Best Red Sox SS of All Time

[moonslav59]

Mookie probably breaks the cycle (age helps him) but the Sox actually have an above average track record of knowing when to move on from a guy.

 

I've said this a number of times.

 

There are examples where they kept some fan favorites around a bit too long, not that each moves was without justification without my supporting opinion:

 

Schilling (signed him for 2008 at $8M, which was pretty big money, back then)

VTek (although it was VTek who turned down a bigger contract)

Lowell (last 2 years had a -0.1 bWAR)

Youkilis (should not really count, since he did very well for the first 3 years of the 4 year deal, but we traded him during year 4.)

Pedroia (looked like a decent to very good deal to most fans I knew, at the time)

Buchholz (at his age, the deal looked solid. This example should not really fit into the aging players we kept vs letting go, but I though worth mentioning)

Sale (bringing this fan fave back on a longer range deal has just about run out of time for any redemption.)

 

We let JBJ walk, then made a boo-boo bringing him back.

 

I do agree, we let manny of our fan faves go, just in time. I don't see this as being an issue with this team over 2 decades, but recently, it seems to be made out to be a bad thing.

 

 

[moonslav59]

The Sox also have a history of winning titles in those non-tank years, right?

 

Some thought 2013 was going to be a "tank year."

[mvp 78]

Does Xander really have that many years in front of him?

 

I could see him being a MLBer for another ten years! But I wouldn’t be surprised to see him hit a wall and no longer be an everyday player in just a few years.

 

It’s not unreasonable to assume something inbetween.

 

That's the big question with Xander. There's speculation about his drop in power, about moving him off SS. Who knows what he looks like in 5 years. I think his bat to ball skills and general athleticism should keep him relatively productive for a long time, but you never really know.

[mvp 78]

The Sox also have a history of winning titles in those non-tank years, right?

 

The future is unwritten. They may go another 86 years without winning again. The playoffs are a crapshoot.

[mvp 78]

That does depend on other moves, doesn’t it?

 

What were the moves to replace Mookie? In 3 years, they still haven't found a steady RF replacement. What will be the long term solution at SS? Probably just wait for one of the young guys to be ready. Devers? If he goes, what will they do at 3b? Is it some combination of Lugo/Bonaci/Paulino/et al?

 

This is next year's FA class for 3b:

 

Third Basemen

 

Matt Chapman (31)

Rafael Devers (27)

Josh Donaldson (38) – $16MM club option with an $8MM buyout*

Eduardo Escobar (35) – $9MM club option with a $500K buyout

Manny Machado (31) – can opt out of remaining five years, $150MM

Mike Moustakas (35) – $20MM club option with a $4MM buyout*

Max Muncy (33) – $10MM club option

Gio Urshela (32)

Joey Wendle (34)

[Hugh2]

What were the moves to replace Mookie? In 3 years, they still haven't found a steady RF replacement. What will be the long term solution at SS? Probably just wait for one of the young guys to be ready. Devers? If he goes, what will they do at 3b? Is it some combination of Lugo/Bonaci/Paulino/et al?

 

This is next year's FA class for 3b:

 

Third Basemen

 

Matt Chapman (31)

Rafael Devers (27)

Josh Donaldson (38) – $16MM club option with an $8MM buyout*

Eduardo Escobar (35) – $9MM club option with a $500K buyout

Manny Machado (31) – can opt out of remaining five years, $150MM

Mike Moustakas (35) – $20MM club option with a $4MM buyout*

Max Muncy (33) – $10MM club option

Gio Urshela (32)

Joey Wendle (34)

 

You can slide Correa over there in 2024 to make room for Marcelo Mayer.

[mvp 78]

You can slide Correa over there in 2024 to make room for Marcelo Mayer.

 

Because Mayer and other prospects will be closer to being ready in 2024, the Sox should have gone all out in 2022 and 2023 and just blown out the lux tax with short term money. Reset in 2024 as the tank/bridge year.

[Bellhorn04]

Some thought 2013 was going to be a "tank year."

 

Not really. They had just freed up a pile of money with the Dodgers trade.

[mvp 78]

Not really. They had just freed up a pile of money with the Dodgers trade.

 

Yeah, I don't remember anyone saying it'd be a tank year. People just didn't assume they'd go on the run they did.

[moonslav59]

What were the moves to replace Mookie? In 3 years, they still haven't found a steady RF replacement. What will be the long term solution at SS? Probably just wait for one of the young guys to be ready. Devers? If he goes, what will they do at 3b? Is it some combination of Lugo/Bonaci/Paulino/et al?

 

This is next year's FA class for 3b:

 

Third Basemen

 

Matt Chapman (31)

Rafael Devers (27)

Josh Donaldson (38) – $16MM club option with an $8MM buyout*

Eduardo Escobar (35) – $9MM club option with a $500K buyout

Manny Machado (31) – can opt out of remaining five years, $150MM

Mike Moustakas (35) – $20MM club option with a $4MM buyout*

Max Muncy (33) – $10MM club option

Gio Urshela (32)

Joey Wendle (34)

 

They did not really replace Mookie or his contract. Renfroe did fine on offense, one year, but he was soon gone.

 

The good feeling options on the FA market list is one deep: Nimmo, but I seriously doubt we will even be a final contender for his services.

[Bellhorn04]

They did not really replace Mookie or his contract. Renfroe did fine on offense, one year, but he was soon gone.

 

The good feeling options on the FA market list is one deep: Nimmo, but I seriously doubt we will even be a final contender for his services.

 

Time to take a closer look at Hanigar, who's on our Reported Interest list.

[moonslav59]

Not really. They had just freed up a pile of money with the Dodgers trade.

 

And, they signed no real big names. Vic was the biggest at $13M x 3.

 

My point was that at the start of the year, many felt about the same as the start to the "tank years" MVP mentioned.

 

To me, only at the start of 2020 have I ever felt we'd finish in last place, since JH's tenure began.

[moonslav59]

Time to take a closer look at Hanigar, who's on our Reported Interest list.

 

Nobody can really replace Mookie, but to me, Haniger is a big step below Nimmo. His health is the big worry, so if he's okay, he would be better than Renfroe... maybe.

[Bellhorn04]

And, they signed no real big names. Vic was the biggest at $13M x 3.

 

My point was that at the start of the year, many felt about the same as the start to the "tank years" MVP mentioned.

 

You must be talking about some of the nutjobs on BDC.

[Bellhorn04]

Nobody can really replace Mookie, but to me, Haniger is a big step below Nimmo. His health is the big worry, so if he's okay, he would be better than Renfroe... maybe.

 

Who said anything about replacing Mookie? I know I missed some of the train of conversation.

[moonslav59]

Who said anything about replacing Mookie? I know I missed some of the train of conversation.

 

MVP:

 

What were the moves to replace Mookie?

[Bellhorn04]

MVP:

 

What were the moves to replace Mookie?

 

A: No such thing.

[moonslav59]

You must be talking about some of the nutjobs on BDC.

 

Nobody was saying we'd finish last in 2013 or the years MVP mentioned, except 2020. Nobody said the word "tank," that I remember, but the pre-season outlook was very similar to 2012 and 2014.

[moonslav59]

A: No such thing.

 

They did "replace him-" just not anywhere near in kind, as expected.

 

I think his point was more about how little we did to even get to average in RF.

[mvp 78]

MVP:

 

What were the moves to replace Mookie?

 

2020: Verdugo

2021: Renfroe

2022: JBJ

2023: ???

[mvp 78]

Who said anything about replacing Mookie? I know I missed some of the train of conversation.

 

In reference to Devers leaving and Sox fans being left outside in the rain again, notin said "well it depends on the other moves made."

 

I followed up with the question about what replaced Mookie. If these guys are leaving, what are these other moves that are making up for the loses? As of now, I don't see the benefit of letting guys like Mookie, Xander and Raffy leave. The Sox haven't shown that they've been able to adequately replace their value through other means.

[Bellhorn04]

They did "replace him-" just not anywhere near in kind, as expected.

 

I think his point was more about how little we did to even get to average in RF.

 

Trading Mookie was the start of a new era in Patience, Discipline and Process!

 

Yes, I am edging toward bitter cynicism about the Sox these days...

[mvp 78]

They did "replace him-" just not anywhere near in kind, as expected.

 

I think his point was more about how little we did to even get to average in RF.

 

Which means it matters when these guys walk out the door. We can't just expect the Sox to be able to fill these big shoes.

[mvp 78]

Trading Mookie was the start of a new era in Patience, Discipline and Process!

 

Yes, I am edging toward bitter cynicism about the Sox these days...

 

Bloom is practicing patience.

 

Fans are being disciplined.

[Bellhorn04]

Bloom is practicing patience.

 

Fans are being disciplined.

 

And anyone who thought they might have a feel-good move by now should know better...

[mvp 78]

And anyone who thought they might have a feel-good move by now should know better...

 

Will there be a nice Christmas present to open?

[Hugh2]

Prediction: Sox will make MAJOR move within the next 180 hours…..starting now

[moonslav59]

Prediction: Sox will make MAJOR move within the next 180 hours…..starting now

 

You are really putting your chances at the Poster of the Year Award at risk.

 

Hats off to going all out, until the end.

[Hugh2]

You are really putting your chances at the Poster of the Year Award at risk.

 

Hats off to going all out, until the end.

 

Throwing all my chips in. This will make…or break me

[Bobe2]

And anyone who thought they might have a feel-good move by now should know better...

 

They traded Mookie less than a year after he won a World Series, league MVP, a gold glove and a silver slugger award in one year, Could be one of the worst trades since the Babe