Bloom fired

[Bellhorn04]

The thing why I just sing is because it has more to do with the Yankees winning than the Sox losing. And that was how it differed from 2011…

 

Historical context is always important, and the fact it was the Yankees who overcame us was certainly part of that. To me it was especially crushing because it was the end of the dream for the powerful but ringless Red Sox teams of the 70's.

[moonslav59]

In 2020, new Red Sox Chief Baseball Officer Chaim Bloom acquired or promoted 20 new pitchers -- including three position players -- who threw at least one pitch. His pitching staff had the worst team ERA in franchise history.

 

Perez, Mazza, Godley, Valdez, Brice, Springs, Osich, Covey, Kickham, Stock, Hart, Hall, Triggs, Leyer, Tapia, Houck, Pivetta, Lin, Plawecki, Peraza.

 

Please tell me how any GM does better with a budget under $20M and several gaping holes on the field as well?

 

I'm sorry, but I think it is 100% silly to blame Bloom for not building a winner in 2020, or even close.

 

Could he have done better than a .400 team? Okay, maybe, but in a 60 game season, 4 or 6 more wins would have brought us near the middle of the pack in Sox history rather than the 12th worst winning % ever.

 

Yes, I expected he'd be better at dumpster diving, but he had just taken over a team in the midst of a tear down, COVID and a massive budget cut. Then, Sale and ERod miss the whole season. No Porcello or a replacement. Nate missed 25% of his starts.

 

Was it also Bloom's fault JD hit .680, Beni .442 and Devers .793?

 

It's nothing short of silly. Honestly.

 

You guys would blame the GM for not winning, if he was handed a little league team on opening day.

[moonslav59]

The 1978 Red Sox had a great team, with 4 future HOFers and 2 borderliners (Tiant and Evans).

 

They started 62-28 (.689) and finished 37-36 (.507).

 

They played the Yankees 8 times from September 7 to October 2 and lost 7 of them.

 

If you want to characterize this as something other than a collapse, hey, no one can stop you.

 

While all 100% true, one does not usually associate a collapse with a team that finished the season winning 8 in a row to force a playoff game. They also won 12 of their last 14.

 

It was the Yanks who lost to CLE 9-2 on the final game of the season to force the tie. not the Sox, and although they won 6 in a row before that, they went 9-4 in their last 14, as the Sox went 12-2.

 

It was all about that Bucky-freakin-Dent game, otherwise, we'd be calling it a Yankee collapse.

 

I'm not sure one game should swing a season to a label of "collapse," but I can see how your points can lead someone to think that.

[Bellhorn04]

While all 100% true, one does not usually associate a collapse with a team that finished the season winning 8 in a row to force a playoff game. They also won 12 of their last 14.

 

It was the Yanks who lost to CLE 9-2 on the final game of the season to force the tie. not the Sox, and although they won 6 in a row before that, they went 9-4 in their last 14, as the Sox went 12-2.

 

It was all about that Bucky-freakin-Dent game, otherwise, we'd be calling it a Yankee collapse.

 

I'm not sure one game should swing a season to a label of "collapse," but I can see how your points can lead someone to think that.

 

They had a 14 game lead over the Yankees in July. Losing a 14 game lead is a collapse, in my books.

[illinoisredsox]

They had a 14 game lead over the Yankees in July. Losing a 14 game lead is a collapse, in my books.

 

It was both the Yankees winning at a ridiculous pace the last 2 months and the Sox being on fumes because Zimmer played the regulars every day all year.

 

After the All-Star break the Yankees went 54-25 (.684). In August and September, they went 41-16 (.719). If they played at a mere .700 pace, game 163 never happens.

 

As I said, the idiot Zimmer played the regulars to the point of exhaustion:

 

Rice played all 163 games that year. Fine, he was young, strong and played both LF and DH, he could handle it.

 

Burleson played in 145 of the 147 games he was available for. He was on the DL for a couple weeks in July.

 

Remy played in 148 games, and most of the ones he missed were in early September when he was banged up a little (no need for a DL stint at that time of year)

 

What Zimmer did to Fisk was criminal. Fisk played in 157 games. He caught in 154 of those, starting 150 of them. This was after the 1977 season where he played almost as much.

 

Zimmer kept Hobson in the line-up all year, even while Butch was rearranging bone chips in his elbow between pitches.

 

 

The biggest culprit in the collapse was Zimmer.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Please tell me how any GM does better with a budget under $20M and several gaping holes on the field as well?

 

I'm sorry, but I think it is 100% silly to blame Bloom for not building a winner in 2020, or even close.

 

Could he have done better than a .400 team? Okay, maybe, but in a 60 game season, 4 or 6 more wins would have brought us near the middle of the pack in Sox history rather than the 12th worst winning % ever.

 

Yes, I expected he'd be better at dumpster diving, but he had just taken over a team in the midst of a tear down, COVID and a massive budget cut. Then, Sale and ERod miss the whole season. No Porcello or a replacement. Nate missed 25% of his starts.

 

Was it also Bloom's fault JD hit .680, Beni .442 and Devers .793?

 

It's nothing short of silly. Honestly.

 

You guys would blame the GM for not winning, if he was handed a little league team on opening day.

 

You'll never see me guys type any adjectives that disparage other posts. But now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. No one said Bloom should have won a title or even more games than he lost in 2020.

 

I merely pointed out the fact that in his first year -- the year HE, HIMSELF, signed, traded for or promoted TWENTY new players (20 in '20) who threw a pitch for the Boston Red Sox -- that the pitching staff set an all-time franchise low with the highest ERA in club history.

 

It's a fact. And I seem to remember you, yourself, also stating at some point that the 2020 Sox pitchers were the worst you've ever seen as a fan.

 

Please stick to your post yesterday when you literally typed, "I can't say anything" because it's "beyond discussing." Let it go. Just like the Sox let Bloom go.

[moonslav59]

They had a 14 game lead over the Yankees in July. Losing a 14 game lead is a collapse, in my books.

 

Yes, I said your points make sense, but there are other factors that show we fought back and it was the Yanks that caused the playoff game to happen.

[moonslav59]

You'll never see me guys type any adjectives that disparage other posts. But now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. No one said Bloom should have won a title or even more games than he lost in 2020.

 

Did I say "title?" I thought I said "winning team or close."

 

You listed a bunch of waiver wire type pitchers that Bloom added. That was what he had to spend- waiver wire money.

 

Yes, we had the worst ERA. Was that Bloom's fault?

 

I'm sorry if I read too much into your reply, but the talk was blaming Bloom for the state of the 2020 staff.

 

Could he have done better than the mish-mash he added? Sure, but you get what you pay for, and he paid next to nothing.

 

The staff last Price and Porcello and others from 2019. Sale and ERod missed the whole year, and the one starter who pitched missed 25% of his starts.

 

The sad part was the one good guy he picked, Springs, was traded.

Edited September 23, 2023 by moonslav59

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Did I say "title?" I thought I said "winning team or close."

 

You listed a bunch of waiver wire type pitchers that Bloom added. That was what he had to spend- waiver wire money.

 

Yes, we had the worst ERA. Was that Bloom's fault?

 

I'm sorry if I read too much into your reply, but the talk was blaming Bloom for the state of the 2020 staff.

 

Could he have done better than the mish-mash he added? Sure, but you get what you pay for, and he paid next to nothing.

 

The staff last Price and Porcello and others from 2019. Sale and ERod missed the whole year, and the one starter who pitched missed 25% of his starts.

 

The sad part was the one good guy he picked, Springs, was traded.

 

None of 2020-23 was just Bloom's fault, but it all happened on his watch, when he occupied the top position in the front office.

 

For all I know, he's a good guy, as are many of his colleagues in Sox management -- including those who had good reps for years before he was even hired.

 

But unfortunately, those who remain employed by the Red Sox may also have to step aside if Henry and Co. are really intent on changing things. What I'm getting at is the new CBO/GM/JEFE/HONCHO probably needs to be hired from outside the org, and be allowed to bring in his/her own staff to run things. That may also mean a new manager and coaching staff on the field.

 

Otherwise, fans should not expect all that much to change right away... and realize that Bloom's firing was just for show. But not The Show.

[moonslav59]

None of 2020-23 was just Bloom's fault, but it all happened on his watch, when he occupied the top position in the front office.

 

For all I know, he's a good guy, as are many of his colleagues in Sox management -- including those who had good reps for years before he was even hired.

 

But unfortunately, those who remain employed by the Red Sox may also have to step aside if Henry and Co. are really intent on changing things. What I'm getting at is the new CBO/GM/JEFE/HONCHO probably needs to be hired from outside the org, and be allowed to bring in his/her own staff to run things. That may also mean a new manager and coaching staff on the field.

 

Otherwise, fans should not expect all that much to change right away... and realize that Bloom's firing was just for show. But not The Show.

 

I'm fine with blasting away at '22-'23 and with his firing.

 

JH was not going to fire himself, and Bloom did not earn the right to continue.

[notin]

Names have been bandied about in the media, but have the Sox actually started the search process? Like scheduled/conducted interviews?

 

The Mets went ahead and hired their new guy a couple weeks ago. Wondering if the Sox plan on being similarly (and smartly) as aggressive…

[mvp 78]

Names have been bandied about in the media, but have the Sox actually started the search process? Like scheduled/conducted interviews?

 

The Mets went ahead and hired their new guy a couple weeks ago. Wondering if the Sox plan on being similarly (and smartly) as aggressive…

 

If not, it's because the person they want is currently employed somewhere else.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

If not, it's because the person they want is currently employed somewhere else.

 

Or already by Boston...

[mvp 78]

Or already by Boston...

 

If that's the case, I think they'd just make the announcement and move on with their lives.

[notin]

If not, it's because the person they want is currently employed somewhere else.

 

As long as it’s a promotion, they can technically conduct the interview process. Wasn’t Cora still banging the drum as the bench coach in the ALCS against the Yankees when the Sox announced he would manage the team in 2018?

[mvp 78]

As long as it’s a promotion, they can technically conduct the interview process. Wasn’t Cora still banging the drum as the bench coach in the ALCS against the Yankees when the Sox announced he would manage the team in 2018?

 

Fuld - promotion

Sabean - promotion

Ng - lateral

Hazen - lateral (though I think he has taken himself out of consideration)

 

I'm not sure if there are dark horse candidates or who has the inside track.

[Old Red]

Fuld - promotion

Sabean - promotion

Ng - lateral

Hazen - lateral (though I think he has taken himself out of consideration)

 

I'm not sure if there are dark horse candidates or who has the inside track.

 

Word on the street is that the Red Sox have been calling other GM’s not to hire, but to asking advice on who good was out there to hire. Sounds like a top notch operation to me. O’Hall has already been named Exec VP of baseball ops, and Cora has been told he’s coming back in some capacity, so I don’t know how much change is really going to happen.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

As long as it’s a promotion, they can technically conduct the interview process. Wasn’t Cora still banging the drum as the bench coach in the ALCS against the Yankees when the Sox announced he would manage the team in 2018?

 

The drummer wasn't uniformed personnel, but a Pete Worst patsie who had been banned from other boy bands.

[notin]

Fuld - promotion

Sabean - promotion

Ng - lateral

Hazen - lateral (though I think he has taken himself out of consideration)

 

I'm not sure if there are dark horse candidates or who has the inside track.

 

I take it they simply do not understand how many threads we would need to start to open the discussion about firing all those people.

 

And you know what? They probably don’t even care…

[mvp 78]

I take it they simply do not understand how many threads we would need to start to open the discussion about firing all those people.

 

And you know what? They probably don’t even care…

 

Larry would have cared. Bring back Larry!

[notin]

Larry would have cared. Bring back Larry!

 

Larry was One Of Us!!

 

Too far?

[mvp 78]

Larry was One Of Us!!

 

Too far?

 

For one glorious evening he was.

[Bellhorn04]

Word on the street is that the Red Sox have been calling other GM’s not to hire, but to asking advice on who good was out there to hire. Sounds like a top notch operation to me. O’Hall has already been named Exec VP of baseball ops, and Cora has been told he’s coming back in some capacity, so I don’t know how much change is really going to happen.

 

My hunch is they're going to hire someone from outside. I don't think Henry is any more enthralled by the idea of Same Old Same Old than you are after watching this wreck of a season.

[mvp 78]

My hunch is they're going to hire someone from outside. I don't think Henry is any more enthralled by the idea of Same Old Same Old than you are after watching this wreck of a season.

 

Who's the shiny new toy though?

[Bellhorn04]

Who's the shiny new toy though?

 

That's what we can't wait to find out.

[Old Red]

My hunch is they're going to hire someone from outside. I don't think Henry is any more enthralled by the idea of Same Old Same Old than you are after watching this wreck of a season.

 

The reasons I have doubts is, because of naming O’Halloran exc VP of baseball ops, and telling Cora he will be back.

[sk7326]

The reasons I have doubts is, because of naming O’Halloran exc VP of baseball ops, and telling Cora he will be back.

 

Maybe. But remember that Cora was the choice of multiple front office regimes here. He's just incredibly respected in the industry.

[sk7326]

Fuld - promotion

Sabean - promotion

Ng - lateral

Hazen - lateral (though I think he has taken himself out of consideration)

 

I'm not sure if there are dark horse candidates or who has the inside track.

 

Chris Antonetti has been mentioned. He has turned down chances to leave Cleveland before. But if the Red Sox want to rebuild their organizational pitching - you're not going to do better than Cleveland.

[Old Red]

Maybe. But remember that Cora was the choice of multiple front office regimes here. He's just incredibly respected in the industry.

 

Cora was picked by DD, and rehired by Bloom, but I’m not sure it was Bloom’s decision, or not, and it looks like it won’t be the decision of an outsider GM now.

[mvp 78]

Maybe. But remember that Cora was the choice of multiple front office regimes here. He's just incredibly respected in the industry.

 

Antonetti has been with Cleveland since '99. Why would he leave to go somewhere to get fired in 4 years?