes. I'm 100% sure we could have gotten Bogey for less than he signed for. We don't have the set number, though.

 

I have never said this is wrong, only that we don't know the least he would have accepted, and we do know Bloom never offered a deal he'd have accepted. That's about it. Somehow that is viewed as a conspiracy theory by one poster.

 

We do know Bloom offered a 1 yr ext of $30M, which was ridiculous. Bloom Bungled, and botched the whole thing.

[notin]

Bogey would have signed for probably 180 to 200 Million before they got story wich is not a lot more than story. Contracts weren't as crazy last off season

 

I don’t think they wanted Bogaerts at SS for the next 6 years and Story’s injury doesn’t change that…

[Old Red]

I don’t think they wanted Bogaerts at SS for the next 6 years and Story’s injury doesn’t change that…

 

NOBODY ever said he had to stay at SS for 6 more years.

[moonslav59]

We do know Bloom offered a 1 yr ext of $30M, which was ridiculous. Bloom Bungled, and botched the whole thing.

 

Yes, and Story's physical, too!

[notin]

NOBODY ever said he had to stay at SS for 6 more years.

 

Did you talk to Bogaerts about this? He’s resisted position changes in the past and we know the Sox approached Devers with long term deal that involved moving.

 

I know you like to think you sat in on the negotiation but I just don’t think you were invited…

[Old Red]

Yes, and Story's physical, too!

 

Do you know if he didn’t? Doesn’t look good now does it.

[Old Red]

Did you talk to Bogaerts about this? He’s resisted position changes in the past and we know the Sox approached Devers with long term deal that involved moving.

 

I know you like to think you sat in on the negotiation but I just don’t think you were invited…

 

He resisted a position change, because he was going for a new contract, which to most people was understandable. I know you wasn’t in on any negotiations either just like the Turner signing when you questioned if he would be a bench player. Good one.

[moonslav59]

I'm not an expert on MLB negotiations, and my guess is they may vary from agent to agent and GM to GM, but is it possible that BorA$$ did not respond to the lowball $30M offer, because it was absurd, and maybe Bloom said something like, "Is $180M to $200M/6 in the ball park to start discussions?" and BorA$$ said "no."

 

I guess we'd probably have heard about it, ig this happened, but do we know it didn't happen?

 

Would it change people's opinions even a little bit, if we knew we floated $200M and that number was shot down, laughed at or ignored like the $30M/1 extension was?

 

Just a hypothetical, and maybe someday we will know more details. I'm not trying to defend not extending Bogey earlier. I wish we did way back when- same with betts and Devers, but I do think we need to know all the facts before passing final judgement.

 

Yes, the $30M/1 was a slap in the face and deserves severe criticism, but beyond that, what really happened and did not happen?

 

My "conspiracy theory" is Bloom never offered what BorA$$ and Bogey would accept.

 

I'm still waiting for evidence to refute this wild & crazy theory.

[moonslav59]

Do you know if he didn’t? Doesn’t look good now does it.

 

You don't even realize how you expose yourself on things like this. That's the part that cracks me up.

[Old Red]

I'm not an expert on MLB negotiations, and my guess is they may vary from agent to agent and GM to GM, but is it possible that BorA$$ did not respond to the lowball $30M offer, because it was absurd, and maybe Bloom said something like, "Is $180M to $200M/6 in the ball park to start discussions?" and BorA$$ said "no."

 

I guess we'd probably have heard about it, ig this happened, but do we know it didn't happen?

 

Would it change people's opinions even a little bit, if we knew we floated $200M and that number was shot down, laughed at or ignored like the $30M/1 extension was?

 

Just a hypothetical, and maybe someday we will know more details. I'm not trying to defend not extending Bogey earlier. I wish we did way back when- same with betts and Devers, but I do think we need to know all the facts before passing final judgement.

 

Yes, the $30M/1 was a slap in the face and deserves severe criticism, but beyond that, what really happened and did not happen?

 

My "conspiracy theory" is Bloom never offered what BorA$$ and Bogey would accept.

 

I'm still waiting for evidence to refute this wild & crazy theory.

 

You got your brown nose so far up Bloom’s butt I don’t think you ever wipe it off.

[Old Red]

You don't even realize how you expose yourself on things like this. That's the part that cracks me up.

 

You are cracked up if you don’t think anything medical was missed.

[moonslav59]

You got your brown nose so far up Bloom’s butt I don’t think you ever wipe it off.

 

Going playground is what you do best. Kudos. You do it well.

 

[notin]

He resisted a position change, because he was going for a new contract, which to most people was understandable. I know you wasn’t in on any negotiations either just like the Turner signing when you questioned if he would be a bench player. Good one.

 

Again you speak for people who are not you. Bogaerts openly discussed not wanting to change positions back in 2013 after reluctantly filling in for Will Middlebrooks at 3b. Was that contract-related, too?

[moonslav59]

You are cracked up if you don’t think anything medical was missed.

 

Your idiocy is so blatant.

 

I never came close to even hinting at the implication that there might be a sliver of a tiny chance the "medical was missed."

 

My point was about blaming Bloom for a medical report. Was the examining doctor? Do you have evidence it was in the report and Bloom ignored it? You sure act that way, and that cracks me up, bigtime. I'm literally laughing out loud, right now.

 

How you jump to so many wrong conclusions from clear and simple statements by posters is wonder to us all... like notin's comment about Turner on the bench. You never get context. it's your Kryptonite.

 

[moonslav59]

Again you speak for people who are not you. Bogaerts openly discussed not wanting to change positions back in 2013 after reluctantly filling in for Will Middlebrooks at 3b. Was that contract-related, too?

 

Facts won't work.

[Hugh2]

You are cracked up if you don’t think anything medical was missed.

 

There’s always SOMETHING on a medical. Talk to someone who does imaging for a living, there’s no such thing as a perfect specimen. You have no ideal how an abnormality will progress of if inflammation will be successfully resolved without surgery OR get worse.

 

Also, just because someone gets injured now, doesn’t mean something would have showed up on his medicals in the past. Things can appear, or progress over time.

[Old Red]

Again you speak for people who are not you. Bogaerts openly discussed not wanting to change positions back in 2013 after reluctantly filling in for Will Middlebrooks at 3b. Was that contract-related, too?

 

You are bringing up something 10 years ago with a young Bogey who had never played 3B before, and had to learn in season. That’s the best you got? Wow!

[a700hitter]

There’s always SOMETHING on a medical. Talk to someone who does imaging for a living, there’s no such thing as a perfect specimen. You have no ideal how an abnormality will progress of if inflammation will be successfully resolved without surgery OR get worse.

 

Also, just because someone gets injured now, doesn’t mean something would have showed up on his medicals in the past. Things can appear, or progress over time.

Two teams passed on doling out hundreds of millions of dollars to Correa based on medical. Our medical staff signs off on two guys with bad elbows for more than $300 million— Sale and Story. Incompetence.

[Old Red]

Your idiocy is so blatant.

 

I never came close to even hinting at the implication that there might be a sliver of a tiny chance the "medical was missed."

 

My point was about blaming Bloom for a medical report. Was the examining doctor? Do you have evidence it was in the report and Bloom ignored it? You sure act that way, and that cracks me up, bigtime. I'm literally laughing out loud, right now.

 

How you jump to so many wrong conclusions from clear and simple statements by posters is wonder to us all... like notin's comment about Turner on the bench. You never get context. it's your Kryptonite.

 

Because it’s on Bloom it’s only a sliver of a chance something was missed. Wow! Everyone new, but you that Storyland had a bad elbow when he was signed, so I think it’s more than a sliver of a chance that something was missed. Bloom failed again, and where it stops no one knows.

[moonslav59]

You are bringing up something 10 years ago with a young Bogey who had never played 3B before, and had to learn in season. That’s the best you got? Wow!

 

You brought up the timing as a factor.