Fire Bloom .

[moonslav59]

If Bloom were to be fired I suspect the real reason will be because he did not make the playoffs yet he went over the lux tax threshold.

 

...but then again, Bloom came 2 games from making the WS with last year's under the tax line team, so maybe he sees it as being about even, but with the farm still improving.

 

Who knows. There are certainly reasons to fire the whole bunch and start over, but I seriously doubt JH sees it that way. I'd guess he's not even thought of canning Bloom. Just a guess.

 

[Elktonnick]

...but then again, Bloom came 2 games from making the WS with last year's under the tax line team, so maybe he sees it as being about even, but with the farm still improving.

 

Who knows. There are certainly reasons to fire the whole bunch and start over, but I seriously doubt JH sees it that way. I'd guess he's not even thought of canning Bloom. Just a guess.

 

Who knows what JH thinks. He may not know himself.

[Old Red]

It was arguably the worse farm in MLB. They were ranked dead last or bottom 5 by every publication.

 

Whoopee! Whenever one of Bloom’s prospects comes up, and produces in a Red Sox uniform I’ll get excited, but minor league rankings don’t guarantee success, or lack of success for the big club.

[dgalehouse]

I don't know if John Henry still has the same amount of interest in the Red Sox. Very seldom do we see or hear from him .

[Hugh2]

Whoopee! Whenever one of Bloom’s prospects comes up, and produces in a Red Sox uniform I’ll get excited, but minor league rankings don’t guarantee success, or lack of success for the big club.

 

Just laying out the facts. Sox system was widely regarded the worse or among the worse before Bloom took over.

[Old Red]

I don't know if John Henry still has the same amount of interest in the Red Sox. Very seldom do we see or hear from him .

 

That’s why I keeping this is not the same JH as it was say 10 years ago, or when he bought the Sox yet some on here think they can predict what he is going to do on past tendencies.

[Old Red]

Just laying out the facts. Sox system was widely regarded the worse or among the worse before Bloom took over.

 

Understood, and I guess I was just saying that DD did not empty everything like some claim.

[Hugh2]

Understood, and I guess I was just saying that DD did not empty everything like some claim.

 

It doesn’t matter what DD did. He emptied the farm to win now, and he did. Mission accomplished, the farm system exists to supplement the big league club and that includes trading away your prospects.

 

FWIW DD traded away the right guys, most of the players he traded away never hit. Regardless, Bloom was brought in to rebuild the farm.

[Old Red]

It doesn’t matter what DD did. He emptied the farm to win now, and he did. Mission accomplished, the farm system exists to supplement the big league club and that includes trading away your prospects.

 

FWIW DD traded away the right guys, most of the players he traded away never hit. Regardless, Bloom was brought in to rebuild the farm.

I’m more concerned with what the big league club is doing myself, and I believe as most of the Ave fan is, and not what the ranking is of the farm.

Edited August 19, 2022 by Old Red

[Elktonnick]

That’s why I keeping this is not the same JH as it was say 10 years ago, or when he bought the Sox yet some on here think they can predict what he is going to do on past tendencies.

Look what John Henry has done in the past ten or so years. In 2011, he bought a virtually bankrupt Liverpool team of the English Premier League and turned it into a championship. Now estimated to be the second most valuable team in the English Premier League and 5th worldwide valued at 4 billion usd about the same as the Red Sox. In 2020 or thereabouts he tried to totally reform world soccer that bid failed. So he turned his attention to buying the Penguins of the NHl for 900 million. Now he lets LeBron James buy in to the Fenway Sports Group in preparation for a bid for NBA franchise.

Yes so I guess Henry does have other interests beside the Red Sox.

[moonslav59]

It doesn’t matter what DD did. He emptied the farm to win now, and he did. Mission accomplished, the farm system exists to supplement the big league club and that includes trading away your prospects.

 

FWIW DD traded away the right guys, most of the players he traded away never hit. Regardless, Bloom was brought in to rebuild the farm.

 

What about the examples of not trading key farm pieces away? The fact that DD's prospects traded away did not amount to what was perhaps expected does not mean that is the winning formula every time.

 

Should we have traded Betts, Bogey and others when they were just farm pieces?

 

Should we trade away Mayer, casas, Bello, Bleis and others, because they might be the next Moncadas, Guerras and Allens?

 

What if they turn into the next Betts, Bogey and Devers?

 

It's not an easy question to answer, and yes, Bloom was brought in, like Ben, to build the farm, not to trade it away.

 

It's obvious JH is in on that part of the plan. The losing now is up for debate.

[Hugh2]

I’m more concerned with what the big league club is doing myself, and I believe as most of the Ave fan is, and not what the ranking is of the farm.

 

Me too, the farm system exists to supplement the big league club. That’s why I care about it. A deeper farm gives you more chances for the ext Raffy Devers, more ammunition to trade for a TOTRS, or to make moves at the deadline. You do much less of that with a weak farm. So I care so much about the big league club…I care about the farm

[sk7326]

An average OFer and a couple of junk prospects came back.

 

Given the need - or the ownership mandate to deal Price - it's what it is. While scuttlebutt indicates there might not have been a ton offers - what we don't know is the premises the Red Sox were using. If the trade being pitched was the "David Price salary dump featuring Mookie Betts", it is not difficult to figure out why the market was limited.

 

Now, ownership treating the luxury tax like a hard cap is both bad and typical of the industry - and the reason for all of the labor strife.

[Old Red]

Me too, the farm system exists to supplement the big league club. That’s why I care about it. A deeper farm gives you more chances for the ext Raffy Devers, more ammunition to trade for a TOTRS, or to make moves at the deadline. You do much less of that with a weak farm. So I care so much about the big league club…I care about the farm

Ok we’ll agree on that.

[Hugh2]

What about the examples of not trading key farm pieces away? The fact that DD's prospects traded away did not amount to what was perhaps expected does not mean that is the winning formula every time.

 

Should we have traded Betts, Bogey and others when they were just farm pieces?

 

Should we trade away Mayer, casas, Bello, Bleis and others, because they might be the next Moncadas, Guerras and Allens?

 

What if they turn into the next Betts, Bogey and Devers?

 

It's not an easy question to answer, and yes, Bloom was brought in, like Ben, to build the farm, not to trade it away.

 

It's obvious JH is in on that part of the plan. The losing now is up for debate.

 

I think to some extent, there was some luck involved as well. As a general rule of thumb, you don’t trade away a top prospect above AA that plays a position you know will soon be vacant. E.G. Tristan Casas

[moonslav59]

I think to some extent, there was some luck involved as well. As a general rule of thumb, you don’t trade away a top prospect above AA that plays a position you know will soon be vacant. E.G. Tristan Casas

 

Of course, some luck is involved. Either way, the farm is often valuable for providing cost-controlled talent to the big clubs with limited budgets while also offering opportunities to use to trade for key veteran pieces, when needed.

 

A healthy balance is the goal, which mean trying not to totally or nearly empty the farm, at any given time, even if it seems like a ring is just a key piece or two away.

 

You strive for quality and quantity to maximize your chances more will rise to the top and b e helpful or alluring enough to trade for major help, when needed.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

You wonder if things will get ugly enough for the Red Sox this year, convincing John Henry to part ways with Bloom after the season. It is so hard to say, Henry is (and has been) so mercurial with his GMs.

[Hugh2]

You wonder if things will get ugly enough for the Red Sox this year, convincing John Henry to part ways with Bloom after the season. It is so hard to say, Henry is (and has been) so mercurial with his GMs.

 

I think Bloom was hired with the mandate to rebuild the organization and then build a winner. I think to date he’s done his job.

 

I would expect, or at least desire John Henry to check in and see if Bloom intends on turning on the heat. I suspect Bloom has at least until the end of 2023.

[Old Red]

I’m glad Bloom was in the stands tonight to watch this mess he created. I don’t think JH hired him to produce a s*** Show like this. I know some posters on here will say, but we might get better in 2024, or 2025. Edited August 20, 2022 by Old Red

[redsoxrules]

Next year there's no excuse. A lot of money coming off the books. If he doesn't produce a contending team he needs to go

[moonslav59]

Next year there's no excuse. A lot of money coming off the books. If he doesn't produce a contending team he needs to go

 

Flashpoint 2023!

[Old Red]

Two things have become painfully clear.

 

1. The Red Sox can’t handle the pressure of getting above 500.

 

2. The Red Sox aren’t embarrassed enough to sit at the kiddie table, and watch the O’s at the grownups table.

 

Having said this the LAST in the Div, and last Wild Card spot standings update. 4 games back in the L column for the Div, and 6 games back in the L column for the last Wild Card spot.

[Hugh2]

Flashpoint 2023!

 

I think Bloom is going to surprise everyone with the moves he makes this off-season, for better or worse.

 

He keeps on being labeled as a small market GM managing the Sox like a small market team who will not go out and make the big moves. It seems this opinion is largely shared by those who want Bloom fired and those who are giving him more patience alike. I think, or at least I hypothesize you’re all wrong.

 

Bloom was brought in here to mix small market ideals with a big budget team. To model an organization like LA (maybe not quite as high a payroll but who knows). Let’s look at what LA does, they stay competitive by adding payroll, but they surprisingly always have a strong farm and mix in their talent with young players as well. Despite a lower draft position year after year, they do this by keeping the farm intact and superior scouting. The first thing you have to do to get to this point is rebuild the farm. In 3 years we’ve gone from the worse farm system to a top 10 system in baseball.

 

So this is where we are at, no disagreements here. You can’t argue that Bloom has accomplished the mandate of rebuilding the system. After that a divergence occurs, many fans can’t stomach several seasons in a row of non-competivness (We did almost make it to the World Series last year).

 

Now we find Bloom in a unique situation. People on both sides don’t think he has the balls to make big moves because he’s a small market GM. Well, here’s my argument to the contrary. He WAS a small market GM, he came into Boston and had no payroll flexibility, his job was to shed payroll and build up the farm. Mission accomplished.

 

But now he’s walking into an off-season with 100 million to spend. Premium free agents who play positions we have big holes at, and a year in which a large number of other big market teams are up against the luxury tax and seemingly don’t have the ability to be as active as us. Bloom has never had this opportunity before, and I think it’s unwise to assume he’s going to run the Sox like the TB rays this off-season. I think this off-season is the year they make their moves.

 

If I’m wrong, I’d be perfectly content moving over to the fire Bloom side. But he has a golden opportunity to build a great team this off-season. Let’s see what happens.

[jad]

I think Bloom was hired with the mandate to rebuild the organization and then build a winner. I think to date he’s done his job.

 

I would expect, or at least desire John Henry to check in and see if Bloom intends on turning on the heat. I suspect Bloom has at least until the end of 2023.

 

??? (I missed the 'winner' Bloom built, and I fail to see who it is Bloom will turn the heat on. Players to accept half their market value? Other GM's?)

[Hugh2]

??? (I missed the 'winner' Bloom built, and I fail to see who it is Bloom will turn the heat on. Players to accept half their market value? Other GM's?)

 

I was specific to say “to date” and not mission accomplished. Read my last comment above.

[jad]

I was specific to say “to date” and not mission accomplished. Read my last comment above.

 

I still fail to see the winner 'to date' and you also did not explain exactly how he can 'turn the heat on'. Is this by getting hard-nosed during negotiations? (do you think this will make players accept less money to play in Boston? I don't.)

[Hugh2]

I still fail to see the winner 'to date' and you also did not explain exactly how he can 'turn the heat on'. Is this by getting hard-nosed during negotiations? (do you think this will make players accept less money to play in Boston? I don't.)

 

Again, let me reiterate. I never said he accomplished the mission. He’s succeeded at rebuilding the farm. That’s it. Winning is obviously the objective, and I ponder with a rebuilt farm and payroll flexibility for the first time in years what direction the team goes in this offseason.

[Bellhorn04]

I honestly think a lot of the so-called "Bloom supporters" will withdraw their support if he lets them down in 2023.

[cp176]

Flashpoint 2023!

 

A post that i can support! WAIT 'TILL NEXT YEAR.

 

It always made me look forward to the spring. 1967 came and screwed everything up.

[Bellhorn04]

A post that i can support! WAIT 'TILL NEXT YEAR.

 

It always made me look forward to the spring. 1967 came and screwed everything up.

 

Us old-time Sox fans waited till next year right up until 2004.