The Pen

[TylerD]

Starters just don't go deep in games very often these days . That's how it is . And the bullpen is more than just the ninth inning. If you still had Kimbrel , or a reasonable alternative , you would still have Barnes and Brasier as well . The bullpen becomes deeper and better in every inning .

 

Depends on what team you are looking at. The top ten teams in pitching from Tampa to Houston have had some very good innings from their rotation..... Now if you look at teams like Boston, Baltimore, Kansas City etc.... Then yes I suppose you are right.... They don't go deep. But the hope is your start will give you 6 innings if not 7 with the bullpen having to go 2 innings or possibly 3. Our bullpen has had much more work than that. Granted with saying that the rotation as of late has looked pretty solid. I am more talking about the first 3 series of the season.

[moonslav59]

Small sample sizes, but...

 

Contract & WAR, so far

$39M/3 Britton 0.3 (39th in MLB)

$30M/3 Familia

$27M/3 Ottavino

$25M/2 AMiller

$23M/2 Robertson

$25M/3 Kelly

$18M/2 Herrera 0.3 (24th)

$15M/2 Soria 0.2 (62nd)

$10M/2 JWilson

$8.5M/1 CAllen

 

If no WAR is listed, they are not at 0.0 or better or in the top 250 RP'ers in MLB.

 

The Sox currently have 7 RP'ers at 0.1 or better and Brasier at 0.0.

 

[bkzwhitestrican]

Small sample sizes, but...

 

Contract & WAR, so far

$39M/3 Britton 0.3 (39th in MLB)

$30M/3 Familia

$27M/3 Ottavino

$25M/2 AMiller

$23M/2 Robertson

$25M/3 Kelly

$18M/2 Herrera 0.3 (24th)

$15M/2 Soria 0.2 (62nd)

$10M/2 JWilson

$8.5M/1 CAllen

 

If no WAR is listed, they are not at 0.0 or better or in the top 250 RP'ers in MLB.

 

The Sox currently have 7 RP'ers at 0.1 or better and Brasier at 0.0.

 

 

Strange. Ottavino hasn't been lights out but he still has a 2.77 ERA and 11.8 K/9 rate. Not sure if there are 250 relievers who have done better than that.

[moonslav59]

Strange. Ottavino hasn't been lights out but he still has a 2.77 ERA and 11.8 K/9 rate. Not sure if there are 250 relievers who have done better than that.

 

He's at 0.1 (113th). I guess I missed him.

 

It's early.

 

Small sample sizes.

 

WAR is not very good for RP'ers.

[Kimmi]

The way the game is today , the bullpen comes into play just about every day . If it is substandard, it will be exposed . Say what you will , the pen is still the number one concern about this team .

 

The pen is not the reason why we are where we are.

 

If the Sox fail to make the playoffs, which I don't see happening, it will be because the starters and/or position players do not perform up to expectations, which has been the case so far.

[Kimmi]

When you subtract Kimbrel and Kelly, you subtract an elite closer and semi reliable pen arm. When you subtract Wright and Johnson and move Velazquez to the rotation, you lose any multi inning depth you had. When you replace them with Brewer and ???, you create a depth problem. This forces guys who aren’t suited for high leverage roles to be pushed into high leverage roles. This is why you saw Hembree in a tied game and Brewer in a tied game only to blow it. You’ve got two reliable pen arms. Walden is showing good signs early, maybe he becomes a third. The rest are a conglomerate of dumpster fires. I know you brought up Lakins. Who knows how he fares. I know you had Hernandez up, but I expect him to go to Portland and work on being a starter. But as of now, if your starter doesn’t go seven and hand over a lead, it’s a crap shoot as to whether you’ll make it to the reliable part of the pen. This is why every win you’ve had has been close.

 

The guys being forced into high leverage roles who aren't suited for high leverage roles is the fault of the starters not doing their job.

 

The pen is #3 out of 3 on the list of reasons why our record stinks.

[SCM33]

Love how moonslav continues to argue obscure saber stats about the bullpen that sucked last year, and is even worse this year.

 

Keep throwing those numbers out there, it further proves they don't always matter. THEY SUCK THIS YEAR, and for the most part, THEY SUCKED LAST YEAR.

[SCM33]

Barnes sucks.

[Bellhorn04]

Love how moonslav continues to argue obscure saber stats about the bullpen that sucked last year, and is even worse this year.

 

Keep throwing those numbers out there, it further proves they don't always matter. THEY SUCK THIS YEAR, and for the most part, THEY SUCKED LAST YEAR.

 

WAR isn't an obscure stat any more, unless you've been asleep for the last 5 years. It sure beats the crap out of 'I SAY THEY SUCKED'.

[moonslav59]

WAR isn't an obscure stat any more, unless you've been asleep for the last 5 years. It sure beats the crap out of 'I SAY THEY SUCKED'.

 

Just ignore the clown.

 

Our pen was easily ranked 10th to 14th last year in just about every traditional or advanced standard. That's above average, at worst.

 

This year is another story, although they have done better than I expected.

[mvp 78]

Dump Hembree today.

[moonslav59]

Dump Hembree today.

 

I'd dump Thornburg & Brewer before I'd think about doing the same with Hembree.

[mvp 78]

I'd dump Thornburg & Brewer before I'd think about doing the same with Hembree.

 

Hembree has the worst FIP in the pen outside of Poyner.

[YastrzemskI]

Hembree has the worst FIP in the pen outside of Poyner.

 

As bad as Hembree has been.. he is merely Poyner's apprentice.

If you wanna have fun watching batting practice, he's your man.

[mvp 78]

As bad as Hembree has been.. he is merely Poyner's apprentice.

If you wanna have fun watching batting practice, he's your man.

 

The most fun I ever had at Fenway was sitting on the Monster while Frank Thomas took batting practice.

[kenmeister]

I'd dump Thornburg & Brewer before I'd think about doing the same with Hembree.

 

I'm okay with dumping all 3. Velazquez + Barnes + Brasier + Workman + Walden is a good core. Hernandez and Lakins show promise, and that makes 7. Even when Johnson comes off the disabled list I'm not sure he cracks the top 7, but I'm open minded to seeing how he plays then.

[vegasbob]

Meanwhile, Joe Kelly continues to blow up in LA. Cody Allen has been demoted from being the Angels closer. There will come a time in a couple months when there will be some changes made by the Sox. But if the bats stay reasonably alive they can manage with most of this bullpen.

[mvp 78]

If you exclude one game, Mejia has a 0.87 ERA in 10 1/3 innings, with 10k/0bb.

 

Call him the f*** up and get rid of Thornburg or Brewer.

[moonslav59]

If you exclude one game, Mejia has a 0.87 ERA in 10 1/3 innings, with 10k/0bb.

 

Call him the f*** up and get rid of Thornburg or Brewer.

 

Time to cut ties with Thornburg.

 

We've waited long enough.

[Hitch]

Time to cut ties with Thornburg.

 

We've waited long enough.

 

Absolutely. End it now.

[Swiharts Ghost]

The man has to be tipping right ? He can't possibly be squared up every at bat .Such a shame .Time to release has come .

[vegasbob]

All of the above notes were written before Thornburg's atrocious outing in last night's 9th inning. He really has problems that are not resolved . Cora is giving him plenty of rope to hang himself and TT is is becoming a knot master at it.

[Bellhorn04]

They haven't DFA'd Thornburg yet so I guess they'll give him another shot or two in blowout spots. The team is much more patient than we are, which is generally a good thing.

[dgalehouse]

In general , the bullpen has exceeded even the most optimistic of expectations. But we will always find something to be upset about . In this case , it is Thornburg. Kill him .

[kenmeister]

Time to cut ties with Thornburg.

 

We've waited long enough.

 

When I went to sleep Oakland had 1 run. When I woke up and checked the score, I saw they had 3. I thought, "Oh no, did they let Thornburg pitch?" even before I checked the box score.

[notin]

They haven't DFA'd Thornburg yet so I guess they'll give him another shot or two in blowout spots. The team is much more patient than we are, which is generally a good thing.

 

I don’t think Thornburg will get DFAd. (Kiss of Death with my prediction?)

 

His velocity is up nearly a full mph from last year and just shy of where it was in Milwaukee when he was an effective reliever. I think they have hope he can straighten a few things up in some mop up spots...

[Bellhorn04]

I don’t think Thornburg will get DFAd. (Kiss of Death with my prediction?)

 

His velocity is up nearly a full mph from last year and just shy of where it was in Milwaukee when he was an effective reliever. I think they have hope he can straighten a few things up in some mop up spots...

 

Yeah I noticed the velocity seemed to be there.

[notin]

Yeah I noticed the velocity seemed to be there.

 

 

Most of his problems probably stem from only pitching 24 innings total over the last two seasons...

[Bellhorn04]

Most of his problems probably stem from only pitching 24 innings total over the last two seasons...

 

You are the Official Thornburg Voice of Reason.

[notin]

You are the Official Thornburg Voice of Reason.

 

 

Well, in high school, I was voted Most Likely to Rationally Defend Injured Relief Pitchers...