The Pen

[Thunder]

I've hated Thornburg since I found out we traded Shaw for him. I loved me some Shaw

[kenmeister]

I've hated Thornburg since I found out we traded Shaw for him. I loved me some Shaw

 

Me too. I still rue that trade.

[Bellhorn04]

Cheer up guys. Shaw is off to a sucky start this year.

[dgalehouse]

Mejia is pitching well at Pawtucket . I would expect to see him at Fenway before long . On the other hand , our young phenom , Feltman , is struggling mightily at Portland .

[dgalehouse]

I think that Barnes is a best choice to close games . He is more the kind of strikeout pitcher that you want in that spot . And just harder to hit than Brasier . The idea of using your best reliever in a so called " high leverage " situation in the 7th or 8th ignores the special pressure of closing . Closing ain't easy . Barnes seems better suited to it than Brasier . What say you ?

[Kimmi]

I think that Barnes is a best choice to close games . He is more the kind of strikeout pitcher that you want in that spot . And just harder to hit than Brasier . The idea of using your best reliever in a so called " high leverage " situation in the 7th or 8th ignores the special pressure of closing . Closing ain't easy . Barnes seems better suited to it than Brasier . What say you ?

 

I think the way Cora has been handling the late innings so far has been good.

 

I wouldn't change it based off of last night's heartbreaking loss, which I can't even blame mainly on Brasier.

[mvp 78]

Cheer up guys. Shaw is off to a sucky start this year.

 

Thornbergesque

[devildavid]

I think that Barnes is a best choice to close games . He is more the kind of strikeout pitcher that you want in that spot . And just harder to hit than Brasier . The idea of using your best reliever in a so called " high leverage " situation in the 7th or 8th ignores the special pressure of closing . Closing ain't easy . Barnes seems better suited to it than Brasier . What say you ?

 

I say that if you do that and it fails then you will get those who support the high leverage approach saying the game can't be saved if your team is behind.

[notin]

I think that Barnes is a best choice to close games . He is more the kind of strikeout pitcher that you want in that spot . And just harder to hit than Brasier . The idea of using your best reliever in a so called " high leverage " situation in the 7th or 8th ignores the special pressure of closing . Closing ain't easy . Barnes seems better suited to it than Brasier . What say you ?

 

What makes you think closing has more pressure than high leverage situations?

 

Are you saying if the bases are loaded in the 8th with the Sox up by 3 and the 4-5-6 hitters coming up, the Sox should NOT use their best reliever and save him for the 7-8-9 hitters in the ninth because THAT is where the pressure is?

 

Any “special” pressure a pitcher faces when closing is probably created by the pitcher himself.

[notin]

I think the way Cora has been handling the late innings so far has been good.

 

I wouldn't change it based off of last night's heartbreaking loss, which I can't even blame mainly on Brasier.

 

Brasier didn’t have trouble with the alleged closing pressure in any other outings. Apparently Nicky Delmonico is his Kryptonite?

[Bellhorn04]

I think the way Cora has been handling the late innings so far has been good.

 

I wouldn't change it based off of last night's heartbreaking loss, which I can't even blame mainly on Brasier.

 

Agreed. In Cora I trust.

[jung]

You never know how a Pitcher is going to react to a particular situation until he has to face it. You also don't give a young Pitcher the chance to learn from it unless you allow him to face it. Have no issues with the way Cora has handled the late innings this year and remain convinced that he will continue to make judgements about whether the tougher opponent AB's will come in the 8th v 9th inning and will use Barnes/Brasier accordingly.

 

I do wish our Catchers would use what mound visits they have when they have them to burn. Vaz should have had at least 1 mound visit left at that point in the Thursday CWS game. Stop waiting for the Coach to bound out of the dugout. IMO A mound visit from Vaz would actually have been more effective for Brasier the other night even than a mound visit from DL. Tell him to "take a breath, calm down, your stuff is great.....I know because I am catching it. JUST THROW THE f***ING BALL."

[Kimmi]

I say that if you do that and it fails then you will get those who support the high leverage approach saying the game can't be saved if your team is behind.

 

There is no point in saving your 'closer' for a save situation that might never come.

 

Save the game when it needs to be saved. Don't lose the game with your best reliever sitting on the bench.

[Kimmi]

You never know how a Pitcher is going to react to a particular situation until he has to face it. You also don't give a young Pitcher the chance to learn from it unless you allow him to face it. Have no issues with the way Cora has handled the late innings this year and remain convinced that he will continue to make judgements about whether the tougher opponent AB's will come in the 8th v 9th inning and will use Barnes/Brasier accordingly.

 

I do wish our Catchers would use what mound visits they have when they have them to burn. Vaz should have had at least 1 mound visit left at that point in the Thursday CWS game. Stop waiting for the Coach to bound out of the dugout. IMO A mound visit from Vaz would actually have been more effective for Brasier the other night even than a mound visit from DL. Tell him to "take a breath, calm down, your stuff is great.....I know because I am catching it. JUST THROW THE f***ING BALL."

 

I agree about the mound visits. Not saying that Brasier was rattled after the error and the hit, but it wouldn't hurt to have Vaz go out and just talk to him for a few seconds.

[devildavid]

There is no point in saving your 'closer' for a save situation that might never come.

 

Save the game when it needs to be saved. Don't lose the game with your best reliever sitting on the bench.

 

This does seem to be trending as the bullpen approach. There is a sound logic to it.

[Bellhorn04]

There is no point in saving your 'closer' for a save situation that might never come.

 

Save the game when it needs to be saved. Don't lose the game with your best reliever sitting on the bench.

 

It does make perfect sense.

 

However, I still don't think we'll see many managers use their best reliever earlier than the 7th inning in a regular season game no matter what.

[Kimmi]

It does make perfect sense.

 

However, I still don't think we'll see many managers use their best reliever earlier than the 7th inning in a regular season game no matter what.

 

I agree that we likely won't see the ace reliever pitching before the 7th inning.

 

The thinking would be that there are still enough innings left for the offense to come back if the other team takes the lead.

[S5Dewey]

The role of the bullpen has evolved a lot in the past several years. 20 or so years ago a pitcher was relegated to the bullpen if they weren't good enough to start. Then teams started taking their best of the bullpen pitchers - usually a one or two-pitch pitcher - and making him the "Closer".

 

Then the trend became to still have the closer, but using the next best bullpen pitcher as a "set-up man", pitching the 8th inning, and for pitching rich teams that's now trickling down to a "7th inning guy" with everyone else in the bullpen being available if the staring pitcher can't go six innings.

 

Now the thinking is beginning to be having a "closer" and a "fireman", with a guy like Craig Kimbrel as the fireman and letting someone else close out the games.

 

What will be interesting now will be to see which of these relievers is more valuable to a team (in terms of salary) in the future, and how will the former "closers" (and their salaries) respond to not closing out games but instead putting out the fires earlier in the game.

[S5Dewey]

I agree that we likely won't see the ace reliever pitching before the 7th inning.

 

The thinking would be that there are still enough innings left for the offense to come back if the other team takes the lead.

 

I don't dispute what you're saying but I find that to be a very odd position. It says that a team will be willing to risk falling behind if they think they have enough innings to come back. Why not just use a "fireman" and stay ahead to begin with??

[Bellhorn04]

I don't dispute what you're saying but I find that to be a very odd position. It says that a team will be willing to risk falling behind if they think they have enough innings to come back. Why not just use a "fireman" and stay ahead to begin with??

 

I think there's a 'tipping point' where it's too early to employ that strategy - in regular season games, at least.

 

If you use your fireman in the 5th or 6th inning to preserve a lead it leaves 3 or more innings to cover with your lesser relievers. That's a lot of room for the other team to come back.

[dgalehouse]

If you don't believe that there is additional pressure pitching the ninth inning , then there is not much left to say . Of course , the Dorito munching nerds in the analytics room can't be expected to understand that . I don't see the new system of using the bullpen catching on all that much . Right now , I don't know if Cora regards Barnes or Brazier as his best reliever . Maybe the nerds know . They will tell him . In nerds we trust .

[Bellhorn04]

If you don't believe that there is additional pressure pitching the ninth inning , then there is not much left to say . Of course , the Dorito munching nerds in the analytics room can't be expected to understand that . I don't see the new system of using the bullpen catching on all that much . Right now , I don't know if Cora regards Barnes or Brazier as his best reliever . Maybe the nerds know . They will tell him . In nerds we trust .

 

No one's saying there isn't pressure in the ninth. You're still going to be using one of your two best relievers in the ninth. It's just that it might be the second-best one. The Guardians kind of had the perfect template when they had Miller as relief ace and Allen as closer.

 

And this is not some nerdtastic breakthrough. It's just common sense, really.

[dgalehouse]

No one's saying there isn't pressure in the ninth. You're still going to be using one of your two best relievers in the ninth. It's just that it might be the second-best one. The Guardians kind of had the perfect template when they had Miller as relief ace and Allen as closer.

 

And this is not some nerdtastic breakthrough. It's just common sense, really.

 

Bell , with Cleveland I think it was more a case of Tito not wanting to give Allen' s spot to the new guy , Miller . Miller was very willing to go along with anything . Anyway , Andrew Miller was used and abused , and became burnt out . It looks like the Brewers are looking to do the same thing to Hader .

[devildavid]

If you don't believe that there is additional pressure pitching the ninth inning , then there is not much left to say . Of course , the Dorito munching nerds in the analytics room can't be expected to understand that . I don't see the new system of using the bullpen catching on all that much . Right now , I don't know if Cora regards Barnes or Brazier as his best reliever . Maybe the nerds know . They will tell him . In nerds we trust .

 

There is no inning that carries more or less pressure. It all depends on the game situation. In a close game the ninth inning is more likely to have more pressure. Not so in a blowout. And there are different levels for anything in between. There is no universal truth of the ninth inning carrying the most pressure. That is an emotional take not based on reality.

[dgalehouse]

There is no inning that carries more or less pressure. It all depends on the game situation. In a close game the ninth inning is more likely to have more pressure. Not so in a blowout. And there are different levels for anything in between. There is no universal truth of the ninth inning carrying the most pressure. That is an emotional take not based on reality.

 

It is the emotions that create the pressure and stress . It peaks in the ninth inning. In football and basketball, it is the fourth quarter . In golf , the eighteenth hole . In pool , it is the eight ball ( or nine ball ) . In baseball, it' s the ninth inning. I think those who are involved in the games understand that . Others just don't. And that's it . Just a difference of opinion.

[devildavid]

It is the emotions that create the pressure and stress . It peaks in the ninth inning. In football and basketball, it is the fourth quarter . In golf , the eighteenth hole . In pool , it is the eight ball ( or nine ball ) . In baseball, it' s the ninth inning. I think those who are involved in the games understand that . Others just don't. And that's it . Just a difference of opinion.

 

The ninth inning is just the last inning. The stress and pressure is due to the game situation. When the home team is up 10-0 in the ninth I don't think they are too stressed.

[dgalehouse]

The ninth inning is just the last inning. The stress and pressure is due to the game situation. When the home team is up 10-0 in the ninth I don't think they are too stressed.

 

Of course not . That's why it's called a laugher . The stress comes in close games . No question.

[Bellhorn04]

There's no doubt in my mind that pitching the bottom of the 9th with a one run lead is harder on the nervous system than pitching the bottom of the 7th with a one run lead.

[Jasonbay44]

I think its about time Colton Brewer gets DFA

[notin]

There's no doubt in my mind that pitching the bottom of the 9th with a one run lead is harder on the nervous system than pitching the bottom of the 7th with a one run lead.

 

 

That all depends on the pitcher himself. Some pitchers get nervous facing the 7-8-9 hitters in the bottom of the fifth and some get amped up for those high pressure moments. And some, like Cliff Lee, just act like nothing fazes them at all...