Article: BREAKING: Rafael Devers Traded To San Francisco Giants

[Nick]

"As things currently stand, it’s not an impressive turn. But given the youth of the players Boston received, it will be a few years until we know how the Red Sox truly made out in the deal."

The deal was all about getting rid of Devers. Everything else is secondary. The organization is happy to get rid of $240M left on his contract and from THEIR perspective, a malcontent. They didn't want him around young players. If any of the trade pieces work out well, then it's cherry on the top.

[Hitch]

Grades from The Athletic boys.

 

Andy McCullough

Giants: C

Red Sox: B

 

Dennis Lin

Giants: A-

Red Sox: C-

 

Tim Britton

Giants: B

Red Sox: B-

 

Eno Sarris

Giants: B+

Red Sox: C+

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

12 minutes ago, Hitch said:

I think the biggest harm of this could come from a continuation of what we've seen of people being wary of signing with the Sox. From FO leaders to players. 

When you signal too often that you're willing to send on the very best players you have, you stop being an attractive option to people wanting to win.

You think it increases the chance that bregman opts out if they don't trade him first?

[dannycater]

11 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

This tends to suggest that Devers not running out that ground ball did not go over well.

Yaz didn't run out balls sometimes at Devers age...he would have been traded in 1970 to 1972 had the current regime been in charge.

[Nick]

9 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

We can totally agree on that last line, Max.

I've been talking about letting Devers try 1B for over 3 years.

We screwed it with Betts. We chose the wrong time to extend and to dump Sale.

We got lucky the comp pick for Bogey was a good one, but we blew that one, too.

I saw no sign that Devers was ever an attitude issue, until this spring. Brez/Cora blew it, but Devers is supposed to do as asked, especially when it was obviously for the betterment of the team. It's not like we asked him to play CF or moved him off 3B so Toto could play there.

You gotta admit, Cora did everything he could to shield him from more issues by forcing him to play 1B. For what? So, he could pout and dogg it, anyway?

The whole team saw what Devers did to Cora, them and the fans.

Would the team be better off firing Cora, Brez and letting the kids learn from the Devers example, going forward?

Please give an honest answer to this question.

We got here partly with the ill fated signings of Yoshida and Story on the heels of Betts/Xander departures. A cover your ass signings from my perspective.

What I want from this organization is clear path to building a winning organization. I believe Bres was hired just to do that. 

We're going to build a team around Anthony, Mayer, Campbell, Rafaela, Abreu and now Narvarez along with superior pitching. All work in progress. 

We continue to add depth at starting pitching position. We also know the preference of Brez to have DH spot open for flexibility.

I can already see getting more bats for Gonzalez, Refsnyder and Navarez when not playing out on the field.

For me the real test is will we actively seek out 2nd ace to go along with Crochet while at the same time developing young starting talent, a la Dobbins and now Kyle Harrison. 

Having a strong starting rotation and bullpen in my opinion trumps over hitting before pitching/defense approach.

 

 

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

I clearly remember after Betts was traded reading post after post here saying this was the smart move not to tie so much money into one player, they had no choice but to pass on a big deal for Mookie for the future ability to complete a roster.  Those same posters years later are critical of the trade and of course the return.

This feels the same.  You don't trade one of the better hitters in Red Sox history.  If you pro-rate his 2020 season to 150 games played he has averaged 106 RBIs a season for his career, including the first season when he barely played, and is currently at 58 RBIs through 73 games.  His career OPS is .858.

He was sold every single year and the lineup went from questionable to downright pathetic.  

f*** the Red Sox.  I know he was a pain in the ass but you just don't replace that sort of production with rookies who haven't done a damned thing at the MLB level.  

[dannycater]

Just now, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

You think it increases the chance that bregman opts out if they don't trade him first?

He won't be the last opt out either..free agents will opt out of considering the Sox as a potental location...nah, they will sign for millions and millions no matter where that location is--but I wouldn't come to Sox if I wanted to win 2025 or 2026.

[Hitch]

1 minute ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

You think it increases the chance that bregman opts out if they don't trade him first?

I think it likely comes down to performance, both personal and the team. If he he continues hitting the way he did pre-injury I think he probably opts out anyway. But if he does okay and the team sells off further or just tailspins, I think that would do it, too.

[Nick]

1 minute ago, Hitch said:

I think it likely comes down to performance, both personal and the team. If he he continues hitting the way he did pre-injury I think he probably opts out anyway. But if he does okay and the team sells off further or just tailspins, I think that would do it, too.

Production matters to Bregman and Fenway Park affords him to succeed more than say in San Francisco.

Houston and Boston fit him to a tee. 

[dannycater]

11 hours ago, Maxbialystock said:

I thought the Nomar issues were about money.  

The entire Nomar issue was range...that was it...he didn't have the range anymore, the Sox felt they needed a defensive-strong SS and then they got him in Cabrera. I was upset when it happened, but that was Theo--and that guy seemed to often push the right buttons. He was ahead of the curve pre-season of 2004 and during.

[mvp 78]

1 hour ago, jgar658 said:

When Nomar was traded in 2004 the Red Sox won the World Series.  You never know

When Nomar was traded THEY GOT REAL PLAYERS BACK.

[mvp 78]

51 minutes ago, notin said:

Im hearing stories Devers asked to be traded…

I'm hearing that he didn't...

[mvp 78]

36 minutes ago, Hitch said:

MassLive.com’s Chris Cotillo followed up and said he didn’t request a trade out of Boston.

"A source with knowledge of the Red Sox-Rafael Devers relationship described it tonight as 'an unsalvageable situation for both parties.' Devers was frustrated with mixed messaging from 'different voices' in the organization," Cotillo said. "Felt like a scapegoat. The root was what the player felt was disorganized communication from the jump this year.

"As we reported, it never got to the point where he *demanded* a trade. That doesn’t mean he didn’t welcome one. Conversations took place over months."

Yeah, he got mixed messaging. THE STAR PLAYER OF THE TEAM WAS GIVEN MIXED MESSAGING. Fire Breslow for being inept. They've punted on the season, but some posters are happy about it because a player who didn't smile enough was traded.

[mvp 78]

18 minutes ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

I clearly remember after Betts was traded reading post after post here saying this was the smart move not to tie so much money into one player, they had no choice but to pass on a big deal for Mookie for the future ability to complete a roster.  Those same posters years later are critical of the trade and of course the return.

This feels the same.  You don't trade one of the better hitters in Red Sox history.  If you pro-rate his 2020 season to 150 games played he has averaged 106 RBIs a season for his career, including the first season when he barely played, and is currently at 58 RBIs through 73 games.  His career OPS is .858.

He was sold every single year and the lineup went from questionable to downright pathetic.  

f*** the Red Sox.  I know he was a pain in the ass but you just don't replace that sort of production with rookies who haven't done a damned thing at the MLB level.  

They are actively making the team worse, but some people are lapping it up. I don't get it. 

[Hitch]

Just now, mvp 78 said:

Yeah, he got mixed messaging. THE STAR PLAYER OF THE TEAM WAS GIVEN MIXED MESSAGING. Fire Breslow for being inept. They've punted on the season, but some posters are happy about it because a player who didn't smile enough was traded.

As I mentioned on the last page, there's plenty of blame to go around on this one (as in Devers past 3 months). The smile thing was a crazy point, but Devers was out of order with some of his behaviour, too. 

Just a sad situation, and annoying it couldn't be fixed. 

[mvp 78]

 

[Bellhorn04]

46 minutes ago, Hitch said:

"As we reported, it never got to the point where he *demanded* a trade. That doesn’t mean he didn’t welcome one. Conversations took place over months."

Now this sounds like the truth.  

[mvp 78]

The last question Raffy was asked as a Red Sox:

"Do you think all the distractions are behind you?"

"Yes, that's past us." 

[notin]

9 hours ago, Maxbialystock said:

OK, DH didn't make him better, but it sure helped that as the DH he never missed a game.  

I doubt that Cora promised anything, but I'm sure he told a distraught Devers to embrace the DH position, which he did.  

I think you have made a good case that Devers was/is better suited for 1b than 3b.    But guess what?  No one in Sox management said that for 8 straight seasons.   You remember Dalbec?  That would have been a perfect year to switch Devers, but it never came even close to happening.

So all of  sudden in comes Bregman, a terrific 3d baseman and hitter.  But did anyone suggest 1b to Devers then?  Nosiree.  Casas owned that position even though he only played 63 games last season.  Heck, forget last season.  The Sox loved him this season with his .580 OPS.  He literally owned 1b, and there was no place for Devers except DH. 

And I must repeat this.  Not once in the previous 8 years had the Sox made any attempt to train Devers to be a firstbaseman.  Now, all of sudden, when Casas is having an absolutely crap year, it is of the highest priority to move Devers in there.  To me that's baloney.  

And, oh, by the way, with Devers at DH, the Sox played just as well as they did without their best player, Bregman, as they did with him.  Bregman was not missed--well, not so you tell by the W-L record.  

Where I do agree is that it was time for Devers to leave, both because they were paying him too much to be a DH and because in the end he probably wasn't very happy here.   

In my opinion management was just as screwed up as Devers.  

 

I do not think it’s true that no one ever suggested 1b to Devers.

Bloom’s initial contract extension proposal that Devers rejected was similar to an extension that had recently been signed by Matt Olson with Atlanta.  Reportedly this extension was based on the organization’s view that Devers’ future was as a first baseman in the view of the Sox organization.   If this is true and was relayed to Devers (and/or his agent), then it did come up before…

[Bellhorn04]

I feel no angst about this at all.  Raffy really lost me.  I know the Sox screwed up some stuff too, but I'm afraid he really proved who was in the wrong with his non-hustle.  That was confirmation that there were always going to be issues.   

[illinoisredsox]

19 minutes ago, dannycater said:

The entire Nomar issue was range...that was it...he didn't have the range anymore, the Sox felt they needed a defensive-strong SS and then they got him in Cabrera. I was upset when it happened, but that was Theo--and that guy seemed to often push the right buttons. He was ahead of the curve pre-season of 2004 and during.

Two things can be true at the same time.  Nomar wanted more money; the Sox didn’t want to pay him premium $ for what they (correctly) viewed as waning performance. 

The impasse led Nomar to pout through the first 4 months of the 2004 season, culminating with the series in NY when Jeter went into the stands to make a catch while Nomar sat out with some mysterious injury.

The rest was history.

[notin]

1 minute ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I feel no angst about this at all.  Raffy really lost me.  I know the Sox screwed up some stuff too, but I'm afraid he really proved who was in the wrong with his non-hustle.  That was confirmation that there were always going to be issues.   

While I don’t support his not hustling, he did recently say he had some groin issues.  What if he didn’t run hard because it hurt to?

 

[dannycater]

11 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

They are actively making the team worse, but some people are lapping it up. I don't get it. 

That is the time honored tradition of all chatrooms...Sox and B's...for some reason you get rid of marquee players or game-changers or stars--and somehow that is a good thing and justified based on "actions" of players or even quotes, or even "body language." Whatever, this trade blows..completely mis-timed---Sox lead major sports in bad timing.

[mvp 78]

2 minutes ago, notin said:

I do not think it’s true that no one ever suggested 1b to Devers.

Bloom’s initial contract extension proposal that Devers rejected was similar to an extension that had recently been signed by Matt Olson with Atlanta.  Reportedly this extension was based on the organization’s view that Devers’ future was as a first baseman in the view of the Sox organization.   If this is true and was relayed to Devers (and/or his agent), then it did come up before…

Bloom told Devers that he was going to be a 3b for years to come. Not sure what that has to do with Matt Olson as his contract is 168M and Raffy's was 313M? 

[mvp 78]

 

1 minute ago, notin said:

While I don’t support his not hustling, he did recently say he had some groin issues.  What if he didn’t run hard because it hurt to?

 

Cora said it wasn't a lack of hustling!!!!!!

[Bellhorn04]

2 minutes ago, notin said:

While I don’t support his not hustling, he did recently say he had some groin issues.  What if he didn’t run hard because it hurt to?

 

We're all guessing, but it seems possible it may have been a factor in them pulling the trigger on the trade.

 

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, dannycater said:

That is the time honored tradition of all chatrooms...Sox and B's...for some reason you get rid of marquee players or game-changers or stars--and somehow that is a good thing and justified based on "actions" of players or even quotes, or even "body language." Whatever, this trade blows..completely mis-timed---Sox lead major sports in bad timing.

The team is going in reverse, but they'll keep trotting out the cost savings to Henry and how they'll be in on guys in the future with PAYROLL FLEXIBLITY (we know how great they've been in the FA market in recent years) and wait for cheap prospects to do the heavy lifting. It's a big market ballclub trying to thread the needle that the Cincinnati Reds have to thread. Why? It makes no sense.

Good luck, but this team isn't going to win another WS for a looooong time. It won't be with Anthony, Mayer or any of these guys. Not because they aren't good enough, but because JH's head is so far up his backside that they won't build the right foundation of a winning team.

[Bellhorn04]

3 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

 

Cora said it wasn't a lack of hustling!!!!!!

But Cora's eye roll (which I didn't see but others reported) said differently.

[notin]

7 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Bloom told Devers that he was going to be a 3b for years to come. Not sure what that has to do with Matt Olson as his contract is 168M and Raffy's was 313M? 

T you’re talking about the offer Devers signed.  I’m talking about an earlier offer that he didn’t.

https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/red-sox-matt-olson-comparable-rafael-devers-contract/
 

This is in response to commentary that the Sox never mentioned first base before this year, which appears untrue.

Its actually pretty likely the only reason Bloom had to make such a promise was the mention of 1b in previous negotiations…

[mvp 78]

Just now, Bellhorn04 said:

We're all guessing, but it seems possible it may have been a factor in them pulling the trigger on the trade.

 

They were talking to the Giants for weeks apparently. The other teams (Jays, Padres, Braves) weren't as interested). The "hustle" play was 7 days ago.