Bloom fired

[sk7326]

Antonetti has been with Cleveland since '99. Why would he leave to go somewhere to get fired in 4 years?

 

This is the big question that ownership has to answer and adjust its own priors. It's the most reactive ownership in the league.

 

But maybe ownership has learned its lesson there, who knows.

[Bellhorn04]

Antonetti has been with Cleveland since '99. Why would he leave to go somewhere to get fired in 4 years?

 

Well, you get paid for 5 and have a year off to make other plans, so it's not all bad.

[illinoisredsox]

Chris Antonetti has been mentioned. He has turned down chances to leave Cleveland before. But if the Red Sox want to rebuild their organizational pitching - you're not going to do better than Cleveland.

 

Isn’t Antonetti PBO with Cleveland? That would make a move to Boston a lateral which means:

 

1) The Red Sox would have to ask permission to talk to him at all and

2) The Guardians would almost certainly require compensation should he leave

[sk7326]

Isn’t Antonetti PBO with Cleveland? That would make a move to Boston a lateral which means:

 

1) The Red Sox would have to ask permission to talk to him at all and

2) The Guardians would almost certainly require compensation should he leave

 

Or you look at whatever his top lieutenant is. Hazen turned the Sox down - but both Sawadye and Jason McLeod would make sense also.

[vjcsmoke]

I don't know who it will be but I just hope they pick a good GM who will understand how to run things in Boston.

 

Pedro Martinez put it really well - you need a special feel for the game and the city itself to succeed there.

 

Article on Pedro's comments: https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/pedro-martinez-what-he-wants-from-next-red-sox-general-manager-foundation-charter-school-dominican-republic-dan-roche-red-sox/

 

"You need to have a conduct that applies to Boston. You need to be proud to say, 'I am a Celtic,' 'I am a Bruin,' 'I am a Patriot,' 'I am Red Sox,' '[i am a Revolution],' 'I am an Eagle, Boston College.' You need to have pride when you come to Boston, like you are embracing Boston and giving max effort," said the 2004 World Series champ. "If not, then you are not probably well-suited for Boston. If you don't feel like Boston feels, then there is no connection."

[Bellhorn04]

One of the new points in the post-firing narrative seems to be "Bloom didn't understand the market he was working in."

 

To me, that really sounds like the owners trying to deflect blame for their rebuilding, cost-cutting measures.

[moonslav59]

One of the new points in the post-firing narrative seems to be "Bloom didn't understand the market he was working in."

 

To me, that really sounds like the owners trying to deflect blame for their rebuilding, cost-cutting measures.

 

Agreed, the "market" they gave him in 2020 was absurd. The 2021 winter budget was about half of what was needed to build a top team. We had about 12-14 slots to fill. Somehow, Bloom pulled that one out of his ass.

 

The 2022 season was a bit more fair, although I still feel like I'm not so sure Bloom had the Story contract money to spend, until they panicked and said "sign him!"

He did okay with the '22 spending, except for Story- which was major.

 

The 2023 winter budget was big, but he had a lot to replace. He dropped the ball on pitching, and the near misses on Nata and Eflin did him in.

 

Too many near misses may not signal misunderstanding the market.

 

Another point to make is that while our spending caught back up with 2019, so many other temas passed that mark, so some relativity might be needed, here.

[mvp 78]

One of the new points in the post-firing narrative seems to be "Bloom didn't understand the market he was working in."

 

To me, that really sounds like the owners trying to deflect blame for their rebuilding, cost-cutting measures.

 

Henry didn't understand the Mookie market or the Xander market IMO.

[Bellhorn04]

Henry didn't understand the Mookie market or the Xander market IMO.

 

Yeah, my position now is that when Henry first started thinking about the possibility of not signing Mookie to an extension, that's when he and the franchise really started going off the rails. It may be a while yet before it's back on the rails.

[mvp 78]

Yeah, my position now is that when Henry first started thinking about the possibility of not signing Mookie to an extension, that's when he and the franchise really started going off the rails. It may be a while yet before it's back on the rails.

 

I think the "value the player" is the tone set at the top from Henry. It goes back to the Lester negotiations and has kind of been an undercurrent here except for the sexy DD years. I think Henry liked Chaim because he was a guy who set values on players and stuck to them. Overall as a strategy, it doesn't work out.

[vegasbob]

With former Angels/recently Mets GM Billy Eppler now on the market, I hope the Sox pass on the "opportunity" to keep Eppler off the unemployment line. This would not be a choice pick if results are what matters

 

To be fair, Eppler was the GM who got Shohei signed for the Angels 6 years ago. Shohei did miss a year on the mound with his first TJ, so maybe wherever Eppler goes, so goes Shohei. Probably not.

Edited October 5, 2023 by vegasbob

[moonslav59]

How about what Dipoto said to the fans, then later apologized for saying it...

 

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/mariners/jerry-dipoto-tells-mariners-fans-what-they-dont-want-to-hear/

[harmony]

How about what Dipoto said to the fans, then later apologized for saying it...

 

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/mariners/jerry-dipoto-tells-mariners-fans-what-they-dont-want-to-hear/

Indeed.

 

Jerry Dipoto usually chooses his words more carefully.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Not from a GM but one of his players:

 

"...going out and getting those big names — people who have done it; people have been there; people who are leaders; people who have shown time and time again that they can be successful in this league — is definitely going to help this clubhouse and help this team.”

 

“… We have to do that to keep up. We’ve done a great job of growing some players here within the farm system, but sometimes you’ve got to go out and you have to buy. And that’s just the name of the game.

 

“We’ll see what happens this offseason. Hopefully we can add some players and become a better team.”

 

The above comments come via link from a player whose club traded its closer at the deadline and then just missed making the postseason (and not a cellar-dweller that refused to trade a veteran starter at peak value before he landed back on the IL).

[moonslav59]

Indeed.

 

Jerry Dipoto usually chooses his words more carefully.

 

I think he still believes what he said was true, but had to retract it, so fans would not be so pissed.

 

He did go beyond just a retract.

[sk7326]

Agreed, the "market" they gave him in 2020 was absurd. The 2021 winter budget was about half of what was needed to build a top team. We had about 12-14 slots to fill. Somehow, Bloom pulled that one out of his ass.

 

The 2022 season was a bit more fair, although I still feel like I'm not so sure Bloom had the Story contract money to spend, until they panicked and said "sign him!"

He did okay with the '22 spending, except for Story- which was major.

 

The 2023 winter budget was big, but he had a lot to replace. He dropped the ball on pitching, and the near misses on Nata and Eflin did him in.

 

Too many near misses may not signal misunderstanding the market.

 

Another point to make is that while our spending caught back up with 2019, so many other temas passed that mark, so some relativity might be needed, here.

 

Right. Last year the team had the 12th highest payroll in the league. There was definitely room to add outside pitching.

 

While I don't want the team to be stupid about spending ... as Law put succinctly they're the Boston bleeping Red Sox and need to start acting like it again.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Right. Last year the team had the 12th highest payroll in the league. There was definitely room to add outside pitching.

 

While I don't want the team to be stupid about spending ... as Law put succinctly they're the Boston bleeping Red Sox and need to start acting like it again.

 

People can make fun of the Mets because their plan backfired (and they're from NY), but their fans can't fault ownership for going all in, and immediately rectifying mistakes by trading big contracts for prospects, and changing upper management.

 

If you're a Mets fan, at least you know they're committed to win. Now.

[notin]

People can make fun of the Mets because their plan backfired (and they're from NY), but their fans can't fault ownership for going all in, and immediately rectifying mistakes by trading big contracts for prospects, and changing upper management.

 

If you're a Mets fan, at least you know they're committed to win. Now.

 

We, committed in March. They actually blew everything up kind of fast. They didn’t want to see of it was just some bad years from some key folk? Maybe see if Edwin Diaz makes up some of the slack?

[Old Red]

Like in the Globe today the new GM type will be coming in under some curious conditions. It seems Cora won the power struggle with Bloom, and kudos to him. Cora gets to stay, and help pick out the next in charge. Also O’Hall has already been named the exec VP of baseball ops, so the new person in charge already has their own manager, and staff in place. I don’t know how appealing the Red Sox job is going to be. Sam Kennedy thinks, because it is the Red Sox people will be all lined up for the job, and I don’t think that will be the case at all. It doesn’t seem like a long term job security, and everyone saw that DD got fired after 4 winning season, and a WS title. This is not a normal job opening at all.

[notin]

Like in the Globe today the new GM type will be coming in under some curious conditions. It seems Cora won the power struggle with Bloom, and kudos to him. Cora gets to stay, and help pick out the next in charge. Also O’Hall has already been named the exec VP of baseball ops, so the new person in charge already has their own manager, and staff in place. I don’t know how appealing the Red Sox job is going to be. Sam Kennedy thinks, because it is the Red Sox people will be all lined up for the job, and I don’t think that will be the case at all. It doesn’t seem like a long term job security, and everyone saw that DD got fired after 4 winning season, and a WS title. This is not a normal job opening at all.

 

I think DD got fired for questionable (not illegal, just expensive and not smart) financial practices, which a lot of teams have limitations on.

[Old Red]

I think DD got fired for questionable (not illegal, just expensive and not smart) financial practices, which a lot of teams have limitations on.

 

DD got fired, because he had a falling out with JH. How many teams have two losing last place teams, and not only keep their manager, but gives him more power? Did JH offer Cora the GM job when they met, and Cora told him he wasn’t ready? We’ll see how this all works out, but not your normal operations process.

[notin]

DD got fired, because he had a falling out with JH. How many teams have two losing last place teams, and not only keep their manager, but gives him more power? Did JH offer Cora the GM job when they met, and Cora told him he wasn’t ready? We’ll see how this all works out, but not your normal operations process.

 

 

And you don’t think that falling out has anything to do with building a $240mill 84-win team with $300mill on the books for three frequently injured pitchers?

 

Because if you’re saying Henry fired him for timbering else, it really paints a picture where Henry is much more tolerant…

[Old Red]

And you don’t think that falling out has anything to do with building a $240mill 84-win team with $300mill on the books for three frequently injured pitchers?

 

Because if you’re saying Henry fired him for timbering else, it really paints a picture where Henry is much more tolerant…

 

I don’t think it was all about only winning 84 after aWS title, and winning 100+, but mostly to do with the financials.

[mvp 78]

I think DD got fired for questionable (not illegal, just expensive and not smart) financial practices, which a lot of teams have limitations on.

 

Does JH have a say in FA contracts and player extensions or no?

[mvp 78]

I think DD wasn't fired because of the contracts, he was fired because there were no in house replacements for the self sustaining contender than JH wanted since the Theo days. The 30th ranked farm system is what pushed him out the door.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Like in the Globe today the new GM type will be coming in under some curious conditions. It seems Cora won the power struggle with Bloom, and kudos to him. Cora gets to stay, and help pick out the next in charge. Also O’Hall has already been named the exec VP of baseball ops, so the new person in charge already has their own manager, and staff in place. I don’t know how appealing the Red Sox job is going to be. Sam Kennedy thinks, because it is the Red Sox people will be all lined up for the job, and I don’t think that will be the case at all. It doesn’t seem like a long term job security, and everyone saw that DD got fired after 4 winning season, and a WS title. This is not a normal job opening at all.

 

If the Red Sox are just going to be run by committee, they don't need to look any further than this board.

 

We've got advanced scouts everywhere -- Hugh in the north, MVP in the south, Dipre in the Caribbean... Moon can head analytics, Bellhorn as the voice of reason, Old Red the voice of treason (Sam Kennedy replacement), and Notin to settle arbitration arguments with irony that compels all to comply while laughing at themselves (they think).

 

The Roster Recruiter -- by fan majority vote -- has to be Max, who will stockpile batmen, bats, and superstar lumberjacks to outbash any bad pitching and defense... and most importantly, keep customers entertained.

[Old Red]

Does JH have a say in FA contracts and player extensions or no?

 

He certainly did with Lester, and Betts. He met Lester out in the parking lot after lowballing him, but that was the old JH. Now a days he just stays tucked away somewhere.

[moonslav59]

Right. Last year the team had the 12th highest payroll in the league. There was definitely room to add outside pitching.

 

While I don't want the team to be stupid about spending ... as Law put succinctly they're the Boston bleeping Red Sox and need to start acting like it again.

 

Indeed, but as it turned out, the additions to the offense were needed and also not really enough.

 

The additions to the pen were needed and that worked out well.

 

The bottom line: there just wasn't enough funds to fill all our needs.

 

More on starting pitching seems to be what everyone agreed on, and the big swing and miss on Kluber was the big mistake.

 

As it turned out, Yoshida did not do all that well, so using his money for pitching and a defensive SS might have made a significant difference, but we had no way of knowing Duran would bounce back, and our OF offense would improve by over 100 points.

 

The winter budget was large, but we were also in need of replacing Bogey, JD, Nate, Wacha, Hill, Vaz and Strahm. The other point was that several other teams passed us in the salary rankings, besides our major winter budget.

[Old Red]

If the Red Sox are just going to be run by committee, they don't need to look any further than this board.

 

We've got advanced scouts everywhere -- Hugh in the north, MVP in the south, Dipre in the Caribbean... Moon can head analytics, Bellhorn as the voice of reason, Old Red the voice of treason (Sam Kennedy replacement), and Notin to settle arbitration arguments with irony that compels all to comply while laughing at themselves (they think).

 

The Roster Recruiter -- by fan majority vote -- has to be Max, who will stockpile batmen, bats, and superstar lumberjacks to outbash any bad pitching and defense... and most importantly, keep customers entertained.

 

👍👍👍🙈.

[mvp 78]

If the Red Sox are just going to be run by committee, they don't need to look any further than this board.

 

We've got advanced scouts everywhere -- Hugh in the north, MVP in the south, Dipre in the Caribbean... Moon can head analytics, Bellhorn as the voice of reason, Old Red the voice of treason (Sam Kennedy replacement), and Notin to settle arbitration arguments with irony that compels all to comply while laughing at themselves (they think).

 

The Roster Recruiter -- by fan majority vote -- has to be Max, who will stockpile batmen, bats, and superstar lumberjacks to outbash any bad pitching and defense... and most importantly, keep customers entertained.

 

As the Southern Scout, please stop asking for Edward Cabrera. You don't really want him.