Article: BREAKING: Rafael Devers Traded To San Francisco Giants

[moonslav59]

3 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Ummm….NO. Breslows job is to be the GM. He doesn’t need the permission of the players to make roster moves. The players job is to do what they’re told to do. If that means playing 1B then that’s what they have to do. They don’t have to like it. 

Shouldn't a GM be able to get his manager to even ask/tell the player to play where he should be playing?

[Maxbialystock]

57 minutes ago, redsoxrules said:

Why trade if you're getting garbage in return? Wow, they got nothing for him. Like wtf

Exactly the way I see it.  Not a trade but a dumping of Devers salary and disgruntlement.  

I have backed Devers relentlessly this season, but have also agreed he's being paid an awful lot to be the DH.  

Season to date, by far the two best Sox bats have been Bregman and Devers. 

Coming at a time when the Sox have gone 8-2 in their last 10 games and climbed back above .500, the message here seems to be:  forget this season and keep cheering for our three rookies.  They are the future.  In addition, Devers salary/contract will be put to use in acquiring more pitching or whatever.  

 

[mvp 78]

6 minutes ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

This trade reminds me of the Nomar trade in '04.

They got good players back that time.

[notin]

12 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

The reason the relationship soured was all on Breslow anyway. 
 

Fire Breslow.

And not on the guy who effectively said “if I can’t play where I want to play, I’m not going to play anywhere”?

Or the manager who agreed?

[Nick]

3 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

People talk about how a new manager can shake up a clubhouse. This has to do some serious shaking- for good or bad.

Everybody will be doing a self-check after this doozy.

Few thoughts.

Devers has set bad example for our young players. He sits by himself. Compare that to Bregman. Our rookies look up to Bregman, not Devers.

San Francisco is well under cap space even without getting relief of Hicks' salaries.

Hicks is NOT our main target. It's Harrison. He is under team control for five years, including this year.

The high A OF prospect is going to take time to make his journey to the MLB, if he even makes it.

This trade may allow more at bats for Refsnyder. 

A guy like Gonzalez and Toro can also get at bats.

Bregman I think will easily cover for Devers bat.

We want to see our young guys play, or at least stay up in the majors.

My guess is when Anthony was promoted, it was with the thought that he's up in majors to stay. No way in hell he was going back down to AAA.

I repeat, I like that the organization is really prioritizing pitching. You need good pitching staff to win the World Series.

We'll scratch enough runs. We always do. We're just about #2 in every offensive category behind the Yankees.

Pitching, pitching, pitching.

[mvp 78]

2 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Shouldn't a GM be able to get his manager to even ask/tell the player to play where he should be playing?

Bad communication from Sox to Devers. Pathetic.

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, notin said:

And not on the guy who effectively said “if I can’t play where I want to play, I’m not going to play anywhere”?

Or the manager who agreed?

That’s not what he said though. 

[notin]

1 minute ago, Maxbialystock said:

Exactly the way I see it.  Not a trade but a dumping of Devers salary and disgruntlement.  

I have backed Devers relentlessly this season, but have also agreed he's being paid an awful lot to be the DH.  

Season to date, by far the two best Sox bats have been Bregman and Devers. 

Coming at a time when the Sox have gone 8-2 in their last 10 games and climbed back above .500, the message here seems to be:  forget this season and keep cheering for our three rookies.  They are the future.  In addition, Devers salary/contract will be put to use in acquiring more pitching or whatever.  

 

The timing could not have been worse here.  Sweep the Yankees, climb over .500, get back in the race.  And then unload the superstar hitter…

[Maxbialystock]

2 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Shouldn't a GM be able to get his manager to even ask/tell the player to play where he should be playing?

To what end?  Devers didn't like being displaced from a position he had played for 8 years, but Cora got him to embrace DH, where he did pretty well.

Meanwhile, the loss of Casas was a net positive because Toro and Gonzalez are both better.  There was absolutely no need to move Devers to 1b.  Did I forget to mention that Devers would probably have committed more errors, both mental and physical, than he ever did at 3b?  

[mvp 78]

2 minutes ago, Nick said:

Few thoughts.

Devers has set bad example for our young players. He sits by himself. Compare that to Bregman. Our rookies look up to Bregman, not Devers.

San Francisco is well under cap space even without getting relief of Hicks' salaries.

Hicks is NOT our main target. It's Harrison. He is under team control for five years, including this year.

The high A OF prospect is going to take time to make his journey to the MLB, if he even makes it.

This trade may allow more at bats for Refsnyder. 

A guy like Gonzalez and Toro can also get at bats.

Bregman I think will easily cover for Devers bat.

We want to see our young guys play, or at least stay up in the majors.

My guess is when Anthony was promoted, it was with the thought that he's up in majors to stay. No way in hell he was going back down to AAA.

I repeat, I like that the organization is really prioritizing pitching. You need good pitching staff to win the World Series.

We'll scratch enough runs. We always do. We're just about #2 in every offensive category behind the Yankees.

Pitching, pitching, pitching.

Bregman covers Raffy’s bat? Does he get to hit twice in the order now?

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, notin said:

The timing could not have been worse here.  Sweep the Yankees, climb over .500, get back in the race.  And then unload the superstar hitter…

Wild

[oldtimer]

35 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

He's gaining weight?

Before the DH and 1B issues, was he an attitude issue? 

The guy has been our best hitter for a long time. He's been a Yankee killer and RBI machine for years.

Until the injury, last August, he was on pace for a career high in OPS and was pretty close, this year, too.

The FT DH thing is valid.

The $30M a year thing, into his mid to later 30's, too.

The unwillingness to play 1B has been beaten to death, and apparently Cora never asked him to do it, but I do agree that no DH is worth $30M a year. Add inflation adjustments and Papi never made near that.

All I can say is that JH better spend teh savings, or we are right back to square one with him, again. This cancels out the Bregman signing, financially.

Yes, we have to look at the positives and  negatives.

On the positive side, Devers is currently a very productive hitter who has great hand-eye coordination. But as a DH that's what he brings and I don't believe he has ever been a leader in the clubhouse. 

On the negative side, he is getting $30 mil/year to be a DH. He is on a long term contract and he swings at a lot of balls out of the zone. My question is what happens when his natural talents are eroded with age.

Clearly there has been friction between Devers and the front office. Has that become a distraction in the clubhouse?

I am surprised by the trade but not shocked by it. The Sox appear to be rebuilding around some really talented players, some already in the majors and some knocking on the door. Perhaps Devers didn't fit well enough on a long term basis.

[Nick]

Just now, mvp 78 said:

Bregman covers Raffy’s bat? Does he get to hit twice in the order now?

I meant Bregman is not playing right now so yeah, when he gets back he'll  take over for Devers.

As an example, now that Devers is gone, Narvarez can DH like today, a day game after a night game.

Maybe Yoshida comes into play.

I think Devers boxed himself in when he refused to play any other position.

I was really hoping he get traded to Pittsburgh or Detroit. But this trade didn't cost us any young talent.

[Nick]

Shades of Tampa Bay Rays, with more money? 

I do think Duran is on the trading block.

San Diego?

Hell we can unload all of our star players to NL West. We'll only have to face one team in the World Series. 

[FredLynn]

13 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Shouldn't a GM be able to get his manager to even ask/tell the player to play where he should be playing?

Absolutely! Breslow should have TOLD Cora that the discussion must happen no matter how uncomfortable it might be. If he refused he should be fired. If Devers then refused to play where he was told to play he sits or gets traded. 
Chain of command…..

[Maxbialystock]

3 minutes ago, notin said:

And not on the guy who effectively said “if I can’t play where I want to play, I’m not going to play anywhere”?

Or the manager who agreed?

Before the season started Devers had to accept losing 3b, which he loved playing and had played for 8 seasons.  Bregman was simply better.  So Cora convinced Devers to embrace DH, which he in fact did and became the 2d best bat on the team and at one point at the most rbi's in MLB.  

It was after all that happened that Breslow got the idea that, with Casas out, the team's second best bat had to be moved yet again, this time to a position he had never played.   To me that was just dumb because what we have in fact seen is that Toro and Gonzalez are way better then Casas was when he was hurt.  To make matters worse, Breslow went public with Devers refusal and even got the owner involved.   Now it was a huge deal that garnered headlines everywhere.  Devers was a bum, a quitter, a problem.  I disagree with that characterization, but Breslow made it a big deal, so of course Devers had to go.

Now that the deal is done, I think the Sox will hurt with their two best bats out, but agree  Devers' salary can now be applied to other needs.  

 

[FredLynn]

15 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

Exactly the way I see it.  Not a trade but a dumping of Devers salary and disgruntlement.  

I have backed Devers relentlessly this season, but have also agreed he's being paid an awful lot to be the DH.  

Season to date, by far the two best Sox bats have been Bregman and Devers. 

Coming at a time when the Sox have gone 8-2 in their last 10 games and climbed back above .500, the message here seems to be:  forget this season and keep cheering for our three rookies.  They are the future.  In addition, Devers salary/contract will be put to use in acquiring more pitching or whatever.  

 

The message to the players is this: it’s a team sport and your job is to do what’s best for the TEAM as determined by management. “Me first” isn’t going to be tolerated.

[Nick]

Will Harrison go back to the pen?

[mvp 78]

The return is what gets Breslow fired.

[Maxbialystock]

15 minutes ago, notin said:

The timing could not have been worse here.  Sweep the Yankees, climb over .500, get back in the race.  And then unload the superstar hitter…

I'm not sure about superstar, but agree his was our 2d best bat after Bregman, who will be out until July.  

I agree with how the team has been playing recently--this is very bad timing.  On the other hand, that big salary could be applied to a bigger need--better pitching.  

[Randy Red Sox]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

Harrison was a top 25 prospect, last year. Maybe we think he can be the next Crochet.

While Devers has enormous value, he value per dollar spent is in negative territory, according to BTV. The age old question will be: does JH pocket the money, most of the money or repurpose it to boost us in an area we need more than a FT DH.

Maybe Bregman can return earlier as a DH. Maybe we still have faith in a Yoshida return.

Maybe this was made to free up the OF logjam, once Abreu returns.

Is the downgrade from Devers to Duran at DH and Anthony in LF vs Duran more than the plus we get in the rotation and farm?

Inquiring minds want to know.

yoshida will likely become the DH and Henry will allow Breslow to acquire a couple of BBB'S

[Deja Doh]

That's a crazy trade.  We didn't shop him after the Giant inquired?  

[Randy Red Sox]

Just now, Maxbialystock said:

I'm not sure about superstar, but agree his was our 2d best bat after Bregman, who will be out until July.  

I agree with how the team has been playing recently--this is very bad timing.  On the other hand, that big salary could be applied to a bigger need--better pitching.  

or more likely to one of Henry's other projects.  salary dump and nothing more

[Maxbialystock]

3 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

The message to the players is this: it’s a team sport and your job is to do what’s best for the TEAM as determined by management. “Me first” isn’t going to be tolerated.

I would agree if in fact it was best for the team.  But it absolutely was not.  Toro and Gonzalez have been excellent at 1band way better than Casas was.  His injury was a blessing for the team.  Meanwhil, Devers was having a career year at the plate as DH.  That's why Breslow couldn't convince Cora to tell Devers he should play 1b.  

You guys are falling for this "best for the team" crap because Breslow went public with it and even got JH involved.  

[mvp 78]

“Trading Mookie allows us to keep Xander and Raffy!”

☠️

[FredLynn]

2 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

I would agree if in fact it was best for the team.  But it absolutely was not.  Toro and Gonzalez have been excellent at 1band way better than Casas was.  His injury was a blessing for the team.  Meanwhil, Devers was having a career year at the plate as DH.  That's why Breslow couldn't convince Cora to tell Devers he should play 1b.  

You guys are falling for this "best for the team" crap because Breslow went public with it and even got JH involved.  

Casas got off to a slow start but I believe he would have come around. Toro and Gonzales have been great-but I doubt they can sustain this pace, not that I wouldn't love that.

No, you cannot have a player making decisions about where he will or will not play, no matter who he is. That is the tail wagging the dog. This would have leaked out anyway, regardless of whether or not Breslow went public-because it was the obvious move after Casas got hurt. 

Its a TEAM sport. There's no "I" in TEAM.

[jad]

Because trading away star players (Ruth, Betts) has always worked out so well.  F*CK this team.  I've followed this guy since he played AA in Portland.   And I've been a fan of the RS since the early 50s.  I hope the SOX  lose every game for the rest of the season.   I'm just glad for Rafy that he  got away from this mess and its duplicitous administrative ways.

[Duran Is The Man]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

He's gaining weight?

Before the DH and 1B issues, was he an attitude issue? 

The guy has been our best hitter for a long time. He's been a Yankee killer and RBI machine for years.

Until the injury, last August, he was on pace for a career high in OPS and was pretty close, this year, too.

The FT DH thing is valid.

The $30M a year thing, into his mid to later 30's, too.

The unwillingness to play 1B has been beaten to death, and apparently Cora never asked him to do it, but I do agree that no DH is worth $30M a year. Add inflation adjustments and Papi never made near that.

All I can say is that JH better spend teh savings, or we are right back to square one with him, again. This cancels out the Bregman signing, financially.

if so, then Cora is a worse manager than i thought. Raffy has been awful at third for years. Cora should have had him working out at 1B -at least in spring training- years ago. 

as far as the trade....i'm not pissed he was traded. he was a selfish POS and i don't blame the Sox for trading him. however, they got absolutely f***ed in the trade. they got f***ed in the Mookie trade. they got f***ed in the Sale trade. they have literally traded 3 future hall of famers for a steaming pile of s***.

[jad]

19 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

The message to the players is this: it’s a team sport and your job is to do what’s best for the TEAM as determined by management. “Me first” isn’t going to be tolerated.

Yeah, just like the bosses in other industries, right?  How dare employees suggest they have any rights?

[moonslav59]

28 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

Yes, we have to look at the positives and  negatives.

On the positive side, Devers is currently a very productive hitter who has great hand-eye coordination. But as a DH that's what he brings and I don't believe he has ever been a leader in the clubhouse. 

On the negative side, he is getting $30 mil/year to be a DH. He is on a long term contract and he swings at a lot of balls out of the zone. My question is what happens when his natural talents are eroded with age.

Clearly there has been friction between Devers and the front office. Has that become a distraction in the clubhouse?

I am surprised by the trade but not shocked by it. The Sox appear to be rebuilding around some really talented players, some already in the majors and some knocking on the door. Perhaps Devers didn't fit well enough on a long term basis.

As always, very well said, oldtimer. You said it all. I can't disagree with a single word.

I'm sure this trade will go on to be discussed as much or more than the Betts trade, but I'm not sure much more can be added.