Best Red Sox SS of All Time

[moonslav59]

In theory it's not Turner money? I haven't seen any estimates really. We're just throwing WAGs out there right now. Yes, Bogey could have an offer on the table that is too much money from another club. However, if that were the case, I think the Sox would have simply walked away today and there wouldn't be the hubbub.

 

What's your upper limit?

 

I wouldn't be too upset with $200M/8, but I'm thinking it might take more, these days.

 

He probably gets $225M/8

[mvp 78]

What's your upper limit?

 

I wouldn't be too upset with $200M/8, but I'm thinking it might take more, these days.

 

He probably gets $225M/8

 

If he signs for 8/225, it's high but I won't be a CRYBABY about it for sure. They still need to re-sign Raffy.

[mvp 78]

@tylermilliken_

Joey Wendle has been a name coming up in trade talks for the Red Sox, per @chadjennings22.

 

He’s coming off a down season, after slashing .259/.297/.360/.658 with an 86 OPS+ in 101 games.

 

He’s part of a “revolving and evolving list of SS possibilities.”

[mvp 78]

Per BTV:

McDonough or Hamilton or Taylor

 

for

 

Wendle

 

If they wanted something better like Seabold? Ok.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

@tylermilliken_

Joey Wendle has been a name coming up in trade talks for the Red Sox, per @chadjennings22.

 

He’s coming off a down season, after slashing .259/.297/.360/.658 with an 86 OPS+ in 101 games.

 

He’s part of a “revolving and evolving list of SS possibilities.”

 

Whatever... we all know Wendle from his Tampa past as an excellent defensive third baseman. Just in case...

[mvp 78]

Whatever... we all know Wendle from his Tampa past as an excellent defensive third baseman. Just in case...

 

Wendle is a healthier replacement for Arroyo IMO.

 

Career GS:

251 2B

225 3B

89 3B

18 OF

[mvp 78]

Per DRS:

2B 29

3B 2

SS 8

 

Per UZR/150

2B 10.9

3B -1.1

SS 5.3

 

Seems like his best defensive position would be 2B followed by SS.

[mvp 78]

I guess Kiké is pretty good!

 

https://twitter.com/RedSox/status/1630275682419761152

[moonslav59]

Interesting thread choice.

[mvp 78]

FanGraphs did their positional power rankings for SS.

 

Padres: 6th, 5.1 fWAR

Sox: 13th, 3.6 fWAR

 

Boy, this would look better with Trevor Story. Hernández pulled off a neat trick by turning into an excellent defensive center fielder in his first two seasons in Boston, but he’ll have to do it again at another up-the-middle position this year in the wake of Story’s potentially season-ending surgery. He’ll also need to get right offensively; a severe power outage led to a miserable 75 wRC+. It seems to be more pitch selection and consistency related than a loss of ability to drive the ball, which explains why our projections expect a return to normalcy, but that’ll be something to keep an eye on as the Sox try to cobble together a solid shortstop out of two part-timers.

 

Mondesi is that second part-timer. While Hernández will split his time between short and center, Mondesi will split his between short and the injured list if history is any guide. He’ll miss the start of the season rehabbing the ACL he tore last year, and even when he’s back in action, he’ll be a mystery box: he’s hardly played in the last two years, so projecting his output is wildly speculative. He’s always been a brilliant defender, but his offense has never quite come together. Boston is hoping he’ll fulfill the promise he showed early in his career. Even if he doesn’t, though, 280 plate appearances of competent defense would do quite nicely.

[mvp 78]

@973TheFanSD

Big news from Padres spring training camp.

 

Mike Shildt says that Xander Bogaerts will go to second base, while Ha-Seong Kim will play shortstop.

[notin]

@973TheFanSD

Big news from Padres spring training camp.

 

Mike Shildt says that Xander Bogaerts will go to second base, while Ha-Seong Kim will play shortstop.

 

Kim is probably the best defender of the five shortstops starting for the Padres. This does make sense. But it makes me wonder how Xander feels.

 

Also part of me wonders if putting Kim in the tougher position is for that Opening Day audience in Seoul…

[mvp 78]

Kim is probably the best defender of the five shortstops starting for the Padres. This does make sense. But it makes me wonder how Xander feels.

 

Also part of me wonders if putting Kim in the tougher position is for that Opening Day audience in Seoul…

 

Xander got his bag. I'm sure he's made peace with it.

[moonslav59]

He is better utilized at 2B.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Xander got his bag. I'm sure he's made peace with it.

 

He kinda resembles an old Grissom.

[sk7326]

Does anyone else finds it concerning that all of Bogaert's positive defensive value came in the shift? Take the shift away and he had negative DRS. He's passable, but a move to 3B is enevitable.

 

I dunno - he was 13th in Statcast OAA among qualified shortstops in 2022, 16th in 2023. He is moving to 2B this season because the Padres want to promote a guy. But Bogaerts worked hard to make himself an acceptable SS.

 

I think one of the things that colors Bogaerts' time here is how became a very good player but a very different than was advertised as a prospect.

 

Bogaerts vs Nomar is interesting in that Nomar had a bunch of true MVP-caliber seasons compared to Xander but he was done as a quality regular by age 29.

[moonslav59]

I dunno - he was 13th in Statcast OAA among qualified shortstops in 2022, 16th in 2023.

 

He also had his best DRS numbers from '22-'23 (+1), but he still placed just 17th out of 32 SSs with 1000+ innings over at SS over the past 2 seasons.

 

He placed 15th in UZR/150 at +2.3.

 

2014-2021 (35 SSs with 3,000+ innings)

19th in UZR/150 at +0.2

35th out of 35 in DRS at -55 (203 DRS'd behind Simmons!)

[sk7326]

He also had his best DRS numbers from '22-'23 (+1), but he still placed just 17th out of 32 SSs with 1000+ innings over at SS over the past 2 seasons.

 

He placed 15th in UZR/150 at +2.3.

 

2014-2021 (35 SSs with 3,000+ innings)

19th in UZR/150 at +0.2

35th out of 35 in DRS at -55 (203 DRS'd behind Simmons!)

 

I give him a lot of credit to improve to "fine" at SS - not plus, but not a minus and a very good player when you add the bat. But makes sense for him to move.

[moonslav59]

I give him a lot of credit to improve to "fine" at SS - not plus, but not a minus and a very good player when you add the bat. But makes sense for him to move.

 

It should be noted that while his D improved from '22-'23, his offense, while fine, was his worst back-to-back 2 year stretch in his last 6 years.

 

OPS+

135 in '18

139 '19 (137 2 yrs)

128 '20

129 '21 (129 2 yrs)

131 '22

120 '23 (125 over 2 yrs)

 

wRC+

133, 141

129, 129

133, 120

 

It's not a big drop off, but it is concerning for such a long contract.

[mvp 78]

Yeah, you don't pay 280M for Xander's glove even if improved. The drop off of his offense is concerning, but we've seen his offense fluctuate from year to year due to various injury issues in the past. Maybe it's something he sorts out this year?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Yeah, you don't pay 280M for Xander's glove even if improved. The drop off of his offense is concerning, but we've seen his offense fluctuate from year to year due to various injury issues in the past. Maybe it's something he sorts out this year?

 

This may mean something: https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/statcast-park-factors

 

Quick summary: Fenway is ranked #2 overall for batters; Petco in SD is #30...

[mvp 78]

This may mean something: https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/statcast-park-factors

 

Quick summary: Fenway is ranked #2 overall for batters; Petco in SD is #30...

 

736 Away OPS. 848 Home.

 

Petco is bad for HR and 3B, but that's not really part of Xander's game. He's a 2B's and 1B's guy.

 

Every year, his home and away numbers have gone down. It's not just a Petco Park issue. If his home splits were cratering but his away split held the same, you could blame Petco. That didn't happen.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

736 Away OPS. 848 Home.

 

Petco is bad for HR and 3B, but that's not really part of Xander's game. He's a 2B's and 1B's guy.

 

Every year, his home and away numbers have gone down. It's not just a Petco Park issue. If his home splits were cratering but his away split held the same, you could blame Petco. That didn't happen.

 

Not blaming Petco, but savant's stats show it isn't a location that would boost a batter's performance (even for $280 million).

 

Remember when Bogie would just poke singles the other way and hit .320 -- and Sox management coaxed him to go for more power? Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of VPs...

[mvp 78]

Not blaming Petco, but savant's stats show it isn't a location that would boost a batter's performance (even for $280 million).

 

Remember when Bogie would just poke singles the other way and hit .320 -- and Sox management coaxed him to go for more power? Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of VPs...

 

Away splits

 

2023 736

2022 779

2021 796

2020 936 SSS!

2019 877

2018 800

 

The last time he had an away split this bad was 2017 when he hit 726. That was the year he was hit on the year and struggle hitting all year long. That's why I suggested that there could be something else going on and that maybe he can pull out of it next season. Or, he's just getting older.

[moonslav59]

This may mean something: https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/statcast-park-factors

 

Quick summary: Fenway is ranked #2 overall for batters; Petco in SD is #30...

 

OPS+ factors in the park played in.