Red Sox 2025 Season Review/Offseason Preview Thread

[Old Red]

9 minutes ago, Hitch said:

You're never going to change their minds. They're locked in for life. 

You may as well go and argue with flat earthers. 

It’s amazes some people that you can take the same set of circumstances, and not everyone sees it the same way, and forms different opinions on what they see. 

[mvp 78]

13 minutes ago, Hitch said:

You're never going to change their minds. They're locked in for life. 

You may as well go and argue with flat earthers. 

I just don't happen to take everything the FO says as the end all be all. There are multiple sides to every story. Not sure that makes me a flat earther though. If you need to see the world in black and white, you do you I guess. If I find evidence that Raffy was a bad teammate aside from "he wore headphones" I'll listen to it. 

"Nobody pitched a fit when he left so he must have been a bad teammate!!!" 😎

[Old Red]

2 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I just don't happen to take everything the FO says as the end all be all. There are multiple sides to every story. Not sure that makes me a flat earther though. If you need to see the world in black and white, you do you I guess. If I find evidence that Raffy was a bad teammate aside from "he wore headphones" I'll listen to it. 

"Nobody pitched a fit when he left so he must have been a bad teammate!!!" 😎

There are so many different instances to this saga, and that’s just of what we heard. I’m sure there was a lot more.

[Hitch]

Here they come, defensive, and ready to burn the world down! Relax fellas I was just needling you. 

Though, I don't know ANYONE that sees it as black and white as it being only Devers fault and that's that. So you can set fire to the strawman instead if you like.

[Old Red]

1 minute ago, Hitch said:

Here they come, defensive, and ready to burn the world down! Relax fellas I was just needling you. 

Though, I don't know ANYONE that sees it as black and white as it being only Devers fault and that's that. So you can set fire to the strawman instead if you like.

The thing is to me though is that it didn’t have to be anyone’s fault.

[Hitch]

2 minutes ago, Old Red said:

The thing is to me though is that it didn’t have to be anyone’s fault.

We can agree there. Cora and the FO should have done a MUCH better job. After that, it's petulance of the highest order and throwing teammates under the bus. I blame both. I just hate Devers' actions. Hate them. 

[mvp 78]

7 minutes ago, Hitch said:

Here they come, defensive, and ready to burn the world down! Relax fellas I was just needling you. 

Though, I don't know ANYONE that sees it as black and white as it being only Devers fault and that's that. So you can set fire to the strawman instead if you like.

Strawman? You compared my argument to a flat earther. Feel free to back pedal all you want.

I guess this amounts to burning the world down somehow. I would like a nice fire though. Just one small one in my office. It's really cold in here. 

[Old Red]

1 minute ago, Hitch said:

We can agree there. Cora and the FO should have done a MUCH better job. After that, it's petulance of the highest order and throwing teammates under the bus. I blame both. I just hate Devers' actions. Hate them. 

And all for a one, and done.

[Hugh2]

24 minutes ago, Hitch said:

You're never going to change their minds. They're locked in for life. 

You may as well go and argue with flat earthers. 

I think people just like Raffy and admitting he was wrong or being a bad teammate by not moving over is a threat towards their feelings about him.

its not.

it can both be true that he was a good player and you can like him and STILL have issue with him not doing what was easily and obviously best for the team when Casas went down.

its ok. We dont have to live in a world of absolutes.  Only Sith Lords deal in absolutes 

[Hugh2]

It’s also not a zero sum game.  It can both be true that management mishandled the Raffy situation in the offseason and he was a bad teammate for not moving over and putting himself first.

again.  Absolutes…don’t be a sith

[JoeBrady]

18 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

It’s also not a zero sum game.  It can both be true that management mishandled the Raffy situation in the offseason and he was a bad teammate for not moving over and putting himself first.

again.  Absolutes…don’t be a sith

I'm an agnostic on Devers.  But this is the same as in the political world.  People on both sides dig their heels in, and will never ever change their minds.

[Old Red]

30 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I think people just like Raffy and admitting he was wrong or being a bad teammate by not moving over is a threat towards their feelings about him.

its not.

it can both be true that he was a good player and you can like him and STILL have issue with him not doing what was easily and obviously best for the team when Casas went down.

its ok. We dont have to live in a world of absolutes.  Only Sith Lords deal in absolutes 

I can’t speak for others, but for me who was never a Devers Forevers guy, or a big fan of Cora that speaks for itself. I just think what was BEST for the team was Raffy being the best DH he could be, and I won’t go so far as to say obviously.

[Hugh2]

18 minutes ago, Old Red said:

I can’t speak for others, but for me who was never a Devers Forevers guy, or a big fan of Cora that speaks for itself. I just think what was BEST for the team was Raffy being the best DH he could be, and I won’t go so far as to say obviously.

I agree, up until Casas was hurt.

because Devers not moving over.  That meant Toro as our first baseman.  
 

that was obviously NOT the best lineup

[Hugh2]

27 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

I'm an agnostic on Devers.  But this is the same as in the political world.  People on both sides dig their heels in, and will never ever change their minds.

I say this as someone who is 100000x more of a fan of Raffy than John Henry.  
 

he was not a good teammate by refusing to pick up a first baseman’s glove.

 

its not like it was unsolicited, CaSAs went down with a horrible injury.  To me that’s the difference 

[Bellhorn04]

1 hour ago, Old Red said:

Why do you think Cora was just trying to make everyone happy instead of just thinking Raffy at 1B was a bad idea?He had settled in quite nicely at DH, after a record breaking disastrous start.

We can go over this forever of course.  When Casas got injured that threw a monkey wrench into everything.  Maybe Breslow should not have gotten involved like he did.  But as I said I think Devers handled himself very poorly with his public comments disparaging Breslow.  It seemed like Raffy thought he was bigger than the team.   

[mvp 78]

57 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

It’s also not a zero sum game.  It can both be true that management mishandled the Raffy situation in the offseason and he was a bad teammate for not moving over and putting himself first.

again.  Absolutes…don’t be a sith

I don't think he was a bad teammate. I think they should have had him move to 1b in ST. If they had that convo and gave him time to workout in the Spring, it would have been fine IMO. We'll never truly know though. 

Sox have a history of bad mouthing people as they are on the way out the door. They really didn't have much ammunition for Raffy. If he was such a bad teammate, there would have been a lot more to say. 

All I know is that the lineup is much weaker without him. If they had Anthony AND Devers, we'd be a lot less concerned about what is going on right now. 

[mvp 78]

Anyway, I don't want to rehash it further because we're all pretty entrenched into our positions. 

[Old Red]

7 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I agree, up until Casas was hurt.

because Devers not moving over.  That meant Toro as our first baseman.  
 

that was obviously NOT the best lineup

Cora said he was fine with the 1B situation, so  who you are really arguing with is Cora. You can blame Raffy all you want, and call him all the names you want to, but Cora did not only not put Raffy at 1B, but said he wasn’t even to talk with him about it. What may have seemed like the best lineup to you obviously didn’t seem like the best lineup to Cora. Cora to me is the key in all of this, and not Raffy.

[Old Red]

4 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

We can go over this forever of course.  When Casas got injured that threw a monkey wrench into everything.  Maybe Breslow should not have gotten involved like he did.  But as I said I think Devers handled himself very poorly with his public comments disparaging Breslow.  It seemed like Raffy thought he was bigger than the team.   

I get what you are saying, but just not to the extent. As I’ve said from the beginning if Cora had told Raffy to go to 1B, and he didn’t I would have a whole different opinion on all of this, but he didn’t, so I’m going by what Cora said, and what he did, or didn’t do.

[Hugh2]

10 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Cora said he was fine with the 1B situation, so  who you are really arguing with is Cora. You can blame Raffy all you want, and call him all the names you want to, but Cora did not only not put Raffy at 1B, but said he wasn’t even to talk with him about it. What may have seemed like the best lineup to you obviously didn’t seem like the best lineup to Cora. Cora to me is the key in all of this, and not Raffy.

 

12 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I don't think he was a bad teammate. I think they should have had him move to 1b in ST. If they had that convo and gave him time to workout in the Spring, it would have been fine IMO. We'll never truly know though. 

Sox have a history of bad mouthing people as they are on the way out the door. They really didn't have much ammunition for Raffy. If he was such a bad teammate, there would have been a lot more to say. 

All I know is that the lineup is much weaker without him. If they had Anthony AND Devers, we'd be a lot less concerned about what is going on right now. 

I can state my opinion and say we should be done with it too. 
 

the narrative that it was Cora is bull.  Devers was asked about it and was obviously annoyed suggesting “what are the going to do ask me to pitch next” which was obviously absurd and uncalled for.

i don’t buy the whole spring training narrative.  I firmly believe that the vast majority of teams, if not every single one of faced with a first baseman blowing out his knee, zero depth at 1b, plenty of other options in the OF would of asked their star hitter who most had pegged for a first baseman to switch over to first.

maybe it doesn’t stick, maybe he’s no good there, but in the absence of a player throwing a hissy fit.  Every team would have made that decision.

Nobody wants Toro as their everyday first baseman.

look we all got opinions. Y’all wanna say Raffy wasn’t a baby for not moving that’s fine, that’s your opinion.  But denying it wasn’t the logical baseball move that any team would have made is absurd.

[Old Red]

8 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I don't think he was a bad teammate. I think they should have had him move to 1b in ST. If they had that convo and gave him time to workout in the Spring, it would have been fine IMO. We'll never truly know though. 

Sox have a history of bad mouthing people as they are on the way out the door. They really didn't have much ammunition for Raffy. If he was such a bad teammate, there would have been a lot more to say. 

All I know is that the lineup is much weaker without him. If they had Anthony AND Devers, we'd be a lot less concerned about what is going on right now. 

Well said, and that much weaker lineup could have used Raffy in the past postseason against the Yankees.You won’t get that opportunity, or series back.

[Hugh2]

3 minutes ago, Old Red said:

I get what you are saying, but just not to the extent. As I’ve said from the beginning if Cora had told Raffy to go to 1B, and he didn’t I would have a whole different opinion on all of this, but he didn’t, so I’m going by what Cora said, and what he did, or didn’t do.

You know Cora was taking the fall for Raffy,  he’s not going to publicly say “ yeah I asked him and he refused”

they’d literally trade a guy before admitting that

[Old Red]

3 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

 

I can state my opinion and say we should be done with it too. 
 

the narrative that it was Cora is bull.  Devers was asked about it and was obviously annoyed suggesting “what are the going to do ask me to pitch next” which was obviously absurd and uncalled for.

i don’t buy the whole spring training narrative.  I firmly believe that the vast majority of teams, if not every single one of faced with a first baseman blowing out his knee, zero depth at 1b, plenty of other options in the OF wouldn’t of asked their star hitter who most had pegged for a first baseman to switch over to first.

maybe it doesn’t stick, maybe he’s no good there, but in the absence of a player throwing a hissy fit.  Every team would have made that decision.

Nobody wants Toro as their everyday first baseman.

look we all got opinions. Y’all wanna say Raffy wasn’t a baby for not moving that’s fine, that’s your opinion.  But denying it wasn’t the logical baseball move that any team would have made is absurd.

The Red Sox had a problem at 1B for the past 2-3 years, and that’s why Franchy was put there, so this past year was NO different.

[Hugh2]

Just now, Old Red said:

The Red Sox had a problem at 1B for the past 2-3 years, and that’s why Franchy was put there, so this past year was NO different.

Your starting first baseman blew out his ACL in the middle of the season.  That’s blatantly different 

[Old Red]

4 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

You know Cora was taking the fall for Raffy,  he’s not going to publicly say “ yeah I asked him and he refused”

they’d literally trade a guy before admitting that

That Cora said he hadn’t spoken to Raffy, and wasn’t going to is a FACT. Saying Cora was taking the fall for Raffy is your opinion, and obviously nothing more than speculation.

[Old Red]

1 minute ago, Hugh2 said:

Your starting first baseman blew out his ACL in the middle of the season.  That’s blatantly different 

Did Casas break his rib during the season? That’s the same.🤭

[Hugh2]

3 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Did Casas break his rib during the season? That’s the same.🤭

Different Season, Devers was the 3B then.  They didn’t have to rely on Toro in the middle of a playoff run then

[Hugh2]

5 minutes ago, Old Red said:

That Cora said he hadn’t spoken to Raffy, and wasn’t going to is a FACT. Saying Cora was taking the fall for Raffy is your opinion, and obviously nothing more than speculation.

Riiiiiiigt, so Raffy is just randomly a dick to the media then

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, Old Red said:

Cora said they were fine at 1B. Are you trying to count Masa who was shipped off in exile somewhere, and wouldn’t even let him bat at WOO under the ruse he was working on his arm. If you don’t think going to a new team isn’t a much different situation then no further discussion.

It wasn't a whole new situation in terms of where each of the two teams had the biggest need: 1B.

We went out and got Nate Lowe, so thinking Cora was fine with Toro at 1B may be true, but that doesn't mean we had no need there.

[Hugh2]

So if Raffy wasn’t asked to move to 1B then he was traded because he was mean to reporters?