The Pen

[mvp 78]

The bullpen hasnt been so bad lately.

 

Because of Walden, not Barnes.

 

Barnes shits his pants in any close/late situation. Barnes is perfect for the 6th inning with a 3 run lead.

 

Do you watch these games? To say he shits his pants in any close situation is hilarious.

[moonslav59]

Do you watch these games? To say he shits his pants in any close situation is hilarious.

 

Yes!

 

He was lights out in the 2018 playoffs, unlike Kimbrel. His career playoff ERA is 0.87.

 

He has 13 appearances this year- all in the 8th or 9th innings. He's had 3 bad games out of 13. Not great but not bad either.

 

[notin]

Do you watch these games? To say he shits his pants in any close situation is hilarious.

 

 

He seems to like trashing Barnes and Leon over stuff that doesn’t happen...

[mvp 78]

He seems to like trashing Barnes and Leon over stuff that doesn’t happen...

 

Body issues. Big is beautiful.

[Slasher9]

He seems to like trashing Barnes and Leon over stuff that doesn’t happen...

 

Swihart should be closing games instead of Barnes!

[notin]

Swihart should be closing games instead of Barnes!

 

Swihart can play four positions!! At once!!

[Hitch]

He seems to like trashing Barnes and Leon over stuff that doesn’t happen...

 

He's just an angry confused fella. He seems the type to want Leon to fail, so he can say 'told you so'.

 

Every fan group has them.

[Kimmi]

But isn't a manager giving his team the best chance to win if he tries to maintain a lead rather than risk falling behind and saving that best reliever for a situation that may never happen - because the team is now behind?

 

I'v always been a believer in having a CLOSER. A guy who can go out there in the 9th and to the job, but now I'm coming around to thinking that there's a better way to use that shut-down guy, and it's to bring him in for the highest leverage situations.

 

As Leo DeRocher said, "Don't save a pitcher for tomorrow. It may rain tomorrow".

 

S5Dewey is now beginning to say, "Don't save your best reliever for the 9th. You may be behind in the 9th."

 

What you are saying is completely true when you get to the later innings. When you're still in the 5th or 6th innings, it's too early in the game to start making the 'do or die' moves that you would make in later innings.

 

Similar to the aforementioned sac bunt. Playing for one run in the 6th inning is not typically the best % move.

[Kimmi]

i dont think our BP has been a problem at all this season? how many games have they "cost" us? you can say the game 4 days ago but i could argue that one was on devers.

our BP is fine.

our lineup is fine.

our SP is fine.

this is a championship caliber team.

back to back to back to back.

book it.

 

^^100% this.

[SCM33]

Swihart should be closing games instead of Barnes!

 

Yes. This is probably true.

 

Swihart can play four positions!! At once!!

 

Not at once, but it is still 3 more positions that fat s*** can play.

 

He's just an angry confused fella. He seems the type to want Leon to fail, so he can say 'told you so'.

 

Every fan group has them.

 

I dont have to "want" Leon to fail. He will fail because he sucks on his own.

[Bellhorn04]

Might as well say it: it could still be a problem.

 

Cora is obviously not feeling a lot of trust of it and is trying to push the starters to go deeper.

[notin]

Might as well say it: it could still be a problem.

 

Cora is obviously not feeling a lot of trust of it and is trying to push the starters to go deeper.

 

Yes.

 

Either Cora trusts very, very few relievers in his bullpen or just keeps falling asleep in the 7th and 8th innings of games, before he takes out the starter.

 

This is clearly on Dombrowski. But hey, at least Pearce is carrying the team.

 

Oh wait...

[Bellhorn04]

Barnes has been terrific.

 

Walden has been the big pleasant surprise DD was hoping for.

 

Workman has been as good or better than anyone could have hoped.

 

But Brasier is clearly struggling.

 

And after that, good luck.

[notin]

Barnes has been terrific.

 

Walden has been the big pleasant surprise DD was hoping for.

 

Workman has been as good or better than anyone could have hoped.

 

But Brasier is clearly struggling.

 

And after that, good luck.

 

 

And I get that with Hembree, he has a track record and it’s only been 6 weeks. And with Thornburg, his velocity is back up and it might be a good sign.

 

At some point with those two, it might be time to make a decision.

 

But why are Brewer and Weber still in the majors? Seriously. It’s like Dombrowski is just filling roster spots with anyone, because Cora clearly has no intention of using either one any time soon...

[Maxbialystock]

Barnes isn't perfect, but he has some very good pitches and I think has been a good closer. I don't miss that prima donna Kimbrel one bit.

 

Brasier is struggling, true, but he too has good pitches. All three W's--Workman, Walden, and Weber--have been effective. Hembree is better than last year.

 

I think that leaves Brewer and Thornberg--2 question marks out of 8 total relievers.

 

All things considered, the rotation is a much bigger issue than the bullpen. They all started badly. Once they got into a groove, first Eovaldi and then Price went on the DL, which put extra strain on the bullpen.

Edited May 18, 2019 by Maxbialystock

[notin]

Brasier has only thrown 34 innings in the past 5 years. His track record is less than Thornburg’s. He might not actually be the pitcher DD thought he is...

[Bellhorn04]

Barnes isn't perfect, but he has some very good pitches and I think has been a good closer. I don't miss that prima donna Kimbrel one bit.

 

Brasier is struggling, true, but he too has good pitches. All three W's--Workman, Walden, and Weber--have been effective. Hembree is better than last year.

 

I think that leaves Brewer and Thornberg--2 question marks out of 8 total relievers.

 

All things considered, the rotation is a much bigger issue than the rotation. They all started badly. Once they got into a groove, first Eovaldi and then Price went on the DL, which put extra strain on the bullpen.

 

The rotation is fine now, aside from the injuries of course.

 

The emerging (and some would say predictable) issue is Cora's trust in the pen.

[notin]

The rotation is fine now, aside from the injuries of course.

 

The emerging (and some would say predictable) issue is Cora's trust in the pen.

 

 

The rotation has been outstanding lately.

 

To dismiss Brasier’s ineffectiveness so quickly might be a big mistake. The man has almost no track record of success. The Sox bullpen might not be good enough to support this team while waiting to see if Thornburg and Brewer ever come around....

[Maxbialystock]

The rotation is fine now, aside from the injuries of course.

 

The emerging (and some would say predictable) issue is Cora's trust in the pen.

 

I said the same thing on the game thread last night. I was furious. This morning I was a little more forgiving. Porcello was going great guns thru 7th, and had thrown I think 91 pitches, so why not send him out for the 8th? The tell-tale was the first hitter hit the ball hard for the Astros first extra base hit in the game. That's when Brasier needed to come, but did not.

 

In the game before, the 10 inning win over the Rockies, Cora left ERod pitch the 7th and didn't pull him until he had loaded the bases with no on out. In comes Barnes, who had pitched 2 innings the night before, who promptly gave up a 2 run single and later a ground ball for 1 more run to tie the score.

 

So I'm concerned too but am not sure there is enough evidence to be sure of the distrust. In both instances, the starters--ERod and Porcello--were pitching especially well, particularly in the inning just prior to blowing up.

[Kimmi]

Might as well say it: it could still be a problem.

 

Cora is obviously not feeling a lot of trust of it and is trying to push the starters to go deeper.

 

The pen might still be a problem, I agree with that.

 

That said, I am not getting that vibe at all from Cora about not trusting his bullpen. Porcello was cruising with a decent pitch count. Additionally, he knew that we had a bullpen day coming up the next day. I don't think he would push the starters to go deeper because he was concerned about using a relief pitcher. That is so against his philosophy.

[Kimmi]

Barnes has been terrific.

 

Walden has been the big pleasant surprise DD was hoping for.

 

Workman has been as good or better than anyone could have hoped.

 

But Brasier is clearly struggling.

 

And after that, good luck.

 

The pen pitched 8 innings yesterday and held a very potent Astros line up to 2 runs, not counting the starter Velazquez obviously.

 

In the game before, Porcello and the pen held the same very potent Astros line up to 3 runs.

 

IMO, the problem in our last 3 losses has been the offense's inability to get the big hit. Not our pitching, not our pen, not Cora.

 

Also, Houston is simply on fire right now. Not only to they have the talent, but that talent is playing very well right now. Tip your hat to them and hope to win today's game.

[Kimmi]

The rotation is fine now, aside from the injuries of course.

 

The emerging (and some would say predictable) issue is Cora's trust in the pen.

 

Again, I don't see Cora having trust issues with the pen.

 

In high leverage situations, any manager is going to stick with the same 2-3 relievers that he always does, if they are available.

[notin]

Again, I don't see Cora having trust issues with the pen.

 

In high leverage situations, any manager is going to stick with the same 2-3 relievers that he always does, if they are available.

 

 

He is leaving starters in beyond limits we see much later in the year...

[Bellhorn04]

The pen might still be a problem, I agree with that.

 

That said, I am not getting that vibe at all from Cora about not trusting his bullpen. Porcello was cruising with a decent pitch count.

 

A decent pitch count, yes, but with the top of the Astros order about to see him for the fourth time.

[Kimmi]

He is leaving starters in beyond limits we see much later in the year...

 

A decent pitch count, yes, but with the top of the Astros order about to see him for the fourth time.

 

Fair points.

 

I don't see it as a lack of trust. Cora was at the point in those games where he could turn to his high leverage guys who have been pitching very well.

 

We shall keep an eye on this.

[moonslav59]

The rotation has been outstanding lately.

 

To dismiss Brasier’s ineffectiveness so quickly might be a big mistake. The man has almost no track record of success. The Sox bullpen might not be good enough to support this team while waiting to see if Thornburg and Brewer ever come around....

 

I've been done "waiting" on Thornburg for quite a while.

 

He's never going to "come around," IMO.

[dgalehouse]

Here is a somewhat troubling fact : Barnes and Brasier have a combined total of 24 career save opportunities . Between them , they have 11 saves and 13 blown saves .

[notin]

I've been done "waiting" on Thornburg for quite a while.

 

He's never going to "come around," IMO.

 

 

17 innings is enough?

 

He might never come around, but I think a lot of people underestimate how far he has come back from a very difficult problem...

[moonslav59]

17 innings is enough?

 

He might never come around, but I think a lot of people underestimate how far he has come back from a very difficult problem...

 

I wanted him gone after last year.

 

These 17 innings only confirms what I already thought.

[dgalehouse]

Thornburg is hardly the problem. He has been used mainly with a big lead or a big deficit. He has a potential upside based on his history, and it is not hurting anything to use him this way to see if he can regain his form . Let's not scapegoat him .