A Realistic View at 2022: Part III

[Bellhorn04]

It is interesting to consider what the Red Sox media and fans would be saying right now if the Sox did the fire sale and were an additional 5-10 games under .500 right now. Would they still be screaming to Fire Bloom? Or would that depend on what we got back in the fire sale?

[moonslav59]

If we didn't have Sale and other guys expected back after the deadline I'd agree with the fire sale thing. Sale could have been a nice difference-maker. We'll never know.

 

Would trading Vaz and JD (with $2.4M) be a fire sale and a complete packing in of the season?

 

To many, just trading Vaz set the tone for giving up.

 

Personally, I'd have traded everything not nailed down to control beyond 2023, unless we were sure we'd make a strong run to keep them- like Kike and maybe Wacha.

 

I realize I was in the minority and am fine with others thinking that short-changing season ticket and pre-bought ticket fans is generally not a good business practice, but I see the longer term goals as being top priority, unless and until we look to be a top contender, again.

 

I didn't see this team, even with a healthy sale, Wacha, Hill, Kike and Strahm as being a top contender. (I'm not one who believes in the crapshoot playoff theory.)

[moonslav59]

It is interesting to consider what the Red Sox media and fans would be saying right now if the Sox did the fire sale and were an additional 5-10 games under .500 right now. Would they still be screaming to Fire Bloom? Or would that depend on what we got back in the fire sale?

 

Maybe some would be more understanding that the future looks brighter, but IMO, most would be pissed from the day of the fire sale until at least our first major winter addition.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It is interesting to consider what the Red Sox media and fans would be saying right now if the Sox did the fire sale and were an additional 5-10 games under .500 right now. Would they still be screaming to Fire Bloom? Or would that depend on what we got back in the fire sale?

 

Your first question is a good question; if Bloom cleaned house at the beginning of August, there'd be no veteran voices left in the clubhouse to complain about later cuts. And we'd all expect the team to suck, no matter what Sam Kennedy said.

 

I don't think the second question would be a determinant, since returns for JD, Nate and Hill wouldn't be much more than someone's #39 and #40 prospects, like in the Vaz trade. If Bogey agreed to be dealt, though, there'd probably be an uproar no matter what (even if we got someone's top 20 prospect)... unless Bloom then extended Devers, which I can never imagine him doing that far in advance, especially with what it will cost.

[cp176]

Maybe some would be more understanding that the future looks brighter, but IMO, most would be pissed from the day of the fire sale until at least our first major winter addition.

 

Since the return for making the trades would have been little, I'm thinking that fans would be less interested than they are now. As a fan, I'm not particularly interested in making decisions today that might make us better in what 2,3,4 years. The Red Sox are not my idea of buying and selling in the stock market. They are here for entertainment. If the product continues to suck, I'll hold my nose and use my time in other ways. that being said, I am still interested in watched Bello develop, and in seeing Sale return. I want him to prove the doubters wrong. That'll keep me watching for awhile.

[Bellhorn04]

Would trading Vaz and JD (with $2.4M) be a fire sale and a complete packing in of the season?

 

To many, just trading Vaz set the tone for giving up.

 

Some of us would argue that we actually upgraded over Vaz with McGuire.

 

It's very unlikely that any trade of JD to dump his salary would have resulted in an upgrade this year.

[Old Red]

Maybe some would be more understanding that the future looks brighter, but IMO, most would be pissed from the day of the fire sale until at least our first major winter addition.

 

Fire sale, fire sale. There was talk about having a fire sale before this season even started by some on here, because that to some I think would be more entertaining to be bad, so a fire sale could commence instead of having a year like last year.

[Bellhorn04]

Fire sale, fire sale. There was talk about having a fire sale before this season even started by some on here, because that to some I think would be more entertaining to be bad, so a fire sale could commence instead of having a year like last year.

 

The reason people were talking about a fire sale before the season was simply all the expiring contracts. They were an elephant in the room.

 

The team decided against a fire sale, and now they're getting criticized by some media and fans for not doing so. Color me shocked!

[moonslav59]

Some of us would argue that we actually upgraded over Vaz with McGuire.

 

It's very unlikely that any trade of JD to dump his salary would have resulted in an upgrade this year.

 

Agreed, but at the time of the trade, McGuire was hitting under .600 and had a checkered past.

 

I'm not sure how Dalbec, Pham, Hosmer, Almonte or maybe EValdez would have done at DH. JD has hit .706 since 8/2/22 with 3 HRs and 15 RBIs in 37 games/ 158 PAs.

 

Fans would not have been happy.

[Old Red]

The reason people were talking about a fire sale before the season was simply all the expiring contracts. They were an elephant in the room.

 

The team decided against a fire sale, and now they're getting criticized by some media and fans for not doing so. Color me shocked!

There were all these expiring contracts, because Bloom in his 3 years on the job let it get to this point. Yes I know DD signed the contracts, but couldn’t Bloom have done something like a trade, or two to alleviate the problem? I haven’t criticized Bloom, because I didn’t want no part of a fire sale, because the Sox were still in contention, and felt they owed the paying customers to still put their best players on the field.

[mvp 78]

The reason people were talking about a fire sale before the season was simply all the expiring contracts. They were an elephant in the room.

 

The team decided against a fire sale, and now they're getting criticized by some media and fans for not doing so. Color me shocked!

 

Uh ring a ding ding.

[Bellhorn04]

There were all these expiring contracts, because Bloom in his 3 years on the job let it get to this point. Yes I know DD signed the contracts, but couldn’t Bloom have done something like a trade, or two to alleviate the problem?

 

Trades could have been more of a problem than a cure.

 

The problem is that guys tend to decline toward the latter part of their contracts, while still making the same money.

 

I'm not blaming DD for the situation, it's just the way it worked out.

[moonslav59]

There were all these expiring contracts, because Bloom in his 3 years on the job let it get to this point. Yes I know DD signed the contracts, but couldn’t Bloom have done something like a trade, or two to alleviate the problem? I haven’t criticized Bloom, because I didn’t want no part of a fire sale, because the Sox were still in contention, and felt they owed the paying customers to still put their best players on the field.

 

He could have tried to trade JD or Bogey before they reached this point. That is a fair point, IMO. Maybe he was not aware of what future financial restraints were going to be, and JH told him not to worry about future spending, and then clamped down. It's hard to know.

 

In hindsight, he should have traded JD, but if he did before 2021, maybe we don't get as far as we did.

 

It's not an easy choice.

 

It's even harder to criticize without knowing all the aspects involved.

[Old Red]

He could have tried to trade JD or Bogey before they reached this point. That is a fair point, IMO. Maybe he was not aware of what future financial restraints were going to be, and JH told him not to worry about future spending, and then clamped down. It's hard to know.

 

In hindsight, he should have traded JD, but if he did before 2021, maybe we don't get as far as we did.

 

It's not an easy choice.

 

It's even harder to criticize without knowing all the aspects involved.

I agree, but now you’ve got all these expiring contracts, and aren’t going to get much, or anything for them when they go out the door except salary relief, which I guess is something.

[mvp 78]

I agree, but now you’ve got all these expiring contracts, and aren’t going to get much, or anything for them when they go out the door except salary relief, which I guess is something.

 

But even you said you didn't want a fire sale?

[moonslav59]

I agree, but now you’ve got all these expiring contracts, and aren’t going to get much, or anything for them when they go out the door except salary relief, which I guess is something.

 

I can't help but think Bloom would have been bashed harshly had he traded Bogey and or JD or Nate a year or two ago. Perhaps you would have been among the bashers, but only complaining about the return- not the trades, themselves.

 

Also, we may get some comp picks our of some of the expiring contracts.

 

Whoopdee-freakin-doo!

 

We should have traded at least JD and Nate at the deadline, if not earlier.

[vegasbob]

Regrettably Hosmer as a pickup has proven to be of no value on the field this late season. Bloom brought him over to patch the large defensive and offensive hole at 1B. His contract status , with SD on the hook for all but the minimum, does create some value, well except for Eric's bad back, a common malady to several Red Sox players this year. Bloom , like his team, is hitting about .240 this year on retentions, new moves, pick-ups and promotions from WooSox.

[Hugh2]

Regrettably Hosmer as a pickup has proven to be of no value on the field this late season. Bloom brought him over to patch the large defensive and offensive hole at 1B. His contract status , with SD on the hook for all but the minimum, does create some value, well except for Eric's bad back, a common malady to several Red Sox players this year. Bloom , like his team, is hitting about .240 this year on retentions, new moves, pick-ups and promotions from WooSox.

 

Hey .240 is average!!!! I would have taken that this year.

[Old Red]

I can't help but think Bloom would have been bashed harshly had he traded Bogey and or JD or Nate a year or two ago. Perhaps you would have been among the bashers, but only complaining about the return- not the trades, themselves.

 

Also, we may get some comp picks our of some of the expiring contracts.

 

Whoopdee-freakin-doo!

 

We should have traded at least JD and Nate at the deadline, if not earlier.

 

I’m always for trading guys if you can’t sign them, and that goes for Raffy too. I would have to see what the trade was to know if I would like it, or not. Yes there would have been complaints about Bogey being traded, but I think there will be more if he is not resigned depending on the offer, and the asking price.

[Old Red]

But even you said you didn't want a fire sale?

 

Bogey would have had to been traded before his 7th full year, so that wouldn’t have been a fire sale, or if it happened before this season even started. I didn’t want to give up the ship this August.

[mvp 78]

Bogey would have had to been traded before his 7th full year, so that wouldn’t have been a fire sale, or if it happened before this season even started. I didn’t want to give up the ship this August.

 

They could have still traded Eovaldi, JD and Vaz prior to this season. They probably would have traded Hill and Wacha if those two hadn't each hit the IL before the deadline.

[moonslav59]

I’m always for trading guys if you can’t sign them, and that goes for Raffy too. I would have to see what the trade was to know if I would like it, or not. Yes there would have been complaints about Bogey being traded, but I think there will be more if he is not resigned depending on the offer, and the asking price.

 

That goes for Betts, too, but I know your issue was about thye return not the idea of trading him.

 

I agree, if we are sure we will not re-sign these stars, we should trade them before they are just rentals (some on the IL.)

[Bellhorn04]

They could have still traded Eovaldi, JD and Vaz prior to this season. They probably would have traded Hill and Wacha if those two hadn't each hit the IL before the deadline.

 

But why would they trade Wacha and not JD? Based on Speier's article, Bloom wasn't trading JD unless somebody got stupid. I assume the same would have applied to Wacha.

[moonslav59]

Your first question is a good question; if Bloom cleaned house at the beginning of August, there'd be no veteran voices left in the clubhouse to complain about later cuts. And we'd all expect the team to suck, no matter what Sam Kennedy said.

 

I don't think the second question would be a determinant, since returns for JD, Nate and Hill wouldn't be much more than someone's #39 and #40 prospects, like in the Vaz trade. If Bogey agreed to be dealt, though, there'd probably be an uproar no matter what (even if we got someone's top 20 prospect)... unless Bloom then extended Devers, which I can never imagine him doing that far in advance, especially with what it will cost.

 

Abreu and Valdez were far from Houston's 39th and 40th prospects.

[Old Red]

They could have still traded Eovaldi, JD and Vaz prior to this season. They probably would have traded Hill and Wacha if those two hadn't each hit the IL before the deadline.

 

I agree. JD was coming off a 99 RBI year, and would have been more desirable then then at the trade deadline, but I think his salary would have scared some teams away.

[mvp 78]

But why would they trade Wacha and not JD? Based on Speier's article, Bloom wasn't trading JD unless somebody got stupid. I assume the same would have applied to Wacha.

 

In my scenario, JD would have already been traded prior to the season.

[moonslav59]

In my scenario, JD would have already been traded prior to the season.

 

But, how many posters suggested we do that after 2021 (or before?)

 

We'd probably have had to include some money just to get nothing back, or give a prospect similar to the Ottavino & German for nothing deal.

 

Would it have been worth trading JD + $6M for nothing, and then sign Schwarber? Even in hindsight, I'm not so sure.

 

At any rate Sox Nation would have been irate!

[Maxbialystock]

In my scenario, JD would have already been traded prior to the season.

 

Good for you, but I don't see that making much difference.

 

Weak pitching destroyed this season for the Sox.

[mvp 78]

But, how many posters suggested we do that after 2021 (or before?)

 

We'd probably have had to include some money just to get nothing back, or give a prospect similar to the Ottavino & German for nothing deal.

 

Would it have been worth trading JD + $6M for nothing, and then sign Schwarber? Even in hindsight, I'm not so sure.

 

At any rate Sox Nation would have been irate!

 

Why would the Sox get nothing back after including money to trade JD to another team. He was a 3 win player last year and the DH expanded to the whole league this offseason, which most teams thought was going to happen before it actually did.

[mvp 78]

Good for you, but I don't see that making much difference.

 

Weak pitching destroyed this season for the Sox.

 

It would have gotten them under the salary cap.