Best Red Sox SS of All Time

[Old Red]

I think if the future focused moves worked out, there'd be less need for crying. Unfortunately, a lot of the prospect deals haven't amounted to much.

 

What he doesn’t get is that when he’s calling out other fans, because they wail, weep, and bawl he is doing the same thing. A big nerve has been struck, and a tantrum ensues. Hilarious to watch actually. How can those bad, bad fans not think like him? Pretty easy actually. Do you think fans are out there weeping in their pillow at night, because a fire sale might happen? Oh the other hand I can imagine a poster weeping in his pillow, because the fire sale didn’t happen. Sad, but true.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Old Red

[Old Red]

And if you truly believe Henry, then you have to remember what he said on air that he disagreed with the CC signing, but still agreed to the contract. He gets out of the way of the people that makes the decisions. He has said that he doesn't run the operations.

He used to say as he did back in the day that LL runs the Red Sox, but lots have changed since even the CC signing, and contracts have gone up big time, and the Red Sox have been burned more times then not over some bad signings have they not?

[Old Red]

Henry doesn't do the drafting or implement overall strategy. He sets the budget and may have the final say on larger long term contracts. I don't think he gets involved in the Joelys of the world.

 

Agree, and I don’t believe Henry was in on bringing JBJ back to Boston either.

[moonslav59]

I think if the future focused moves worked out, there'd be less need for crying. Unfortunately, a lot of the prospect deals haven't amounted to much.

 

No, but look at the trades, one by one, hardly any of our best players were traded for just a propsect(s).

 

Betts included the salary dump of half-Price.

 

Beni included Cordero.

 

Renfroe included JBJ.

 

Workman & Hembree: Pivetta

 

Now, that does not mean we should have had no expectations for the many prospects Bloom traded for, and I specifically said the JBJ better have been about the prospects. While Hamilton was just added to the 40, I'm not very optimistic about him or Binelas.

 

I do still like Wong, German and Wallace and have some hope with EValdez, Abreu & Winckowski, but the vast majority of prospects traded for have not risen hopes after we obtained them.

 

Downs

Seabold

R Hern

Hamilton

Binelas

Koss

Potts & Rosario

de la Rosa, Valdez & Gambrell

 

Too recent to know?

Ferguson

Rosier

 

He's done better with Rule 5 and minor league FA signings:

Whitlock

Kelly

Ort

 

[mvp 78]

He used to say as he did back in the day that LL runs the Red Sox, but lots have changed since even the CC signing, and contracts have gone up big time, and the Red Sox have been burned more times then not over some bad signings have they not?

 

They were burned on Sale and maybe Price.

 

However, while the contracts have increased, the revenue from tv contracts have vastly outpaced salary inflation. Additionally, the Red Sox were valued at 400M at the time of purchase, 1B in 2012 and now almost 4B in 2022. If he's worried about overpaying for Raffy or Xander, I'm going to find the proverbial tiny violin and start to play it.

[mvp 78]

No, but look at the trades, one by one, hardly any of our best players were traded for just a propsect(s).

 

Betts included the salary dump of half-Price.

 

Beni included Cordero.

 

Renfroe included JBJ.

 

Workman & Hembree: Pivetta

 

Now, that does not mean we should have had no expectations for the many prospects Bloom traded for, and I specifically said the JBJ better have been about the prospects. While Hamilton was just added to the 40, I'm not very optimistic about him or Binelas.

 

I do still like Wong, German and Wallace and have some hope with EValdez, Abreu & Winckowski, but the vast majority of prospects traded for have not risen hopes after we obtained them.

 

Downs

Seabold

R Hern

Hamilton

Binelas

Koss

Potts & Rosario

de la Rosa, Valdez & Gambrell

 

Too recent to know?

Ferguson

Rosier

 

He's done better with Rule 5 and minor league FA signings:

Whitlock

Kelly

Ort

 

 

I don't care about the salary dump. They could have reset in other ways. I'd want extra prospects.

 

Wow, Cordero!

 

JBJ was the MIL salary dump! Was that a benefit to BOS?

 

The prospects and players that have come back just haven't performed well enough. The Beni trade didn't work out at the end of the day. Verdugo is ok, but I'd still want more for the best player in the game.

 

The Pivetta trade is the only trade that is a no doubt win for Bloom and that's not a great look.

[Old Red]

They were burned on Sale and maybe Price.

 

However, while the contracts have increased, the revenue from tv contracts have vastly outpaced salary inflation. Additionally, the Red Sox were valued at 400M at the time of purchase, 1B in 2012 and now almost 4B in 2022. If he's worried about overpaying for Raffy or Xander, I'm going to find the proverbial tiny violin and start to play it.

 

I don’t believe anyone will play the proverbial violin for JH, and especially if Bogey, and or Raffy aren’t resigned it will be the opposite.

[moonslav59]

What he doesn’t get is that when he’s calling out other fans, because they wail, weep, and bawl he is doing the same thing. A big nerve has been struck, and a tantrum ensues. Hilarious to watch actually. How can those bad, bad fans not think like him? Pretty easy actually. Do you think fans are out there weeping in their pillow at night, because a fire sale might happen? Oh the other hand I can imagine a poster weeping in his pillow, because the fire sale didn’t happen. Sad, but true.

 

I'm saying maybe (I never said for sure) some moves were not made out of fear of upsetting fans that might show their anger by not renewing or buying season tickets or NESN subscriptions. I call those fans crybabies.

 

Disagree with the terminology- fine, but it has nothing to do with them disagreeing with me.

 

What gets me is that they will now cry because we did not trade players away, when we should have, and it made us worse over the longer term.

 

Even you agreed we should have traded Bogey a year or two back, if we were going to lose him, so you agree we'd be better off, now, had we done that. Why did we not trade him?

 

Answers might include certain weight to some or all of these reasons:

 

1. We thought we might be able to keep him at a discount or reasonable rate.

2. We thought we might win in 2021 and/or 2022, and he gave us a better chance

3. We did not want to upset a fan base still angry over losing Betts, and some over the Lester loss, long ago.

 

I'm not saying #3 was the major reason, bt I think angry fans played a part in the decisions made.

[moonslav59]

I don't care about the salary dump. They could have reset in other ways. I'd want extra prospects.

 

Wow, Cordero!

 

JBJ was the MIL salary dump! Was that a benefit to BOS?

 

The prospects and players that have come back just haven't performed well enough. The Beni trade didn't work out at the end of the day. Verdugo is ok, but I'd still want more for the best player in the game.

 

The Pivetta trade is the only trade that is a no doubt win for Bloom and that's not a great look.

 

I;m not defending Cordero and some of the others as being prized gets. I'm just pointing out, the prospects may not have been the major part of some of the trades, or that the ML player acquired lessened the value of the prospects we got.

 

JBJ was meant to fill the RF need we had by trading Renfroe. I sure as hell am not noe never did defend that part of the trade. I do agree: we don't get Hamilton and Binelas for Renfroe. The JBJ aspect improved the value of the prospects returned- most likely. (Good point.)

[moonslav59]

I don’t believe anyone will play the proverbial violin for JH, and especially if Bogey, and or Raffy aren’t resigned it will be the opposite.

 

Deservedly so.

[Old Red]

I don't care about the salary dump. They could have reset in other ways. I'd want extra prospects.

 

Wow, Cordero!

 

JBJ was the MIL salary dump! Was that a benefit to BOS?

 

The prospects and players that have come back just haven't performed well enough. The Beni trade didn't work out at the end of the day. Verdugo is ok, but I'd still want more for the best player in the game.

 

The Pivetta trade is the only trade that is a no doubt win for Bloom and that's not a great look.

Now that was well written, and will definitely put you in the top spot for poster of the year. Of course I’m sure there will be a big rebuttal coming your way, but big will not be good.

[mvp 78]

Now that was well written, and will definitely put you in the top spot for poster of the year. Of course I’m sure there will be a big rebuttal coming your way, but big will not be good.

 

All of my posts are well written and I'm no longer in contention for poster of the year because it wouldn't be fair to everyone else as I'm just too damn good.

[Bellhorn04]

They are crybabies not because they don't think like me.

 

They are crybabies because they wail, weep and bawl every time a move is made that is focused on the future and not instant gratification.

 

But you seem to be saying that if they had a fire sale in July and traded Bogey, JD, Eovaldi etc., anyone who didn't like the fact they were throwing in the towel on 2022 when they were 3 games out of a Wild Card would be a crybaby.

[moonslav59]

But you seem to be saying that if they had a fire sale in July and traded Bogey, JD, Eovaldi etc., anyone who didn't like the fact they were throwing in the towel on 2022 when they were 3 games out of a Wild Card would be a crybaby.

 

They'd have cried, for sure, whether the reason is justified or not is another issue.

 

My main point was about trading Bogey last winter or the one before and Devers, now.

 

There is very little reason to think fans would not be bawling their eyes out over a Bogey or Devers trade.

 

Some are still crying about Lester.

[moonslav59]

All of my posts are well written and I'm no longer in contention for poster of the year because it wouldn't be fair to everyone else as I'm just too damn good.

 

Had you written this in the 3rd person, it would have been more fitting.

 

We all know you will vote for yourself, in this imaginary poll, and that's fine. You seem to have two votes, so far. You must feel so proud!

[Bellhorn04]

They'd have cried, for sure, whether the reason is justified or not is another issue.

 

My main point was about trading Bogey last winter or the one before and Devers, now.

 

There is very little reason to think fans would not be bawling their eyes out over a Bogey or Devers trade.

 

Some are still crying about Lester.

 

Some are still crying about Fred Lynn.

 

Let's not forget a guy named Mookie Betts.

 

Isn't it okay to cry if you think they're the wrong moves? Don't we all do that?

[Old Red]

But you seem to be saying that if they had a fire sale in July and traded Bogey, JD, Eovaldi etc., anyone who didn't like the fact they were throwing in the towel on 2022 when they were 3 games out of a Wild Card would be a crybaby.

 

I would say that sums it up pretty well. It’s like the kid who says you have to play my way, or I’ll take my toys, and go home.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Fans just want to watch and cheer their team and favorite players trying to win... and for their team to keep their favorite players so they can keep watching and cheering for them. If they don't, considerably less people will cry than the ones who will turn off their TVs.

 

Average fans not posting daily on forums don't care about salary and budgets. They all know that pro athletes make kajillions and owners of sports teams are kajillionaires.

 

But there are very few Red Sox fans who could give a crap whether their favorite player makes $25 million instead of $30 million.

[Old Red]

Fans just want to watch and cheer their team and favorite players trying to win... and for their team to keep their favorite players so they can keep watching and cheering for them. If they don't, considerably less people will cry than the ones who will turn off their TVs.

 

Average fans not posting daily on forums don't care about salary and budgets. They all know that pro athletes make kajillions and owners of sports teams are kajillionaires.

 

But there are very few Red Sox fans who could give a crap whether their favorite player makes $25 million instead of $30 million.

Agree, and I don’t think the average fan gets deep into things as they do on here, and really don’t want to do anymore then watch the games, and hope for a win, cheer for their favorite players, and a trip to the postseason.

[Old Red]

Some are still crying about Fred Lynn.

 

Let's not forget a guy named Mookie Betts.

 

Isn't it okay to cry if you think they're the wrong moves? Don't we all do that?

I’m still bummed about Fisk myself.

[mvp 78]

But you seem to be saying that if they had a fire sale in July and traded Bogey, JD, Eovaldi etc., anyone who didn't like the fact they were throwing in the towel on 2022 when they were 3 games out of a Wild Card would be a crybaby.

 

Wow, sounds like you're kinda being a crybaby about moon's complaints over crybabies. Seems like we got a lot of crybabies over here!

[mvp 78]

Had you written this in the 3rd person, it would have been more fitting.

 

We all know you will vote for yourself, in this imaginary poll, and that's fine. You seem to have two votes, so far. You must feel so proud!

 

MVP would never write in the third person.

 

You should go cry about it though.

[mvp 78]

Agree, and I don’t think the average fan gets deep into things as they do on here, and really don’t want to do anymore then watch the games, and hope for a win, cheer for their favorite players, and a trip to the postseason.

 

Yup.

[mvp 78]

I’m still bummed about Fisk myself.

 

Typical crybaby post.

[Old Red]

Wow, sounds like you're kinda being a crybaby about moon's complaints over crybabies. Seems like we got a lot of crybabies over here!

 

It’s contagious.

[Old Red]

Typical crybaby post.

 

Guilty!

[notin]

Fans just want to watch and cheer their team and favorite players trying to win... and for their team to keep their favorite players so they can keep watching and cheering for them. If they don't, considerably less people will cry than the ones who will turn off their TVs.

 

Average fans not posting daily on forums don't care about salary and budgets. They all know that pro athletes make kajillions and owners of sports teams are kajillionaires.

 

But there are very few Red Sox fans who could give a crap whether their favorite player makes $25 million instead of $30 million.

 

But if fans had to choose between keeping their favorite players and winning, what do you think the choice would be? Because sometimes it does come down to that…

[mvp 78]

But if fans had to choose between keeping their favorite players and winning, what do you think the choice would be? Because sometimes it does come down to that…

 

If it works, people are fine with it. However, it's hard to justify the Betts trade when it's followed up in the near term with seasons like 2020 and 2022. Unfortunately, they didn't quite make it in 2021 (didn't win the division, lost in the ALCS). If they don't win soon, how can ownership explain away losing Betts (who won a ring in LA), Xander and potentially Raffy?

[Old Red]

But if fans had to choose between keeping their favorite players and winning, what do you think the choice would be? Because sometimes it does come down to that…

 

Losing Mookie did not make the team better. Losing Bogey will not make the team better. Losing Raffy will not make the team better. Now the Red Sox May still win, but it won’t be, because they lost those players.

[notin]

Losing Mookie did not make the team better. Losing Bogey will not make the team better. Losing Raffy will not make the team better. Now the Red Sox May still win, but it won’t be, because they lost those players.

 

That wasn’t the question. It was a simple hypothetical question…