Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[moonslav59]

Load up in the rotation, tinker in the pen, add some defense on the field. The sox have the deepest but not the highest number of holes to fill

 

Add two solid SP'ers and there is no need to tinker with the pen, except maybe trade a RHP for a LHP.

 

We need one big RHB (CF or 2B, maybe RF, if we trade Dugo.)

 

The D will be better without any outside additions: Story at SS, Rafaela/Abreu in CF (not Duran), Duran & Ref in LF (not Yoshi).

 

We have just 3 major holes, but yes, they are very deep holes.

 

Other teams have more holes, but they look shallower.

 

[Maxbialystock]

Every Sox ring team was very different than the others. 2004 and 2007 were the closest.

 

Teams win the WS using various methods.

 

Trying to come up with similar teams as we had before might work very well, or not. The 2021 team is the one you choose to try and copy?

 

How about 2004: Pedro 33 GS, Schill 32 GS (Lowe, Wake & Arroyo all over 29 GS)

2007: Schill 24, Beckett 30 (Dice K and Wake over 31)

2013: Lester 33, Lackey 29 (Dempdter & Douby 27+) Buch with an awesome 16

2018: Sale 27, Price 30, Porcello 33, ERod 23 & Nate with a big 11.

 

Yes, we had hitting, too, but the rings come with aces, as in plural. We have none, now.

 

I'm not against aces. Far from it. As you say, they can make a big difference, especially if your goal is winning the WS. So your recitation of aces past is spot on.

 

I picked 2021 because it was just 2 seasons ago and is therefore relevant to where the Sox are right now, because I think 93 wins in 2024 is worthwhile goal (and the WS might not be realistic), and because I see some parallels but also some big differences.

 

And to me the two rotations, 2021 and 2023, are remarkably similar despite the plethora of injuries in 2023. Indeed, if you remove just Eovaldi from 2021, the 2023 rotation is clearly better than 2021.

 

On the other hand, the lineups, the bats, are vastly different. The good one, 2021, had a bunch of righty bats--which, I hasten to add/emphasize, DID NOT INCLUDE MOOKIE BETTS. The not so good one, 2023, had a bunch of lefty bats.

 

So to me it's pretty obvious the Sox need more righty bats than they had this season and that fixing that should have as much emphasis as getting one or two reliable starters.

 

One other difference between 2021 and 2023. 2021's payroll was the 6th biggest in MLB. 2023's is ranked 15th. So, just as you have said several times, the Sox can afford to spend more to fix the pitching and hitting.

 

And one other similarity between 2021 and 2023. Lousy defense. 2021's was ranked 29th with a team fielding percentage of .981. They committed 107 errors. The 2023 Sox finished 28th with 102 errors and a fielding percentage of .982.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Add two solid SP'ers and there is no need to tinker with the pen, except maybe trade a RHP for a LHP.

 

We need one big RHB (CF or 2B, maybe RF, if we trade Dugo.)

 

The D will be better without any outside additions: Story at SS, Rafaela/Abreu in CF (not Duran), Duran & Ref in LF (not Yoshi).

 

We have just 3 major holes, but yes, they are very deep holes.

 

Other teams have more holes, but they look shallower.

 

It may be prudent not to automatically assume our veteran bullpen saviors will repeat the same success they had this year when they're a year older.

 

Anyone watching the playoffs on TV may not be as dizzy as this viewer, but every contender seems to have an assembly line of primetime relievers who all throw over a hundred...miles per hour...

[a700hitter]

[h=2]Red Sox Fire Pitching Coach Dave Bush

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/10/red-sox-fire-pitching-coach-dave-bush.html[/h]The rest of the coaching staff and the manager need to go too.

[moonslav59]

I'm not against aces. Far from it. As you say, they can make a big difference, especially if your goal is winning the WS. So your recitation of aces past is spot on.

 

I picked 2021 because it was just 2 seasons ago and is therefore relevant to where the Sox are right now, because I think 93 wins in 2024 is worthwhile goal (and the WS might not be realistic), and because I see some parallels but also some big differences.

 

And to me the two rotations, 2021 and 2023, are remarkably similar despite the plethora of injuries in 2023. Indeed, if you remove just Eovaldi from 2021, the 2023 rotation is clearly better than 2021.

 

On the other hand, the lineups, the bats, are vastly different. The good one, 2021, had a bunch of righty bats--which, I hasten to add/emphasize, DID NOT INCLUDE MOOKIE BETTS. The not so good one, 2023, had a bunch of lefty bats.

 

So to me it's pretty obvious the Sox need more righty bats than they had this season and that fixing that should have as much emphasis as getting one or two reliable starters.

 

One other difference between 2021 and 2023. 2021's payroll was the 6th biggest in MLB. 2023's is ranked 15th. So, just as you have said several times, the Sox can afford to spend more to fix the pitching and hitting.

 

And one other similarity between 2021 and 2023. Lousy defense. 2021's was ranked 29th with a team fielding percentage of .981. They committed 107 errors. The 2023 Sox finished 28th with 102 errors and a fielding percentage of .982.

 

Using errors and Flg% is near meaningless.

 

Our D was way worse, this year.

[Old Red]

[h=2]Red Sox Fire Pitching Coach Dave Bush

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/10/red-sox-fire-pitching-coach-dave-bush.html[/h]The rest of the coaching staff and the manager need to go too.

 

Cora’s in charge now, so I don’t think he’ll fire himself.

[moonslav59]

It may be prudent not to automatically assume our veteran bullpen saviors will repeat the same success they had this year when they're a year older.

 

Anyone watching the playoffs on TV may not be as dizzy as this viewer, but every contender seems to have an assembly line of primetime relievers who all throw over a hundred...miles per hour...

 

The old guys may finally decline, and that is not a long shot.

 

I do think having a rotation that actually eats innings and set up guys that can go 2-4 IP, often would take a lot of heat off Martin and Jansen.

 

Long Relief: Houck, Crawford, Whitlock (Maybe Pivetta, if we add 3 SP and Sale is healthy) Murphy, Walter, Gambrell and Wikelman in reserve

7th-8th RP: Winckowski, Schreiber, Bernardino (maybe Joely, if we take the option) Kelly, Robertson and Mata in reserve.

8th-9th RP: Jansen & Martin

 

It's an awesome pen, on paper, but of course, anything can go wrong.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I'm not against aces. Far from it. As you say, they can make a big difference, especially if your goal is winning the WS. So your recitation of aces past is spot on.

 

I picked 2021 because it was just 2 seasons ago and is therefore relevant to where the Sox are right now, because I think 93 wins in 2024 is worthwhile goal (and the WS might not be realistic), and because I see some parallels but also some big differences.

 

And to me the two rotations, 2021 and 2023, are remarkably similar despite the plethora of injuries in 2023. Indeed, if you remove just Eovaldi from 2021, the 2023 rotation is clearly better than 2021.

 

On the other hand, the lineups, the bats, are vastly different. The good one, 2021, had a bunch of righty bats--which, I hasten to add/emphasize, DID NOT INCLUDE MOOKIE BETTS. The not so good one, 2023, had a bunch of lefty bats.

 

So to me it's pretty obvious the Sox need more righty bats than they had this season and that fixing that should have as much emphasis as getting one or two reliable starters.

 

One other difference between 2021 and 2023. 2021's payroll was the 6th biggest in MLB. 2023's is ranked 15th. So, just as you have said several times, the Sox can afford to spend more to fix the pitching and hitting.

 

And one other similarity between 2021 and 2023. Lousy defense. 2021's was ranked 29th with a team fielding percentage of .981. They committed 107 errors. The 2023 Sox finished 28th with 102 errors and a fielding percentage of .982.

 

Hey, Max! If you're watching the AL playoffs on TV, you must be loving the Rangers: unbeaten so far in the postseason, with their league-leading offense -- and a bullpen this season that has more blown saves than actual saves! Then again, they also have the AL's best defense...

 

But one guy I'd take in a heartbeat -- if Tex would ever part with him -- is Evan Carter: drafted out of a NJ high school in 2020 -- 33 picks after Nick Yorke -- nicknamed "Full Count Carter" for his selective strike zone coverage, fast runner, good outfielder; how much could a guy like this help a batting order in front of Casas... would Duran and Yoshida be a good offer? Ha

[dgalehouse]

It sure looks like Cora has emerged pretty much unscathed from the past two disastrous seasons. He looks to be in very good standing with ownership. He obviously won out over Bloom. Whoever gets Bloom's job is not going to be able to select a new manager.

[mvp 78]

It sure looks like Cora has emerged pretty much unscathed from the past two disastrous seasons. He looks to be in very good standing with ownership. He obviously won out over Bloom. Whoever gets Bloom's job is not going to be able to select a new manager.

 

Maybe because the new GM/CBO is already in house?

[Old Red]

It sure looks like Cora has emerged pretty much unscathed from the past two disastrous seasons. He looks to be in very good standing with ownership. He obviously won out over Bloom. Whoever gets Bloom's job is not going to be able to select a new manager.

 

Kennedy was asked about that more than once at the year end press conference, and Kennedy lined of hemmed, and hawed at the answer.

[Old Red]

Maybe because the new GM/CBO is already in house?

 

I agree, and someone else will be named to dot the I, and cross the t’s.

[Tedballgame]

Add two solid SP'ers and there is no need to tinker with the pen, except maybe trade a RHP for a LHP.

 

We need one big RHB (CF or 2B, maybe RF, if we trade Dugo.)

 

The D will be better without any outside additions: Story at SS, Rafaela/Abreu in CF (not Duran), Duran & Ref in LF (not Yoshi).

 

We have just 3 major holes, but yes, they are very deep holes.

 

Other teams have more holes, but they look shallower.

 

 

They also need to add some heart and grit because this year's team didn't have it.

[Maxbialystock]

Using errors and Flg% is near meaningless.

 

Our D was way worse, this year.

 

Let's try this. Can we agree Story, whose DWAR was +1.0 this season, is the best defensive SS the Sox had this year or any season going back to 2014? Can we also agree that SS is a key position on defense?

 

If we can agree on those two points, consider the following. The game log on Story says that he played in 43 games for the Sox and that the Sox won 18 of those games and lost 25.

[notin]

Using errors and Flg% is near meaningless.

 

Our D was way worse, this year.

 

Agreed.

 

Errors and fielding percentage only count the balls your players actually get to. If Cora told his infielders to only catch pop ups and let all the ground balls go through, his team would have a great fielding percentage and very few errors. Would that mean they had better defense?

[moonslav59]

Let's try this. Can we agree Story, whose DWAR was +1.0 this season, is the best defensive SS the Sox had this year or any season going back to 2014? Can we also agree that SS is a key position on defense?

 

If we can agree on those two points, consider the following. The game log on Story says that he played in 43 games for the Sox and that the Sox won 18 of those games and lost 25.

 

I give up.

 

We had one of the best hitting SSs in MLB, last year and won the same 78 games.

 

We could go on like this forever, with neither proving anything.

[dgalehouse]

Baseball is a team sport. You can't just pinpoint one reason for losing. Watching the team this season, it was apparent that they just did not play good baseball. They could never quite put all aspects together. Every time they looked like they had it all together they backslid. As a team, they simply were just not good enough.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Story's '23 dWAR was 1.0 with a .986 fielding %. Last year, Bogaerts' dWAR was 1.4 with a .983.

 

Story wasn't quite "phenomenal" -- as described by employees in the NESN booth -- nor did he make much difference in wins and losses in the tank stretch.

 

Bogaerts led the '22 Sox with 5.9 WAR, and wasn't "brutal, horrible, pitiful" or whatever other adjective fanalytics used to blame the season on him.

 

Pitching is why the Red Sox finished last. It's always the reason a Boston team sucks. But poorly-constructed pitching staffs were a staple of the Bloom Era, in all areas at one time or another: bullpen, rotation, waiver wire bargain bin dumpster diving DFAed rehabbing rejects, and zero deadline recruits of MLB mettle to stop ensuing spirals.

[moonslav59]

Baseball is a team sport. You can't just pinpoint one reason for losing. Watching the team this season, it was apparent that they just did not play good baseball. They could never quite put all aspects together. Every time they looked like they had it all together they backslid. As a team, they simply were just not good enough.

 

Yup. Every part of the team, except maybe the pen went into long funks. The D sucked all year long!

 

The bats carried us for a while.

The rotation carried us for a while, even during a few "pen games," but the weaknesses finally doomed us. There were too many to overcome, even if we made a deadline trade or two.

[oldtimer]

Yup. Every part of the team, except maybe the pen went into long funks. The D sucked all year long!

 

The bats carried us for a while.

The rotation carried us for a while, even during a few "pen games," but the weaknesses finally doomed us. There were too many to overcome, even if we made a deadline trade or two.

 

The majority of our team by position, including the starting pitching rated below average last season. It's difficult to see how they could be expected to make the playoffs with below average performances. I agree with those who feel we need to make major upgrades, particularly with some of our field positions and the starting pitching. MLBB is a very competitive business, so I don't expect the new GM, along with the front office to make a major jump in one year, but would like to see progress toward that end in 2024. I don't believe that our front office under Bloom was making significant progress and as a result he was rightly let go.

[Old Red]

Story's '23 dWAR was 1.0 with a .986 fielding %. Last year, Bogaerts' dWAR was 1.4 with a .983.

 

Story wasn't quite "phenomenal" -- as described by employees in the NESN booth -- nor did he make much difference in wins and losses in the tank stretch.

 

Bogaerts led the '22 Sox with 5.9 WAR, and wasn't "brutal, horrible, pitiful" or whatever other adjective fanalytics used to blame the season on him.

 

Pitching is why the Red Sox finished last. It's always the reason a Boston team sucks. But poorly-constructed pitching staffs were a staple of the Bloom Era, in all areas at one time or another: bullpen, rotation, waiver wire bargain bin dumpster diving DFAed rehabbing rejects, and zero deadline recruits of MLB mettle to stop ensuing spirals.

 

Red Sox SS were 27 in OPS this past year for you OPS people. Story didn’t help much there. Bogey didn’t have a great season either, but he was 7th in OPS.

[moonslav59]

Red Sox SS were 27 in OPS this past year for you OPS people. Story didn’t help much there. Bogey didn’t have a great season either, but he was 7th in OPS.

 

Thanks.

 

We'd have never guessed such a wide disparity.

[a700hitter]

It sure looks like Cora has emerged pretty much unscathed from the past two disastrous seasons. He looks to be in very good standing with ownership. He obviously won out over Bloom. Whoever gets Bloom's job is not going to be able to select a new manager.

Maybe he will get to pick out the garbage cans.

[Old Red]

Let's try this. Can we agree Story, whose DWAR was +1.0 this season, is the best defensive SS the Sox had this year or any season going back to 2014? Can we also agree that SS is a key position on defense?

 

If we can agree on those two points, consider the following. The game log on Story says that he played in 43 games for the Sox and that the Sox won 18 of those games and lost 25.

 

Maybe if Story had brought his bat to some of those games, and actually used it the Red Sox might have won more games. Story Land was closed most of the time.

[notin]

Let's try this. Can we agree Story, whose DWAR was +1.0 this season, is the best defensive SS the Sox had this year or any season going back to 2014? Can we also agree that SS is a key position on defense?

 

If we can agree on those two points, consider the following. The game log on Story says that he played in 43 games for the Sox and that the Sox won 18 of those games and lost 25.

 

Seriously? Is there a point here? Are we desperately trying to prove defense doesn’t matter by citing the rotation and performance of ONE PLAYER and stating team record hinges solely on that?

 

Hey here’s some stats

 

Triston Casas first half OPS: .728 Sox first half record: 48-43

Triston Casas second half OPS: 1.034. Sox second half record: 30-41

 

By that logic, offense doesn’t matter!!

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Maybe he will get to pick out the garbage cans.

 

If only they used a telescope to steal signs from a window above centerfield, with buzzers to notify players via underground lines installed by hired electricians -- like the New York Giants did to win the pennant in 1951 on Bobby Thomson's home run (the Shot Heard Round the World, the most famous HR in baseball history)...

 

... then maybe it wouldn't be such a "scandal" to those who really care, and could spend their time instead interpreting the "infield fly rule" and calling the baseball police on players pulling the hidden-ball trick and attempting to steal bases.

[cp176]

The majority of our team by position, including the starting pitching rated below average last season. It's difficult to see how they could be expected to make the playoffs with below average performances. I agree with those who feel we need to make major upgrades, particularly with some of our field positions and the starting pitching. MLBB is a very competitive business, so I don't expect the new GM, along with the front office to make a major jump in one year, but would like to see progress toward that end in 2024. I don't believe that our front office under Bloom was making significant progress and as a result he was rightly let go.

 

I agree, there are many issues with this team that still need to be dealt with. The obvious priority is pitching but being able to field and throw the ball obviously isn't something that can be taken for granted. In our infield, like it or not we have an average catcher and a ss that can make plays, after that is a guessing game. In the outfield, there have been so many different players mentioned that in my mind we are looking at a giant cluster... Throughout the course of this off season and thoughout the course of the '24 spring training, it would seem to me that if you are any good you would be able to make some decisions who your best players are and go with them. We don't need two or three different players at each position expecting playing time.

[moonslav59]

I agree, there are many issues with this team that still need to be dealt with. The obvious priority is pitching but being able to field and throw the ball obviously isn't something that can be taken for granted. In our infield, like it or not we have an average catcher and a ss that can make plays, after that is a guessing game. In the outfield, there have been so many different players mentioned that in my mind we are looking at a giant cluster... Throughout the course of this off season and thoughout the course of the '24 spring training, it would seem to me that if you are any good you would be able to make some decisions who your best players are and go with them. We don't need two or three different players at each position expecting playing time.

 

There are only 13 position players on a roster and 2 are catchers. That leaves 11 players for 7 positions. One or two platoons can work well, as the guy not starting can be a sub or PH'er, later in the game.

 

Our OF took a big step forward, in 2023, but part of that was Duvall and a guy, Yoshida, who may be the FT DH, next year. I'm fine starting the year with a Duran-Ref platoon in LF. Both hit over .800 with their splits. Handing CF to one or both of Rafaela or Abreu is a gamble, and there is a good chance one starts the season in AAA, unless we bring back Duvall or some other big RH bat. Dugo in RF is pretty steady and a decent defender. If we replace him with Duvall, we may not lose much on D.

 

I'm not see a platoon anywhere else. Both Urias and Reyes hit RH'd. I guess, if EValdez makes the 26, we could see a platoon at 2B, but the D would be severely weakened.

 

I think our catching core will be a plus on D, next year. The O is at question.

 

 

[notin]

There are only 13 position players on a roster and 2 are catchers. That leaves 11 players for 7 positions. One or two platoons can work well, as the guy not starting can be a sub or PH'er, later in the game.

 

Our OF took a big step forward, in 2023, but part of that was Duvall and a guy, Yoshida, who may be the FT DH, next year. I'm fine starting the year with a Duran-Ref platoon in LF. Both hit over .800 with their splits. Handing CF to one or both of Rafaela or Abreu is a gamble, and there is a good chance one starts the season in AAA, unless we bring back Duvall or some other big RH bat. Dugo in RF is pretty steady and a decent defender. If we replace him with Duvall, we may not lose much on D.

 

I'm not see a platoon anywhere else. Both Urias and Reyes hit RH'd. I guess, if EValdez makes the 26, we could see a platoon at 2B, but the D would be severely weakened.

 

I think our catching core will be a plus on D, next year. The O is at question.

 

 

 

Maybe we see an Abreu/Rafaela platoon in CF.

 

I hope we don’t. If either one isn’t starting in Boston, he should start in Worcester…

[moonslav59]

Maybe we see an Abreu/Rafaela platoon in CF.

 

I hope we don’t. If either one isn’t starting in Boston, he should start in Worcester…

 

The only way I'm okay with a CF platoon, is if Abreu plays enough games in LF and RF to help him grow, or I suppose, Rafaela plays some at 2B and back-up SS and is able to get over 500 PAs in the bigs.

 

I doubt we trade Ref, so I think only one rookie OF'er makes the 26 in April. If we trade Dugo, that changes. If we trade Dugo and add Duvall, we may view Duvall as a 120-130 game OF'er and not the 144-155 OF Dugo is. Maybe we keep both with Duvall and not Dugo.

 

With Yoshida at DH and maybe back up LF'er that would give us 6 players who primarily are OF/DHs. I don't see that happening.

 

Knowing the Sox, they will play Rafaela out of position for half the games.