2022 Starting Rotation Thread

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Paxton suffers lat strain. Left after facing 2 batters. Will be evaluated by doctors

 

We need to spend more of our top-6 payroll on rehabbing pitchers that we can't count on to make second-half comebacks to take the place of old reclamation pitchers we sign who break down after the first half.

 

Sly big-market tactics.

[Bellhorn04]

We need to spend more of our top-6 payroll on rehabbing pitchers that we can't count on to make second-half comebacks to take the place of old reclamation pitchers we sign who break down after the first half.

 

Sly big-market tactics.

 

Definitely in your top 5 sarcastic remarks about 2022.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Definitely in your top 5 sarcastic remarks about 2022.

 

Appreciate it. But can't you just see these guys sitting around a conference table in the winter, staring at powerpoints, and arriving at this conclusion: Look, since our intel says that none of these big money pitchers will be definites over time, we're better off splitting up what budget we have available to recruit as many maybes as possible, and -- oww, I think I just blew out my ucl scrolling this url...

[mvp 78]

Appreciate it. But can't you just see these guys sitting around a conference table in the winter, staring at powerpoints, and arriving at this conclusion: Look, since our intel says that none of these big money pitchers will be definites over time, we're better off splitting up what budget we have available to recruit as many maybes as possible, and -- oww, I think I just blew out my ucl scrolling this url...

 

I just hope they learned a lesson from this plan.

[moonslav59]

I just hope they learned a lesson from this plan.

 

It might not be the lesson you wanted them to learn.

 

fWAR Wacha 1.3 + 0.8 Hill= 2.1, which is equal to Bassit and more than....

1.9 Montas & S Gray

1.8 Jon Gray

1.7 Syndergaard

1.6 Morton

1.5 R Ray & K Gibson

1.2 Greinke

1.0 Manaea

0.5 S Matz

0.2 Berrios

0.0 DeSclafani

 

(bWAR: 2.8 Wacha + 0.1 RHill= 2.9, so far.)

[vjcsmoke]

I'm so glad Bloom got us pitching help at the deadline. Oh wait he didn't. Just got shelled 15-10 by the Orioles. It's not quite as bad as the record 28 run shellacking we took earlier in the year, but it's still pretty pathetic!

[Hugh2]

I'm so glad Bloom got us pitching help at the deadline. Oh wait he didn't. Just got shelled 15-10 by the Orioles. It's not quite as bad as the record 28 run shellacking we took earlier in the year, but it's still pretty pathetic!

 

Getting substantial help to this team right now would be like throwing all your money in the pot with a s*** hand. There’s a time to sell, and a time to buy, this season was not the time to buy.

 

Regardless of what anyones opinions may be of John Henry and Bloom. They have a plan, they don’t have a plan, their plan is in motion, their plan is s*** etc etc. it is painstakingly clear that wasting assets to improve this team is a waste of assets.

 

Fold, throw your money down when you actually have a chance of winning.

[moonslav59]

I'm so glad Bloom got us pitching help at the deadline. Oh wait he didn't. Just got shelled 15-10 by the Orioles. It's not quite as bad as the record 28 run shellacking we took earlier in the year, but it's still pretty pathetic!

 

Nate returned July 15.

Schreiber returned July 23.

Hill returned August 3.

Barnes returned August 4.

Wacha returned August 14,

Strahm returned August 19.

 

Chris Sale was scheduled to come back but broke his wrist in mid August.

[moonslav59]

Again, it seems like the biggest 2022 Sox bashers are the ones who seemingly wanted us to go all in on such a "crappy team."

 

So, the their plan was to sacrifice the future to make the 2022 team less crappy and a little more enjoyable to watch.

 

JH was NOT going all in, this year. They can wish he would have and turn that into "Bloom could have convince Henry to spend more," or "Bloom is trying to turn the Sox into the Rays North," but teh reality is, the b udget was too restricted to add enough pieces to be highly competitive.

 

That being said, Bloom was handed a budget, this past winter that had he spent perfectly, we'd have maybe been a playoff team, but I seriously doubt this team was a move or two away from a ring. (Just my opinion, of course.)

Edited August 20, 2022 by moonslav59

[notin]

Again, it seems like the biggest 2022 Sox bashers are the ones who seemingly wanted us to go all in on such a "crappy team."

 

I kind of get that. Watching teams sell is rarely fun.

 

But what they all forget is this team was 43-33 before all the injuries kicked in, and had won 33 of 47 at that time. They were playing very well, despite the questionable performances from the bullpen…

[moonslav59]

I kind of get that. Watching teams sell is rarely fun.

 

But what they all forget is this team was 43-33 before all the injuries kicked in, and had won 33 of 47 at that time. They were playing very well, despite the questionable performances from the bullpen…

 

I get it, too. For those who feel the playoffs are a crapshoot, which I am not a member of that group, maybe we were 2 key additions away from making the playoffs, but it seems obvious to me, we were NOT winning it all. The Bloom bashers think this team is worse than I do, so I fail to see how they can think we were a Renfroe and a couple deadline moves away from a ring.

 

Either we are not as bad as they think or say we are, of they are dreaming. (No disrespect intended.)

[Old Red]

I kind of get that. Watching teams sell is rarely fun.

 

But what they all forget is this team was 43-33 before all the injuries kicked in, and had won 33 of 47 at that time. They were playing very well, despite the questionable performances from the bullpen…

How many of those wins did not come from the bad, bad West, or last place teams? It sounds like you bought into the Fantasy month of June as the exception, and not the rule, and your entitled, but what happened when reality set in, and they started playing the good Div teams again. Reality has set in, and it’s not as much about injuries as you think.

[Old Red]

I get it, too. For those who feel the playoffs are a crapshoot, which I am not a member of that group, maybe we were 2 key additions away from making the playoffs, but it seems obvious to me, we were NOT winning it all. The Bloom bashers think this team is worse than I do, so I fail to see how they can think we were a Renfroe and a couple deadline moves away from a ring.

 

Either we are not as bad as they think or say we are, of they are dreaming. (No disrespect intended.)

Ah dreaming. Another word for the day to go along with shallow, cry babies, whiners, and the many others. Priceless!

[notin]

How many of those wins did not come from the bad, bad West, or last place teams? It sounds like you bought into the Fantasy month of June as the exception, and not the rule, and your entitled, but what happened when reality set in, and they started playing the good Div teams again. Reality has set in, and it’s not as much about injuries as you think.

 

They went 13-3 against Seattle, Cleveland, St. Louis and the White Sox in that stretch. All those teams are comfortably seated for post-season spots.

 

The Sox have also won 4 of their last 5 against the Yankees. Are the Yankees a bad team, too?

[Old Red]

They went 13-3 against Seattle, Cleveland, St. Louis and the White Sox in that stretch. All those teams are comfortably seated for post-season spots.

 

The Sox have also won 4 of their last 5 against the Yankees. Are the Yankees a bad team, too?

The Yankees are as bad of the Red Sox right now, which I am glad to see. Everyone should have known that the real test for the Sox was not the fantasy month of June, but starting with July, and all the Div games.

[vjcsmoke]

I get it, too. For those who feel the playoffs are a crapshoot, which I am not a member of that group, maybe we were 2 key additions away from making the playoffs, but it seems obvious to me, we were NOT winning it all. The Bloom bashers think this team is worse than I do, so I fail to see how they can think we were a Renfroe and a couple deadline moves away from a ring.

 

The Red Sox were 92-70 in 2021, 22 games over .500 and belonged in the postseason.

 

So why are they now 59-61? Answer Bloom DUMPED our talent and made our team worse all for the 'promise' of prospects. The roster in 2022 is subjectively WORSE than 2021 and Bloom is the architect of this disaster. And yet everyone wants to kiss his feet and hold him BLAMELESS for his own mistakes.

 

Trading for Jackie Bradley Junior was a huge FLOP but it's just one of the most obvious warning flags of his INEPTITUDE as a GM.

 

In the 3 years of Bloom's 'stewardship' nothing about his 'genius moves' inspires confidence. He has made the Red Sox progressively WORSE in 3 years in charge.

[Bellhorn04]

In the 3 years of Bloom's 'stewardship' nothing about his 'genius moves' inspires confidence. He has made the Red Sox progressively WORSE in 3 years in charge.

 

"Progressively worse" means the record gets worse each year...

[moonslav59]

The Red Sox were 92-70 in 2021, 22 games over .500 and belonged in the postseason.

 

So why are they now 59-61? Answer Bloom DUMPED our talent and made our team worse all for the 'promise' of prospects. The roster in 2022 is subjectively WORSE than 2021 and Bloom is the architect of this disaster. And yet everyone wants to kiss his feet and hold him BLAMELESS for his own mistakes.

 

Trading for Jackie Bradley Junior was a huge FLOP but it's just one of the most obvious warning flags of his INEPTITUDE as a GM.

 

In the 3 years of Bloom's 'stewardship' nothing about his 'genius moves' inspires confidence. He has made the Red Sox progressively WORSE in 3 years in charge.

 

No one is holding him blameless. The Renfroe trade sucked.

 

BTW, he is the one who signed Renfroe and created the 2021 roster with a tight budget. Was that "inept," too? Are GMs only rated by current standings?

 

We are better now than after 2019. Thinking otherwise is inept thinking.

 

The team is better.

The farm is better.

The amount of deadwood is better.

The budget is better suited for improving.

 

The record sucks. There is no denying it. Some of Blooms moves sucked. Some seemed okay, but they ended up sucking. Too many key players got hurt. Just about all returning vets declined- many by a lot, and many were not Bloom acquired players. That's not excuses. We sucked, Period. But, facts are facts.

[moonslav59]

"Progressively worse" means the record gets worse each year...

 

The drop off from 2018 to 2019 was .097 in winning %, and the team was forced to cut over $40M in salary. The 2020 season reflected that along with Sale and ERod missing the entire season.

 

blaming Bloom for 2020 is laughable. Blaming him for the .076 decline in winning % from 2021 to 2022 is fair, but then what about crediting him for the 2021 near miracle?

 

Also, the decline from 2020, the worst point in recent Sox history, to 2021 is less than from 2018 to 2019. (.054 drop compared to .097)

 

The farm is undeniably much better. The budget looks much better, in terms of dead money and added dead money from the DD era to now.

 

That's not excusing 2022. We suck, and Bloom is partially responsible- even a big part.

[Bellhorn04]

No one is holding him blameless. The Renfroe trade sucked.

 

BTW, he is the one who signed Renfroe and created the 2021 roster with a tight budget. Was that "inept," too? Are GMs only rated by current standings?

 

We are better now than after 2019. Thinking otherwise is inept thinking.

 

The team is better.

The farm is better.

The amount of deadwood is better.

The budget is better suited for improving.

 

The record sucks. There is no denying it. Some of Blooms moves sucked. Some seemed okay, but they ended up sucking. Too many key players got hurt. Just about all returning vets declined- many by a lot, and many were not Bloom acquired players. That's not excuses. We sucked, Period. But, facts are facts.

 

Well summed up.

[moonslav59]

Well summed up.

 

One thing I find interesting. Those who blame Bloom for our downfall in 2022 are just "stating facts." It's not viewed as "making excuses."

 

If some state facts like just about every returning vet doing worse from 2021 to 2022, it's viewed as making an excuse to lessen the heat put on Bloom.

 

Bringing up facts like a massive amount of injuries to our most key players is viewed as making excuses.

 

Isn't saying trading Renfroe just an excuse, too?

 

The fact is, almost the entire team did worse than 2021 or expected. Only Devers, Vaz and maybe Houck did the same or better than 2021.

 

Bloom additions Schreiber, Refsnyder, Wacha and to some extent Hill and Strahm did better or about as expected, yet the Renfroe, Deikman and Barnes extension are all some talk about as the reason why, OR EXCUSE!, we suck this year.

[Old Red]

One thing I find interesting. Those who blame Bloom for our downfall in 2022 are just "stating facts." It's not viewed as "making excuses."

 

If some state facts like just about every returning vet doing worse from 2021 to 2022, it's viewed as making an excuse to lessen the heat put on Bloom.

 

Bringing up facts like a massive amount of injuries to our most key players is viewed as making excuses.

 

Isn't saying trading Renfroe just an excuse, too?

 

The fact is, almost the entire team did worse than 2021 or expected. Only Devers, Vaz and maybe Houck did the same or better than 2021.

 

Bloom additions Schreiber, Refsnyder, Wacha and to some extent Hill and Strahm did better or about as expected, yet the Renfroe, Deikman and Barnes extension are all some talk about as the reason why, OR EXCUSE!, we suck this year.

Try as you might, but no opinions are being changed much to your efforts, and frustrations.

[illinoisredsox]

Try as you might, but no opinions are being changed much to your efforts, and frustrations.

 

So what? Discussion actually involves accepting that others can have opinions and beliefs different from yours and possibly agreeing to disagree; it's something sadly missing in many aspects of life today.

[Old Red]

So what? Discussion actually involves accepting that others can have opinions and beliefs different from yours and possibly agreeing to disagree; it's something sadly missing in many aspects of life today.

 

I agree, but I’m not trying to change anyones opinions, but voice my own, which some don’t like.

[notin]

I agree, but I’m not trying to change anyones opinions, but voice my own, which some don’t like.

 

People have countered your opinions, but no one has told you not to have them.

 

And you’ve countered other people. That’s how the system works…

[Old Red]

People have countered your opinions, but no one has told you not to have them.

 

And you’ve countered other people. That’s how the system works…

 

I’ve said many times to agree to disagree, but with some it doesn’t work to well.

[moonslav59]

So what? Discussion actually involves accepting that others can have opinions and beliefs different from yours and possibly agreeing to disagree; it's something sadly missing in many aspects of life today.

 

The thing is, I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion, and agreeing to disagree is a good thing, many times.

 

I guess repeating the same point over and over, something almost all of us do, is viewed by some as not agreeing to disagree.

Edited August 21, 2022 by moonslav59

[Old Red]

Evol scratched again from start on Tuesday.

[sk7326]

The Red Sox were 92-70 in 2021, 22 games over .500 and belonged in the postseason.

 

So why are they now 59-61? Answer Bloom DUMPED our talent and made our team worse all for the 'promise' of prospects. The roster in 2022 is subjectively WORSE than 2021 and Bloom is the architect of this disaster. And yet everyone wants to kiss his feet and hold him BLAMELESS for his own mistakes.

 

Trading for Jackie Bradley Junior was a huge FLOP but it's just one of the most obvious warning flags of his INEPTITUDE as a GM.

 

In the 3 years of Bloom's 'stewardship' nothing about his 'genius moves' inspires confidence. He has made the Red Sox progressively WORSE in 3 years in charge.

 

Well, there are a few reasons at work.

 

1. The Orioles don't suck.

2. Bloom took a bunch of die rolls last season that worked - and the die rolls this season have not been as successful, particularly in 1B/RF, positions where teams NEED offense

3. They brought in one of the top free agents in the entire class! He just has been bad. Yes, he has been excellent defensively, but "great defensive 2B who is a sub .300 OBP" is absolutely not a victory for what they asked out of Trevor Story

4. Health with Kike and the starters. And that is allowing for the possibility Kike was going to turn into a pumpkin at the plate.

5. The Chris Sale Experience

 

Ironically, his starting die rolls were not that bad. Like, Wacha has been terrific - his injury was a huge loss for this team. Rich Hill was less so, but it's not like the Garrett Richards experience was amazing.

 

The Red Sox defense has been better than last year - but team has struck out fewer batters and (relatively, not absolutely) have given up more homeruns. And so there has been a drop in FIP.

 

Here is the thing. When ownership decided to make the Betts deal a Price salary dump (their prerogative, it makes sense) - the chance to get an All-Star talent from that deal went down the tubes. (though Downs I think will be a solid big league something) The Next Great Star in the system is likely 2 years away at minimum. (Mayer and Bleis are the names to watch, though their sandwich pick this year has some serious tools)

 

The team does have a chance to be pretty good next year - a lot of money they can move around. But the range of outcomes is wide.

[moonslav59]

Well, there are a few reasons at work.

 

1. The Orioles don't suck.

2. Bloom took a bunch of die rolls last season that worked - and the die rolls this season have not been as successful, particularly in 1B/RF, positions where teams NEED offense

3. They brought in one of the top free agents in the entire class! He just has been bad. Yes, he has been excellent defensively, but "great defensive 2B who is a sub .300 OBP" is absolutely not a victory for what they asked out of Trevor Story

4. Health with Kike and the starters. And that is allowing for the possibility Kike was going to turn into a pumpkin at the plate.

5. The Chris Sale Experience

 

Ironically, his starting die rolls were not that bad. Like, Wacha has been terrific - his injury was a huge loss for this team. Rich Hill was less so, but it's not like the Garrett Richards experience was amazing.

 

The Red Sox defense has been better than last year - but team has struck out fewer batters and (relatively, not absolutely) have given up more homeruns. And so there has been a drop in FIP.

 

Here is the thing. When ownership decided to make the Betts deal a Price salary dump (their prerogative, it makes sense) - the chance to get an All-Star talent from that deal went down the tubes. (though Downs I think will be a solid big league something) The Next Great Star in the system is likely 2 years away at minimum. (Mayer and Bleis are the names to watch, though their sandwich pick this year has some serious tools)

 

The team does have a chance to be pretty good next year - a lot of money they can move around. But the range of outcomes is wide.

 

He rolled the dice on the $7M option on Vaz at catcher, after trying to acquire Stalling s from PIT: We won.

 

He rolled the dice with a career OPS .800+ batter (Dalbec), Shaw and our #1 prospect, Casas, at 1B and we lost.

 

He rolled the dice on Story at 2B. We lost for 2022.

 

No dice rolls at CF, LF, SS and 3B with mixed results.

 

He rolled the dice in RF w JBJ, and we lost.

 

He rolled the dice with a guy named Refsnyder at 4th OF, Refsnyder and won.

 

He rolled the dice with Arroyo aay utility IF'er, and due to another injury- mixed results.

 

No dice roll with Eovaldi and Pivetta, but b oth declines.

 

Rolled on Wacha: win.

 

Rolled on Hill: meh at $5M.

 

Rolled the dice on Sale & Paxton: Lost.

 

Rolled the dice on the kids as SP'er depth: mixed results.

 

Rolled on Strahm: win.

 

No roll on Whitlock & Houck: both broke even or declined a bit.

 

Rolled the dice on the pen depth: actually, mixed results, but most likely view it as a loss.

 

Pretty much mixed results.

 

If you compare declines by returning vets vs expected results from additions, I think the returnees (Non dice-rolled) did worse.