A Realistic View of 2024: Part II

[notin]

Bell, I said "I think they may..."

 

It's the conditional tense that obviously depends on certain circumstances for it to be an option. In no way did I predict it or say I hope we suck badly enough we'll have a sell off.

 

My point is, if we do, then it might be the right choice.

 

I have also said, I'm not sure what this team's upper brass might do, if we are on the fringe of competition.

 

The Vaz trade was made at a time where many were saying we should be buyers- not sellers, and we actually did do a bit of both, that summer.

 

Other summers, like in '20, when we got Pivetta was a good idea.

 

Many felt we should have sold, last summer.

.

 

Bloom’s attempts at buy/sell in the same deadline were always abject failures. He never bought anything the Sox needed for that year. His sell deals were better, such as getting Abreu and getting Robertson, who was flipped for O’Neill…

[moonslav59]

Bloom’s attempts at buy/sell in the same deadline were always abject failures. He never bought anything the Sox needed for that year. His sell deals were better, such as getting Abreu and getting Robertson, who was flipped for O’Neill…

 

"Always?"

 

I only remember once.

 

He sold in '20.

 

He bought in '21.

 

He bought & sold in '22.

 

He did squat in '23.

[notin]

"Always?"

 

I only remember once.

 

He sold in '20.

 

He bought in '21.

 

He bought & sold in '22.

 

He did squat in '23.

 

He sold Kike in 2023 and bought Urias. The only good was that Breslow flipped one of the pitchers he sold Kike for to get O’Neill. The jury is still out on flipping Urias…

[moonslav59]

He sold Kike in 2023 and bought Urias. The only good was that Breslow flipped one of the pitchers he sold Kike for to get O’Neill. The jury is still out on flipping Urias…

 

Was that buying and selling?

[Old Red]

Bell, I said "I think they may..."

 

It's the conditional tense that obviously depends on certain circumstances for it to be an option. In no way did I predict it or say I hope we suck badly enough we'll have a sell off.

 

My point is, if we do, then it might be the right choice.

 

I have also said, I'm not sure what this team's upper brass might do, if we are on the fringe of competition.

 

The Vaz trade was made at a time where many were saying we should be buyers- not sellers, and we actually did do a bit of both, that summer.

 

Other summers, like in '20, when we got Pivetta was a good idea.

 

Many felt we should have sold, last summer.

.

 

You’ve called for a sell off more than anyone on here for the last 3 years sometimes before the season even started. How about trying for something new for once, and try thinking instead of stinking, and think they may be BUYERS this year instead of sellers.🤭🙈🤫

[notin]

Was that buying and selling?

 

Explain how it isn’t failed attempts at both…

[Bellhorn04]

Explain how it isn’t failed attempts at both…

 

You're making a pretty strange argument. He "succeeded" in unloading Kike and acquiring Urias, a couple of very minor moves, when there were much more significant moves that could have been made. Saying he did nothing is a fair description.

[Old Red]

You're making a pretty strange argument. He "succeeded" in unloading Kike and acquiring Urias, a couple of very minor moves, when there were much more significant moves that could have been made. Saying he did nothing is a fair description.

 

Saying he did nothing is a fair description considering the players said, and wanted help at the deadline last year. The only help Bloom gave them was calling them UNDERDOGS.🙈🤭

[mvp 78]

I think baseball is down all across the board, and I think the Red Sox will stick around all year long. New CBO, or not I think they will play to the end with no sell off.

 

I'm not saying they will or won't, but the recent few seasons aren't indicative of what they'll do this year.

[Bellhorn04]

Saying he did nothing is a fair description considering the players said, and wanted help at the deadline last year. The only help Bloom gave them was calling them UNDERDOGS.

 

I guess you could say Bloom proved the third fork in the road leads to the unemployment line.

[mvp 78]

Kind of hard to be sellers when most of your sell candidates are on the IL

 

Martin, Jansen, O'Neilll and McGuire will all be available today. Pivetta should be ready mid-May.

[mvp 78]

Sell offs has been a major topic on here for some for the last 3 years before, during, and after a current season, and that’s a fact. There’s always a hunt for more suspects/prospects.

 

Why lose a guy for nothing if you aren't a playoff team?

[Bellhorn04]

I'm not saying they will or won't, but the recent few seasons aren't indicative of what they'll do this year.

 

Agreed. The only thing I can say at this point is that Breslow shows signs of being a sharper and more decisive move-maker than Bloom, and that's an encouraging thing.

[Old Red]

I'm not saying they will or won't, but the recent few seasons aren't indicative of what they'll do this year.

 

I just think that baseball is down all across the board this year, and I think the Red Sox depleted, or not has a better chance to not only stay in the race, but to get in as well. I’m certainly not comparing what Bloom did, or didn’t do to what Brez will, or will not do.

[Bellhorn04]

Why lose a guy for nothing if you aren't a playoff team?

 

Conversely, a couple of good acquisitions might have put the 2023 team in the playoffs.

 

The expansion of the playoff field has added a lot of uncertainty to the deadline approach. Last year a team with 84 wins made it to the World Series, so arguably if you're around .500 at the deadline you still have a shot, depending on your specific circumstances.

[moonslav59]

Explain how it isn’t failed attempts at both…

 

I don't view trading Kike as "selling." The guy sucked. If we DFA'd him, I would not have blinked an eye.

 

Urias was an attempt to improve the team, but he was not a rental and not very significant.

 

I guess I'm okay with saying it was a teeny, tiny buy. I don't view trading Kike as a "sell." It was a dump. Getting Robertson was surprising, to me. (We also got Hagenman.) Perhaps, in light of what we got, it can be viewed as a "sell," but both of those trades were so minor, I called it a do nothing deadline. I still do.

[Old Red]

Why lose a guy for nothing if you aren't a playoff team?

 

I agree with that, but that time isn’t here yet, and hopefully it doesn’t get here.

[mvp 78]

Agreed. The only thing I can say at this point is that Breslow shows signs of being a sharper and more decisive move-maker than Bloom, and that's an encouraging thing.

 

100% more decisive.

[mvp 78]

I just think that baseball is down all across the board this year, and I think the Red Sox depleted, or not has a better chance to not only stay in the race, but to get in as well. I’m certainly not comparing what Bloom did, or didn’t do to what Brez will, or will not do.

 

If they are really in it (not 5 games out of the WC), then maybe they don't sell. If they are still dealing with a lot of injuries and trending down, they should sell IMO. I'm not stating they definitely will. I have no inside information. I do know that they should have sold in 2022 and 2023 and I advocated for it heavily.

[moonslav59]

Martin, Jansen, O'Neilll and McGuire will all be available today. Pivetta should be ready mid-May.

 

How about Whitlock?

 

All I can find is "after May 2."

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Bloom may someday extract his foot from his epiglottis, but that last Winter Weekend is still confounding...

 

When comparing Red Sox' organizational structures and/or strategies during contract extension negotiations with Betts and Devers, Bloom claimed they chose Raffy, because they were ready to surround him with talent (?), and Chaim was "willing to make that bet."

 

He lost -- but all the gambling sites matched his losings with more losers for his next bet.

[Old Red]

Conversely, a couple of good acquisitions might have put the 2023 team in the playoffs.

 

The expansion of the playoff field has added a lot of uncertainty to the deadline approach. Last year a team with 84 wins made it to the World Series, so arguably if you're around .500 at the deadline you still have a shot, depending on your specific circumstances.

 

Exactly, and that’s why the players were calling for pitching help last year when the Red Sox went with so many openers. Some on here wanted to sell, but I’ll side with the players on that one.

[mvp 78]

Conversely, a couple of good acquisitions might have put the 2023 team in the playoffs.

 

The expansion of the playoff field has added a lot of uncertainty to the deadline approach. Last year a team with 84 wins made it to the World Series, so arguably if you're around .500 at the deadline you still have a shot, depending on your specific circumstances.

 

A couple? They needed an additional 8 wins or something. That's more than a couple.

[mvp 78]

How about Whitlock?

 

All I can find is "after May 2."

 

He just got injured. No update yet.

[Old Red]

If they are really in it (not 5 games out of the WC), then maybe they don't sell. If they are still dealing with a lot of injuries and trending down, they should sell IMO. I'm not stating they definitely will. I have no inside information. I do know that they should have sold in 2022 and 2023 and I advocated for it heavily.

 

I think this is going to be one of those strange years like it hasn’t been already, and anything is possible. I said I hoped the Dodgers would go 162-0 when they spent all that money in the offseason, and even they don’t look so great at the moment.

[Bellhorn04]

A couple? They needed an additional 8 wins or something. That's more than a couple.

 

As it turned out, sure, but who knows how much of the team's collapse was a mental one due to the lack of help/lack of commitment shown by Bloom? I believe in some of the intangibles stuff.

 

The bottom line is the 2023 team was 2-3 out of the playoffs at the deadline. Is that out of it?

[moonslav59]

Why lose a guy for nothing if you aren't a playoff team?

 

Exactly, and discussing the possibilities of selling certain players, based on where we stand before the deadline, is an age old topic.

 

It's been a contentious topic, the last few years, as we have sometimes been on the bubble of buying and selling. There have usually been two camps, except in 2020 (all wanted to sell) and 2021 (all wanted to buy.)

 

It's easy to judge in hindsight, and some might still think we could have made the playoffs in 2022 and or 2023 had we added 2-3 key players, but in hindsight, it looks like it would have taken more than that.

 

Had we gotten something for Bogey, JD, Nate, Wacha, Duvall and others, we'd likely be much better off today and going forward.

 

As we stand now, I'm not for selling. I wish we'd trade for a defensive SS, today. I had hoped we'd sign 3 SP'ers over the winter, not one.

 

We all know this team could implode, at any minute. Before the season started, there were precious few who felt this team had a snowball's chance in hell of just making the playoffs, and that was before we lost Gio and Story for the season and others for parts of the season. I think it is entirely reasonable to look ahead and discuss some what ifs.

[Nick]

Kike trade was right out of the movie Moneyball.

 

Cora kept playing him. GM finally traded him so Cora wouldn't be tempted to play Kike at short.

 

Well that's my story.

[Bellhorn04]

Exactly, and discussing the possibilities of selling certain players, based on where we stand before the deadline, is an age old topic.

 

It's been a contentious topic, the last few years, as we have sometimes been on the bubble of buying and selling. There have usually been two camps, except in 2020 (all wanted to sell) and 2021 (all wanted to buy.)

 

It's easy to judge in hindsight, and some might still think we could have made the playoffs in 2022 and or 2023 had we added 2-3 key players, but in hindsight, it looks like it would have taken more than that.

 

Had we gotten something for Bogey, JD, Nate, Wacha, Duvall and others, we'd likely be much better off today and going forward.

 

As we stand now, I'm not for selling. I wish we'd trade for a defensive SS, today. I had hoped we'd sign 3 SP'ers over the winter, not one.

 

We all know this team could implode, at any minute. Before the season started, there were precious few who felt this team had a snowball's chance in hell of just making the playoffs, and that was before we lost Gio and Story for the season and others for parts of the season. I think it is entirely reasonable to look ahead and discuss some what ifs.

 

Why can't we just acknowledge that just about anything could happen in the next 3 months?

[moonslav59]

As it turned out, sure, but who knows how much of the team's collapse was a mental one due to the lack of help/lack of commitment shown by Bloom? I believe in some of the intangibles stuff.

 

The bottom line is the 2023 team was 2-3 out of the playoffs at the deadline. Is that out of it?

 

With the injuries we had, I think yes.

 

I understand not thinking the same.

 

(I'm also not one who believes in the playoff crapshoot things, so that plays into my opinion to sell at the 2023 deadline, too.)