Early Trade deadline deals the selling Sox should make

[Sthpaw777]

16 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

I have standards. Winning a WS is important. That should be the end goal. They should be working towards that, not towards a team that is endlessly fighting for a 3rd place finish (which is what they'd be doing if they continue on their current path and don't sell when able). 

I get this. Unless you make the big moveS you need this year to be a legit WS condenser, which they are not, then you sell and look to 2027. We have a horrible home record and also one against above 500 teams. That doesn’t win anything. 
we know they won’t spend to go over the next luxury tax threshold and they need a few pieces to be taken seriously. All this is providing they can jump 7-8 teams to get the final spot without making any big moves. Tall order. 
they would have to go 625+ the rest of the way to even match last year. They have a 409 winning %. You don’t fix that with one RH bat. 
if Henry can get Theo to “advise” Breslow at the deadline then we could end up with a bit of a bidding war for some of our guys. I understand we have folks who think rentals won’t get much, and I understand that to a point. But the deadline is different if it works out right. We got some important pieces that are performing. Gray and Chapman. It all depends on how important the player is to the team and how important winning a ring is to an owner/ front office.

my only worry is Breslow leading the charge. He’s a bafoon and would get fleeced.

[mvp 78]

16 hours ago, harmony said:

The Arizona Diamondbacks won only 84 regular-season games en route to a berth in the 2023 World Series:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/ARI/2023.shtml

The 2021 Atlanta Braves won the World Series after only 88 regular-season wins; the 2022 Philadelphia Phillies advanced to the World Series with only 87 victoties in the regular season.

Only one of those teams won the WS for some reason. 🤔

[mvp 78]

3 hours ago, Sthpaw777 said:

if Henry can get Theo to “advise” Breslow at the deadline then we could end up with a bit of a bidding war for some of our guys. I understand we have folks who think rentals won’t get much, and I understand that to a point. But the deadline is different if it works out right. We got some important pieces that are performing. Gray and Chapman. It all depends on how important the player is to the team and how important winning a ring is to an owner/ front office.

my only worry is Breslow leading the charge. He’s a bafoon and would get fleeced.

I guess Theo was advising Breslow, or at least in the room, during the last trade deadline. Don't know how much it helps. Maybe Breslow doesn't listen? Maybe other GM's just don't take him seriously so deals can't get over the finish line? Hard to say. It's just not working though. 

[Bellhorn04]

9 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Only one of those teams won the WS for some reason. 🤔

1 seems like a normal random result for a sample of 3.

[mvp 78]

11 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

1 seems like a normal random result for a sample of 3.

Not to me. I was talking about WS winners. I don't care about LOSERS. I want my team to win the WS, not place. I'm not out here celebrating '86 over and over again. 

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

I'm confused on the Theo thing.  Just what is his role?  He has no interest in running a team again?  That's a shame, I'm pretty confident he could right this sinking ship.  

[notin]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

Only one of those teams won the WS for some reason. 🤔

And the others got deeper into the postseason than that 2001 Seattle Mariner team that went 116-46.

I’m ok with an 86 win WS runner up…

[drewski6]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

I guess Theo was advising Breslow, or at least in the room, during the last trade deadline. Don't know how much it helps. Maybe Breslow doesn't listen? Maybe other GM's just don't take him seriously so deals can't get over the finish line? Hard to say. It's just not working though. 

Thank you for coming over to my side, in return, I will acknowledge that you were correct when you said the only player who could turn this iteration of the flops into the sox is 2003 bill mueller.  2004 bill mueller, while still very good, I dont think would be enough.

[drewski6]

47 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Not to me. I was talking about WS winners. I don't care about LOSERS. I want my team to win the WS, not place. I'm not out here celebrating '86 over and over again. 

Im telling Michelle Kwan you said this.

[mvp 78]

1 hour ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

I'm confused on the Theo thing.  Just what is his role?  He has no interest in running a team again?  That's a shame, I'm pretty confident he could right this sinking ship.  

Disinterested advisor to all of the FSG entities. 

[mvp 78]

50 minutes ago, notin said:

And the others got deeper into the postseason than that 2001 Seattle Mariner team that went 116-46.

I’m ok with an 86 win WS runner up…

Good for you. 

[mvp 78]

49 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Thank you for coming over to my side, in return, I will acknowledge that you were correct when you said the only player who could turn this iteration of the flops into the sox is 2003 bill mueller.  2004 bill mueller, while still very good, I dont think would be enough.

They are beyond Bill Mueller's help now. They'd need 04: Manny, Papi and Tek now to get them back. Manny would probably just head to WOO for the summer though.

[Sthpaw777]

3 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

I guess Theo was advising Breslow, or at least in the room, during the last trade deadline. Don't know how much it helps. Maybe Breslow doesn't listen? Maybe other GM's just don't take him seriously so deals can't get over the finish line? Hard to say. It's just not working though. 

My guess is Theo suggests things and Breslow already thinks he knows everything. I dunno. Either way you’re right…it’s NOT working. When nobody will work for this owner you have to hire asst GMs to be president of BB ops. He’s clearly in over his head with a number of things. If he was head of all pitching and development I’d be ok with it.  But this position is too much for him.

[mvp 78]

6 minutes ago, Sthpaw777 said:

My guess is Theo suggests things and Breslow already thinks he knows everything. I dunno. Either way you’re right…it’s NOT working. When nobody will work for this owner you have to hire asst GMs to be president of BB ops. He’s clearly in over his head with a number of things. If he was head of all pitching and development I’d be ok with it.  But this position is too much for him.

The theory is that they wanted to hire him to run the pitching for the org, but couldn't find a CBO so decided on giving it to him. Not sure I buy it, but it's a theory. 

[drewski6]

43 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

The theory is that they wanted to hire him to run the pitching for the org, but couldn't find a CBO so decided on giving it to him. Not sure I buy it, but it's a theory. 

My theory is that JH and Breslow bonded over their mutual inability to communicate with humans like a human and now JH sees a young JH in Breslow.  Not sure I buy it, but it's a theory.

[mvp 78]

2 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

My theory is that JH and Breslow bonded over their mutual inability to communicate with humans like a human and now JH sees a young JH in Breslow.  Not sure I buy it, but it's a theory.

Well, they really didn't like the first meeting with Breslow because of how poorly he communicated in his presentation. They made him redo the whole thing over again. 

[UtahSox]

If we sell this trade deadline….. hypothetically Crochet is healthy next year, Suarez is healthy next year, Tolle/Early/Bennett get through season healthy. And we sell the bullpen Whitlock/Chapman and maybe Duran for prospects. 
I feel like we will be in this weird limbo in the offseason when teams will know we will be desperate to improve bats. Red Sox say their willing to take on money to improve. But the free agent pool sucks. 

i don’t know why I just feel like this summer deadline is going to be the most important since 2019. 

[Old Red]

3 minutes ago, UtahSox said:

If we sell this trade deadline….. hypothetically Crochet is healthy next year, Suarez is healthy next year, Tolle/Early/Bennett get through season healthy. And we sell the bullpen Whitlock/Chapman and maybe Duran for prospects. 
I feel like we will be in this weird limbo in the offseason when teams will know we will be desperate to improve bats. Red Sox say their willing to take on money to improve. But the free agent pool sucks. 

i don’t know why I just feel like this summer deadline is going to be the most important since 2019. 

I agree, and if you sell the backend of the BP then they will have to be replaced and most likely at a higher cost.

[illinoisredsox]

3 hours ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

I'm confused on the Theo thing.  Just what is his role?  He has no interest in running a team again?  That's a shame, I'm pretty confident he could right this sinking ship.  

Would you be/would have been happy taking a demotion where you work(ed)?

[notin]

6 minutes ago, illinoisredsox said:

Would you be/would have been happy taking a demotion where you work(ed)?

If I got “demoted” to run the day-to-day operations of the Boston Red Sox?? Hell yeah!!

That said, Theo has already crossed that off his rather impressive bucket list.. 

[drewski6]

40 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Well, they really didn't like the first meeting with Breslow because of how poorly he communicated in his presentation. They made him redo the whole thing over again. 

JH: I think you are very good with numbers, but you struggle to present, relate, and sell.  Almost reminds me of myself.  You know, I like you, but you need to sell some of these other guys so lets coach up your presentation and give you another shot.  You were a little stiff.  Lets work on the stiffness for presentation v_2

But like Ive said, Breslows stiffness was more than just an impediment to getting the job, it was also an impediment to doing the job.

[mvp 78]

39 minutes ago, UtahSox said:

If we sell this trade deadline….. hypothetically Crochet is healthy next year, Suarez is healthy next year, Tolle/Early/Bennett get through season healthy. And we sell the bullpen Whitlock/Chapman and maybe Duran for prospects. 
I feel like we will be in this weird limbo in the offseason when teams will know we will be desperate to improve bats. Red Sox say their willing to take on money to improve. But the free agent pool sucks. 

i don’t know why I just feel like this summer deadline is going to be the most important since 2019. 

They sell, but are going to get prospects back. Those guys aren't going to be leading the Sox to a pennant in '27. 

[mvp 78]

27 minutes ago, illinoisredsox said:

Would you be/would have been happy taking a demotion where you work(ed)?

Not even that, would you be willing to do your job and the job of the guy below you for no additional money. Plus, the other guy's job is terrible. 

[mvp 78]

21 minutes ago, notin said:

If I got “demoted” to run the day-to-day operations of the Boston Red Sox?? Hell yeah!!

That said, Theo has already crossed that off his rather impressive bucket list.. 

Theo wants to either be in the ownership group or MLB Commissioner.

[notin]

8 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

They sell, but are going to get prospects back. Those guys aren't going to be leading the Sox to a pennant in '27. 

They should get prospects back.  It’s really difficult to get contributing major leaguers at the deadline, since any team you’re dealing with expects those players to stay and, well, contribute.  Cherington tried tjis in 2014, dealing Lester and Lackey and hetting back Allen Craig, Yoenis Cespedes and Joe Kelly.  Craig was just a bad contract that did nothing in Boston.  Cespedes was later flipped for Rick Porcello that off-season.  Only Kelly stuck around.  Selling off your two  best pitchers should have yielded much more. 

Get prospects.  Deal them in December/January when more teams will be in position to make deals with a better variety of targets…

[notin]

5 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Theo wants to either be in the ownership group or MLB Commissioner.

Or both, like Bud Selig…

[mvp 78]

6 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

JH: I think you are very good with numbers, but you struggle to present, relate, and sell.  Almost reminds me of myself.  You know, I like you, but you need to sell some of these other guys so lets coach up your presentation and give you another shot.  You were a little stiff.  Lets work on the stiffness for presentation v_2

But like Ive said, Breslows stiffness was more than just an impediment to getting the job, it was also an impediment to doing the job.

From his first press conference:

https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2023/11/mlb-notebook-craig-breslow-has-bigger-worries-than-winning-press-conference-mcadam.html

The reactions, too, were varied. For some, Breslow was “energized,” and “confident.” Some were wowed by his enthusiasm and assuredness. Others complained that he was too vague, spoke in generalities or — and this was a common one — complained that he sounded too much like a “nerd.” Seems there were a few too many uses of “synthesized” for some people’s tastes.

On Thursday, “another nerd” was the phrase of the day. That, and mocking principal owner John Henry’s tardy and silent presence at his own team’s event.

Ultimately, Breslow will be judged not by his managerial style, but by the results. Can he make the Red Sox consistent contenders again? Can he get them to a point where an off-year results in 84 wins, not 72? Can he bring his Pitching Whisperer skills to the minor league system and end the 15-year drought the team has weathered when it comes to developing homegrown starting pitchers?

Can he attract big-name talent? Can he make the Red Sox a destination point for free agents? Can he identify talent? Can he scout his team’s own minor league system and determine which prospects can play and which can be dealt to acquire help for the major league roster?

Those are the real tests, the real basis upon which he’ll be evaluated.

[mvp 78]

2 minutes ago, notin said:

They should get prospects back.  It’s really difficult to get contributing major leaguers at the deadline, since any team you’re dealing with expects those players to stay and, well, contribute.  Cherington tried tjis in 2014, dealing Lester and Lackey and hetting back Allen Craig, Yoenis Cespedes and Joe Kelly.  Craig was just a bad contract that did nothing in Boston.  Cespedes was later flipped for Rick Porcello that off-season.  Only Kelly stuck around.  Selling off your two  best pitchers should have yielded much more. 

Get prospects.  Deal them in December/January when more teams will be in position to make deals with a better variety of targets…

Then you get to lose the deadline because you traded for nobodies and lose the next season because you traded those same "great young players" for nothing. 🤔

[mvp 78]

3 minutes ago, notin said:

Or both, like Bud Selig…

HOFer Bud Selig

[drewski6]

37 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Then you get to lose the deadline because you traded for nobodies and lose the next season because you traded those same "great young players" for nothing. 🤔

A lot would depend on how you go about trading those prospects.  If you pick a position, lets say 3rd base and are hyper focused on "true 3rd baseman" (defensively) who are attainable, enjoy a universe of 3 people, 2 of which cant hit.  If you focus on aging pitchers but we'll get the trading team to eat some money to make them affordable (Sonny Gray part deux) - then enjoy hearing we've seen this movie before.

But if you go after hitters and be willing to make downstream moves or move guys around, we may then be doing something different and have no reason to believe that we would be getting the same results