A Realistic View of 2023: Part II

[redsoxrules]

Christian Arroyo DFA'D

[mvp 78]

Christian Arroyo DFA'D

 

f*** yes. Get it Bloom.

[mvp 78]

They activated Urias.

[Old Red]

Christian Arroyo DFA'D

 

Wow! First Kike, and now Arroyo gone how low can you go? Beat out by the likes of Chang, and Reyes.

[Dipre]

If we're not going to sign any pitchers to long-term contracts, what's our 2024 rotation going to look like?

 

Should Bloom just sign some more 1 year $10 million types?

 

They will sign Yama-San.

[Larry Cook]

Wow! First Kike, and now Arroyo gone how low can you go? Beat out by the likes of Chang, and Reyes.

 

Our infield defense has to be improved at some point

[moonslav59]

With Story returning, soon, the writing was on the wall for Arroyo.

 

Chang and Urias are better.

 

Reyes is a close call.

[moonslav59]

Our infield defense has to be improved at some point

 

The thing was, Arroyo was not even our 2nd, 3rd or 4th worst, defensively, of the 4 IF opening day starters.

[Bellhorn04]

And he's overpaid per FanGraphs. His AAV is 36M, but was only worth 26M last year.

 

Seriously? He's already at 26 mill this year. He was at 42 mill in 21. So far he's earning his pay, which is much more than you can say for most guys with monster contracts.

[Nick]

If we're not going to sign any pitchers to long-term contracts, what's our 2024 rotation going to look like?

 

Should Bloom just sign some more 1 year $10 million types?

 

Sale

Bello

Crawford

Houck

Whitlock

 

I hope he goes after the Japanese pitcher. The phenom.

[Old Red]

Sale

Bello

Crawford

Houck

Whitlock

 

I hope he goes after the Japanese pitcher. The phenom.

Counting on Sale, Whitlock, or Houck again sounds more than risky to me.

[Nick]

Counting on Sale, Whitlock, or Houck again sounds more than risky to me.

 

We need back up plan, A, B & C.

[moonslav59]

We need back up plan, A, B & C.

 

IMO, we need 2-3 new starters, and Sale, Whitlock and Houck are the "back-up plans."

 

Whitlock and Houck should be in the pen, all year, with their roles clearly defined starting in November.

 

Sale can remain a possible big plus, but counting on him and planning on him to get more than 1 GS would be a mistake.

 

I'll settle for 2 new solid SP'ers, but it will likely be one.

 

SP1 _____

SP2 Bello

SP3 _____

SP4 Crawford

SP5 Pivetta

SP6 Sale, Walter, Drohan, Mata...

 

Closer Jansen

RP2 Martin

RP3 Winckowski

RP4 Schreiber

RP5 Murphy

RP6 Bernardino

RP7 Joely or Bleier

RP8 Robertson, Mills, Kelly...

 

C Wong, McGuire

1B Casas

2B Urias, EValdez

SS Story,Chang

3B Devers

LF ______, Refsnyder

CF Duran, Rafaela

RF Verdugo, Abreu

DH Masataka, Dalbec

 

[Old Red]

IMO, we need 2-3 new starters, and Sale, Whitlock and Houck are the "back-up plans."

 

Whitlock and Houck should be in the pen, all year, with their roles clearly defined starting in November.

 

Sale can remain a possible big plus, but counting on him and planning on him to get more than 1 GS would be a mistake.

 

I'll settle for 2 new solid SP'ers, but it will likely be one.

 

SP1 _____

SP2 Bello

SP3 _____

SP4 Crawford

SP5 Pivetta

SP6 Sale, Walter, Drohan, Mata...

 

Closer Jansen

RP2 Martin

RP3 Winckowski

RP4 Schreiber

RP5 Murphy

RP6 Bernardino

RP7 Joely or Bleier

RP8 Robertson, Mills, Kelly...

 

C Wong, McGuire

1B Casas

2B Urias, EValdez

SS Story,Chang

3B Devers

LF ______, Refsnyder

CF Duran, Rafaela

RF Verdugo, Abreu

DH Masataka, Dalbec

 

Agree 100% on Whit , and Houck in the pen.

[notin]

IMO, we need 2-3 new starters, and Sale, Whitlock and Houck are the "back-up plans."

 

Whitlock and Houck should be in the pen, all year, with their roles clearly defined starting in November.

 

Sale can remain a possible big plus, but counting on him and planning on him to get more than 1 GS would be a mistake.

 

I'll settle for 2 new solid SP'ers, but it will likely be one.

 

SP1 _____

SP2 Bello

SP3 _____

SP4 Crawford

SP5 Pivetta

SP6 Sale, Walter, Drohan, Mata...

 

Closer Jansen

RP2 Martin

RP3 Winckowski

RP4 Schreiber

RP5 Murphy

RP6 Bernardino

RP7 Joely or Bleier

RP8 Robertson, Mills, Kelly...

 

C Wong, McGuire

1B Casas

2B Urias, EValdez

SS Story,Chang

3B Devers

LF ______, Refsnyder

CF Duran, Rafaela

RF Verdugo, Abreu

DH Masataka, Dalbec

 

 

 

Whitlock in the pen, yes.

 

Houck can be in the rotation, and very likely will be. He’s not on the IL for any reason but a fluke play…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

IMO, we need 2-3 new starters, and Sale, Whitlock and Houck are the "back-up plans."

 

Whitlock and Houck should be in the pen, all year, with their roles clearly defined starting in November.

 

Sale can remain a possible big plus, but counting on him and planning on him to get more than 1 GS would be a mistake.

 

I'll settle for 2 new solid SP'ers, but it will likely be one.

 

SP1 _____

SP2 Bello

SP3 _____

SP4 Crawford

SP5 Pivetta

SP6 Sale, Walter, Drohan, Mata...

 

Closer Jansen

RP2 Martin

RP3 Winckowski

RP4 Schreiber

RP5 Murphy

RP6 Bernardino

RP7 Joely or Bleier

RP8 Robertson, Mills, Kelly...

 

C Wong, McGuire

1B Casas

2B Urias, EValdez

SS Story,Chang

3B Devers

LF ______, Refsnyder

CF Duran, Rafaela

RF Verdugo, Abreu

DH Masataka, Dalbec

 

 

Was one name accidentally omitted from relievers...

 

In the biggest series of the summer so far -- vs. the closest team we have a chance of catching for the wild card -- the Jays and Sox turned to recent bullpen acquisitions in the opener.

 

Toronto trusted new closer Jordan Hicks and his 105-mph fastball. Boston brought in Mauricio Llovera...

 

When Bloom labels his own team as underdogs, what does that say about the architect of those dogs?

[Old Red]

Whitlock in the pen, yes.

 

Houck can be in the rotation, and very likely will be. He’s not on the IL for any reason but a fluke play…

 

How about Sale in the BP? Then it’s not as big a deal when he goes on the IL?

[Bellhorn04]

Was one name accidentally omitted from relievers...

 

In the biggest series of the summer so far -- vs. the closest team we have a chance of catching for the wild card -- the Jays and Sox turned to recent bullpen acquisitions in the opener.

 

Toronto trusted new closer Jordan Hicks and his 105-mph fastball. Boston brought in Mauricio Llovera...

 

When Bloom labels his own team as underdogs, what does that say about the architect of those dogs?

 

The Jays trade for Hicks is a fair one to look at in terms of "why didn't Bloom do something like that"? Possible answers that are all open to scrutiny:

 

1) In spite of the 105 MPH fastball, Hicks's overall numbers are spotty (hefty walk rate).

2) The Jays gave up 2 starting pitching prospects. I have no idea if they're any more than lottery tickets.

3) Hicks is strictly a rental.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The Jays trade for Hicks is a fair one to look at in terms of "why didn't Bloom do something like that"? Possible answers that are all open to scrutiny:

 

1) In spite of the 105 MPH fastball, Hicks's overall numbers are spotty (hefty walk rate).

2) The Jays gave up 2 starting pitching prospects. I have no idea if they're any more than lottery tickets.

3) Hicks is strictly a rental.

 

Which team looks like it's trying to make the playoffs this year -- the one that just traded for an MLB closer and shortstop (to replace their injured regular), or the one that traded for a DFAed reliever and an infielder from the minors?

[Randy Red Sox]

i fully expect Bloom to sign 1-2 more veteran SP on 1 yr deals with a VERY SLIGHT chance the Sox take a run at the Japanese SP IN FA. If it is not obvious to all by now Bloom is counting on building through the farm and low-mid cost 1-2 yr deals.

IMO, we need 2-3 new starters, and Sale, Whitlock and Houck are the "back-up plans."

 

Whitlock and Houck should be in the pen, all year, with their roles clearly defined starting in November.

 

Sale can remain a possible big plus, but counting on him and planning on him to get more than 1 GS would be a mistake.

 

I'll settle for 2 new solid SP'ers, but it will likely be one.

 

SP1 _____

SP2 Bello

SP3 _____

SP4 Crawford

SP5 Pivetta

SP6 Sale, Walter, Drohan, Mata...

 

Closer Jansen

RP2 Martin

RP3 Winckowski

RP4 Schreiber

RP5 Murphy

RP6 Bernardino

RP7 Joely or Bleier

RP8 Robertson, Mills, Kelly...

 

C Wong, McGuire

1B Casas

2B Urias, EValdez

SS Story,Chang

3B Devers

LF ______, Refsnyder

CF Duran, Rafaela

RF Verdugo, Abreu

DH Masataka, Dalbec

 

[Randy Red Sox]

Hicks is only a rental if the Jays don't sign him.

The Jays trade for Hicks is a fair one to look at in terms of "why didn't Bloom do something like that"? Possible answers that are all open to scrutiny:

 

1) In spite of the 105 MPH fastball, Hicks's overall numbers are spotty (hefty walk rate).

2) The Jays gave up 2 starting pitching prospects. I have no idea if they're any more than lottery tickets.

3) Hicks is strictly a rental.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

i fully expect Bloom to sign 1-2 more veteran SP on 1 yr deals with a VERY SLIGHT chance the Sox take a run at the Japanese SP IN FA. If it is not obvious to all by now Bloom is counting on building through the farm and low-mid cost 1-2 yr deals.

 

Speed of lightning, roar of thunder

Signing one-year pitching blunders

Underdog, underdog, underdog!

[moonslav59]

Whitlock in the pen, yes.

 

Houck can be in the rotation, and very likely will be. He’s not on the IL for any reason but a fluke play…

 

Yes. I'd rather we add 2 SP'ers over the winter, but said it would likely be only one, and that puts Houck into the rotation, unless someone unlikely takes his place. (Sale?)

 

I think it makes a lot of sense to continue to build up pen strength, and having Whitlock and Houck added to a pen bringing back Jansen, Martin, Wink, Schreiber and others. No more Jacques and Llovera types.

 

 

[moonslav59]

Was one name accidentally omitted from relievers...

 

In the biggest series of the summer so far -- vs. the closest team we have a chance of catching for the wild card -- the Jays and Sox turned to recent bullpen acquisitions in the opener.

 

Toronto trusted new closer Jordan Hicks and his 105-mph fastball. Boston brought in Mauricio Llovera...

 

When Bloom labels his own team as underdogs, what does that say about the architect of those dogs?

 

So, in today's game, when Hicks gets the day off and Jansen closes, will you flip your post and bash TOR's GM?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

So, in today's game, when Hicks gets the day off and Jansen closes, will you flip your post and bash TOR's GM?

 

We all appreciate Jansen, even when he said the bullpen needed help at the deadline. And Cora deserves a raise the way he's kept this club over .500 with the pitching staff he's been supplied with.

 

But there's no denying the reasons that in the first showdown with the team the Sox are chasing for the wild card, the first pitcher they had to bring in during a two-run game was Llovera.

 

Even you have posted for years that -- as a fan -- you wished and expected the CBO of the Red Sox to add more quality pitching. Be honest, were you happy and confident when Llovera took the mound in the 6th? Did you even feel a sense of irony when Toronto brought in Hicks vs. the Sox?

[moonslav59]

We all appreciate Jansen, even when he said the bullpen needed help at the deadline. And Cora deserves a raise the way he's kept this club over .500 with the pitching staff he's been supplied with.

 

But there's no denying the reasons that in the first showdown with the team the Sox are chasing for the wild card, the first pitcher they had to bring in during a two-run game was Llovera.

 

Even you have posted for years that -- as a fan -- you wished and expected the CBO of the Red Sox to add more quality pitching. Be honest, were you happy and confident when Llovera took the mound in the 6th? Did you even feel a sense of irony when Toronto brought in Hicks vs. the Sox?

 

I did expect and hope we added a SP'er at the deadline- even two.

 

I think we could have afforded to part with a decent but not top prospect or two to get a rental or even splurge and get someone like Civale.

 

It's obvious the team management has placed the extended future plan as the top priority, and I'm not so sure that was a mistake, despite my differing opinion.

 

I think they viewed the imminent return of 2-3 pitchers and the recent return of Schreiber as being "enough" of a boost for the staff and the return of Reyes and then Story, plus the swap of Urias for Arroyo on the 40, as enough of a boost to the offense and defense.

 

I said this should be Bloom's "make or break" season, and I'm going to let it play out, before I jump all over him.

 

(It looks like he will be back, next year, regardless of this season's results, so he will likely get another "make or break" season or teo.)

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

So, in today's game, when Hicks gets the day off and Jansen closes, will you flip your post and bash TOR's GM?

 

I have actually praised the Jays GM as the anti-Bloom the past four years for constantly adding quality big league pitching. Signing Ryu, trading for Ray and Berrios, signing Gausman, Kikuchi, and Bassitt -- among others -- were all good additions to a legitimate starting rotation.

 

The Red Sox interns on the board will be quick to point out that Toronto hasn't won a playoff game with all those arms, and that is correct. I don't know why it hasn't worked out for the Jays, and I could care less (because I always root against Vlad and Monah).

 

But no one can bash the efforts of a front office that continually upgrades a pitching staff with good MLB pitchers.

[cp176]

i fully expect Bloom to sign 1-2 more veteran SP on 1 yr deals with a VERY SLIGHT chance the Sox take a run at the Japanese SP IN FA. If it is not obvious to all by now Bloom is counting on building through the farm and low-mid cost 1-2 yr deals.

 

I doubt that he does much to help us out over the winter. He may make a run at something flashy to keep interest up but signing quality top of the rotation guys costs more money than it appears is likely to be spent. Most people seem excited about what is getting stockpiled in the minors but how about the pitching?

[Bellhorn04]

I doubt that he does much to help us out over the winter. He may make a run at something flashy to keep interest up but signing quality top of the rotation guys costs more money than it appears is likely to be spent. Most people seem excited about what is getting stockpiled in the minors but how about the pitching?

 

I agree. The heat is on Bloom to address the starting pitching for 2024, and the answers aren't on the farm.

[moonslav59]

I have actually praised the Jays GM as the anti-Bloom the past four years for constantly adding quality big league pitching. Signing Ryu, trading for Ray and Berrios, signing Gausman, Kikuchi, and Bassitt -- among others -- were all good additions to a legitimate starting rotation.

 

The Red Sox interns on the board will be quick to point out that Toronto hasn't won a playoff game with all those arms, and that is correct. I don't know why it hasn't worked out for the Jays, and I could care less (because I always root against Vlad and Monah).

 

But no one can bash the efforts of a front office that continually upgrades a pitching staff with good MLB pitchers.

 

It seems obvious Sox management has placed winning "now," as in from mid 2019 to 2023, as a much lower priority than 2024 or 2025 and beyond.

 

I'm not so sure this was a choice made at the GM level.