Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[Duran Is The Man]

It's clear that Henry preferred inexperienced guys that he can boss around.

 

DD probably stood up to him and then was fired for doing so.

[moonslav59]

It's clear that Henry preferred inexperienced guys that he can boss around.

 

They all lasted the same 4 years.

[Hitch]

I don't know, I thought Bloom really was trying to do the rebuild but compete thing. He just made some s***** moves, and he got incredibly indecisive at the deadlines. But his offseason moves did make some sense in view of the stated plan.

 

That's fair. He was trying that, which made his moves at the deadlines all the more baffling as he had the chance to accelerate it. Possibly, greatly. But he either couldn't talk himself into a position on which road to take, or he was worried about the reaction if he took the 'sell' one.

[Hitch]

I know I gave up on our chance to win in 2022 before most others, and I get the argument about being only x games behind the last WC slot on tarde day, but I just had a sense we were toast. IMO, we should have sold every player not under control for 2023. We should have told Bogey we were not going to offer him market value, so why not accept a trade and lose the QO burden. I might have agreed.

 

We'd have been way better off for 2023 (and or beyond) had we done that. Being a little better off would likely have made being buyers in '23 more apparent, even to Bloom, but even selling in '23 was better than doing nothing.

 

Yeah I was the same, I was hoping we'd go in sell mode from early on. That was an opportunity missed. Them's the breaks.

[Bellhorn04]

That's fair. He was trying that, which made his moves at the deadlines all the more baffling as he had the chance to accelerate it. Possibly, greatly. But he either couldn't talk himself into a position on which road to take, or he was worried about the reaction if he took the 'sell' one.

 

What we'll never know is how many other voices he had in his ear on the buy vs. sell decision, including the voice of the big man. It's quite possible of course that he had to make the decision on his own.

 

According to Werner they don't interfere with their CBO, so I'm sure we can take that to the bank.

[mvp 78]

That's fair. He was trying that, which made his moves at the deadlines all the more baffling as he had the chance to accelerate it. Possibly, greatly. But he either couldn't talk himself into a position on which road to take, or he was worried about the reaction if he took the 'sell' one.

 

He was a guy who always second guessed himself and never wanted to lose a trade. He took the path of least resistance, which was to do nothing.

[mvp 78]

What we'll never know is how many other voices he had in his ear on the buy vs. sell decision, including the voice of the big man. It's quite possible of course that he had to make the decision on his own.

 

According to Werner they don't interfere with their CBO, so I'm sure we can take that to the bank.

 

Werner is the most reliable source in the Hub of the Universe!

[moonslav59]

He was a guy who always second guessed himself and never wanted to lose a trade. He took the path of least resistance, which was to do nothing.

 

He did a lot. The roster turned over and over. We saw dozens of players on the 26 over 4 years.

 

The problem was he didn't do enough good things.

 

Most moves were minor ones, and that was partially due to a low budget, especially for the first 2 years.

[mvp 78]

He did a lot. The roster turned over and over. We saw dozens of players on the 26 over 4 years.

 

The problem was he didn't do enough good things.

 

Most moves were minor ones, and that was partially due to a low budget, especially for the first 2 years.

 

Churning the bottom 10 guys with waiver claims is easy. You don't even have to call other GM's to make those moves!

[moonslav59]

Churning the bottom 10 guys with waiver claims is easy. You don't even have to call other GM's to make those moves!

 

Agreed, but his problem was not the lack of moves. He made so many bad one, it forced too many moves to replace . (More like churning the bottom 15-18.)

 

He made a good chunk of mid-level moves, too, but not enough. Many were not bad or pretty good (Pivetta, the Diekman dump, signing Renfroe, Hill, Wacha, Strahm, Kike I, Martin & maybe a few I missed.)

 

He only made a few big moves, and the budget may have been partially to blame, for that. Plus, he blew most of these.

 

Edited February 8, 2024 by moonslav59

[Randy Red Sox]

Red Sox take a flyer on Michael Fulmer. Two year minor league deal. He is out for 2024 season. Hopefully, he can contribute in 2025. Low risk move.

 

 

Exactly the type of deals the Sox are specialized in these days

[Randy Red Sox]

I agree on $375M for Betts, and he probably would have taken it. I was fine with $400M a year before he was traded.

 

Wasn't $162M/6 a lower contract ahead of time? Do we know what was offered, discussed or floated? Sure, I wish we signed Bogey for less than SDP, but by a lot. If we never offered hima reasonable deal, I agree 100%, it was a mistake.

 

Maybe if the Sox actually signed a decent FA we could have something to talk about rather than continuing to rehash Xander and Mookie leaving.

[mvp 78]

Exactly the type of deals the Sox are specialized in these days

 

No impact for this year. Upside for next? They really don't care about this season.

[mvp 78]

Agreed, but his problem was not the lack of moves. He made so many bad one, it forced too many moves to replace . (More like churning the bottom 15-18.)

 

He made a good chunk of mid-level moves, too, but not enough. Many were not bad or pretty good (Pivetta, the Diekman dump, signing Renfroe, Hill, Wacha, Strahm, Kike I, Martin & maybe a few I missed.)

 

He only made a few big moves, and the budget may have been partially to blame, for that. Plus, he blew most of these.

 

 

His problem is he didn't do a teardown in '22.

 

At the deadline he should have traded Sale and JD as offers were on the table. Xander and Eovaldi were given QO's that offseason and the comp picks would have been higher. A case could be made that he should have sold high on Schreiber too. That puts the rebuild in motion sooner. Hill and Wacha were probably seen as damaged goods and unable to be dealt at the deadline.

 

At the '23 deadline or sooner, Paxton should have been traded.

[moonslav59]

Maybe if the Sox actually signed a decent FA we could have something to talk about rather than continuing to rehash Xander and Mookie leaving.

 

No argument, here.

 

I don't count the Gio signing as major, although it has the 2nd or 3rd highest AAV of any signing since DD. (Story is more. Yoshi is close, and it depends if Gio gets the $1M buyout for '25.))

 

[moonslav59]

His problem is he didn't do a teardown in '22.

 

At the deadline he should have traded Sale and JD as offers were on the table. Xander and Eovaldi were given QO's that offseason and the comp picks would have been higher. A case could be made that he should have sold high on Schreiber too. That puts the rebuild in motion sooner. Hill and Wacha were probably seen as damaged goods and unable to be dealt at the deadline.

 

At the '23 deadline or sooner, Paxton should have been traded.

 

Singing to the limited choir.

[notin]

Maybe if the Sox actually signed a decent FA we could have something to talk about rather than continuing to rehash Xander and Mookie leaving.

 

Or Dalton Guthrie coming

[moonslav59]

Maybe if the Sox actually signed a decent FA we could have something to talk about rather than continuing to rehash Xander and Mookie leaving.

 

This has been a very uneventful winter. The biggest story was the CBO change and not any player addition or trade.

 

Trading Sale might normally be a huge headline, but he lost his luster, years ago.

 

Our most noteworthy winter deals?

 

Giolito

Grissom for Sale

O'Neill

Fitts, Weissert & Judice for Dugo

I Campbell for Urias

Slaten (Rule 5) and lost Drogan & others to Rule 5

(Criswell, Heineman, R Gonzalez)

 

Sad.

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Red Sox take a flyer on Michael Fulmer. Two year minor league deal. He is out for 2024 season. Hopefully, he can contribute in 2025. Low risk move.

 

In related news, future GM Cooper Criswell announced that Roman Anthony has signed over the rights to his as-yet first-born son, Marc.

 

"We know he probably won't be able to contribute until around 2044," said Criz, "but we like that we control him for the next couple decades or so."

 

"... except 7th and 8th grade," added Sam Kennedy, telling the truth for the first time this winter, " -- no one can control middle school boys."

[S5Dewey]

He was a guy who always second guessed himself and never wanted to lose a trade. He took the path of least resistance, which was to do nothing.

 

IMHO Bloom was afraid to fail, afraid to pull the trigger.

[S5Dewey]

His problem is he didn't do a teardown in '22.

 

At the deadline he should have traded Sale and JD as offers were on the table. Xander and Eovaldi were given QO's that offseason and the comp picks would have been higher. A case could be made that he should have sold high on Schreiber too. That puts the rebuild in motion sooner. Hill and Wacha were probably seen as damaged goods and unable to be dealt at the deadline.

 

At the '23 deadline or sooner, Paxton should have been traded.

 

You may or may not be right about that, but if he'd made those moves the fanbase would have gone INSANE!

[Larry Cook]

By July, we could be 20 games out of playoff contention. What assets do we have that we could get some value on the trade market?

 

Jansen?

Martin?

O’Neil?

Pivetta?

Gioletta?

 

Brez-slow could have a long year ahead of him!

[moonslav59]

You may or may not be right about that, but if he'd made those moves the fanbase would have gone INSANE!

 

Maybe just "more" insane.

[mvp 78]

IMHO Bloom was afraid to fail, afraid to pull the trigger.

 

100%. You need the CBO to be able to not so risk averse.

[mvp 78]

You may or may not be right about that, but if he'd made those moves the fanbase would have gone INSANE!

 

How would you say the fanbase feels today?

[mvp 78]

By July, we could be 20 games out of playoff contention. What assets do we have that we could get some value on the trade market?

 

Jansen?

Martin?

O’Neil?

Pivetta?

Gioletta?

 

Brez-slow could have a long year ahead of him!

 

One of the main MLB writers (don't remember which) stated that the Sox need to clear Jansen's salary if they want to sign Montgomery. They can sign Montgomery and still be under the CBT. Jansen's salary is off the books next year. How does that make any sense?

[moonslav59]

By July, we could be 20 games out of playoff contention. What assets do we have that we could get some value on the trade market?

 

Jansen?

Martin?

O’Neil?

Pivetta?

Gioletta?

 

Brez-slow could have a long year ahead of him!

 

I would add more to this list:

 

A catcher to make room for Teel, most likely McGuire, who loses team control after 2025.

 

Refsnyder, especially if we add another OF'er, or Rafaela earns a slot on the 26.

 

Also, Mata may be traded before opening day (or DFA'd,) as he is out of options.

E Valdez, since we do not need a platoon DH.

Slaten is Rule 5 and may be traded or "traded for," so we can demote im to AAA.

 

Yoshida and or Story, depending on how their value changes and how well Mayer is doing.

 

Walter and or Murphy.

 

Criswell and or Kelly.

 

Trade or DFA:

Jacques

Dalbec

DHam

Heineman

R Gonzalez

[mvp 78]

If Story bounces back and garners any interest that would take his full contract, I'd trade him no matter what Mayer is looking like.

 

If Yoshida bounces back, I'm holding onto him.

 

Refsnyder and McGuire really wouldn't bring back much of a return except MiLB depth. There is a chance they move Wong instead as his framing is just awful and he can't really hit.

 

Also, depending on how Yorke and Grissom play, there could be a move with one of the two of them. It's not out of the realm of possibility that the future of the team is Mayer at SS and Story back at 2B too.

[Bellhorn04]

One of the main MLB writers (don't remember which) stated that the Sox need to clear Jansen's salary if they want to sign Montgomery. They can sign Montgomery and still be under the CBT. Jansen's salary is off the books next year. How does that make any sense?

 

It only makes sense if the payroll budget for tax purposes this year is in fact etched in stone at let's say 200 million.

 

Which would mean any number of lies about the budget have been told us, of course.

[mvp 78]

It only makes sense if the payroll budget for tax purposes this year is in fact etched in stone at let's say 200 million.

 

Which would mean any number of lies about the budget have been told us, of course.

 

Cots has them at 190M (47M under the CBT). That's still 25M under the 215M budget that we thought the dumb Sox were under this season (why???). If they clear Jansen, it leaves 41M under 215M (63M under the CBT). Like what the f*** are we even talking about? As long as they are under the CBT, shouldn't it be fine??? If they trade Jansen, they could have enough to sign Snell and Montgomery and be under the CBT!!!!!!!!