Fire Bloom .

[notin]

Just going by what I see posted here.

 

And that any devotion you don’t share must also be blind and irrational. Don’t forget that part…

[Bellhorn04]

Just going by what I see posted here.

 

And you read very selectively here.

[Old Red]

Not to mention, this board has a lot of Baseball Junkie diehard fans who post things on Saturday morning when no game is being played and who start threads in November and a December when baseball is months away and out of the mind of casual fans.

 

If you want to defend the viewpoint of Casual Joe Soxfan, this might not be the best forum…

Someone has to tell the other side, and that’s where the problems begin. I get opinions from all different sources, and venues, and most don’t jive with what’s on here. Bloom is a perfect example of that. Out in the majority of opinions I hear outside of here there isn’t much loyalty, and trust.

[Old Red]

I think that's nonsense, frankly.

 

Show me outside of here where it exists to the extent it does on here.

[Old Red]

I'm not so sure about that.

 

I agree, and more excuses will be made.

[dgalehouse]

I will say this , the mood of the many Sox fans that I know is very different than what is posted on here by about a half dozen folks who think that Bloom is doing well and being unfairly criticized . This is three years in . Sox Nation is restless. And I do get the sense that , should the team falter next year , we will hear more excuses and that 2024 is the big test. Again , just going by what I see on here and how much it contrasts to the feelings of most Sox fans.

[dgalehouse]

I agree, and more excuses will be made.

 

Amen . That is all we hear so far . I don't see it changing should the team struggle next year.

[Bellhorn04]

Show me outside of here where it exists to the extent it does on here.

 

I've seen and heard enough over the years to think that a large number of baseball fans know a fair amount about their team's top prospects.

[Bellhorn04]

I will say this , the mood of the many Sox fans that I know is very different than what is posted on here by about a half dozen folks who think that Bloom is doing well and being unfairly criticized . This is three years in . Sox Nation is restless. And I do get the sense that , should the team falter next year , we will hear more excuses and that 2024 is the big test. Again , just going by what I see on here and how much it contrasts to the feelings of most Sox fans.

 

We had a poll here on how Bloom is doing. 2 people voted great, 7 voted OK and 4 voted terrible. Yet you persist with this delusion that the board is overrun with blind Bloom followers.

 

Frankly I think it just makes things more fun for you here to keep talking about these blind followers that don't actually exist.

[Old Red]

I've seen and heard enough over the years to think that a large number of baseball fans know a fair amount about their team's top prospects.

 

I do too, and I look at the box scores every night, but it’s, because I like baseball of all levels, but it still doesn’t change my opinions on them.

[Old Red]

We had a poll here on how Bloom is doing. 2 people voted great, 7 voted OK and 4 voted terrible. Yet you persist with this delusion that the board is overrun with blind Bloom followers.

 

Frankly I think it just makes things more fun for you here to keep talking about these blind followers that don't actually exist.

Do you think the poll would have been different in a Red Sox Nation wide poll?

[Bellhorn04]

Do you think the poll would have been different in a Red Sox Nation wide poll?

 

Quite possible. But that's not the point. The point is that we only had 2 people here vote great. So all this stuff about Talksox being full of Bloom pom-pom wavers is BS.

[Old Red]

I will say this , the mood of the many Sox fans that I know is very different than what is posted on here by about a half dozen folks who think that Bloom is doing well and being unfairly criticized . This is three years in . Sox Nation is restless. And I do get the sense that , should the team falter next year , we will hear more excuses and that 2024 is the big test. Again , just going by what I see on here and how much it contrasts to the feelings of most Sox fans.

 

Some on here cling to the narrative that this team wasn’t worth going all in for this year. How does waiting 2 months for a legit 1B, or a RHH OF that should have been gotten back in March going all in? Instead we watched the Franchy Clown Show at 1B, and Duran looking like he was trying to catch butterflies in the OF. The excuses were that Casas was plan B, but even though he was injured months ago Bloom sat on his ass, and did nothing to improve the team until the trade deadline. 2 months went by. Then some will say no trades are made in June-July. Excuse after excuses, and a last place team is the result.

[dgalehouse]

We had a poll here on how Bloom is doing. 2 people voted great, 7 voted OK and 4 voted terrible. Yet you persist with this delusion that the board is overrun with blind Bloom followers.

 

Frankly I think it just makes things more fun for you here to keep talking about these blind followers that don't actually exist.

 

Not overrun . Not blind followers. Just about a half dozen folks who are almost always defending Bloom and all of his moves or lack of moves. To me , results matter. And when you are the guy in charge , it's on you. The Sox are in last place. Going by what I have seen posted so far , my feeling is that another bad season in 2023 will not change their opinion. They thought Bloom was a good hire , they like his philosophy and they are not about to change. I just want to see the team win . I hope the Sox win the A.L. East next year and all the debate goes away. I really don't enjoy this stuff.

[Old Red]

Not overrun . Not blind followers. Just about a half dozen folks who are almost always defending Bloom and all of his moves or lack of moves. To me , results matter. And when you are the guy in charge , it's on you. The Sox are in last place. Going by what I have seen posted so far , my feeling is that another bad season in 2023 will not change their opinion. They thought Bloom was a good hire , they like his philosophy and they are not about to change. I just want to see the team win . I hope the Sox win the A.L. East next year and all the debate goes away. I really don't enjoy this stuff.

Well said, and winning does seem to make bad thoughts go away, where losing brings them all out.

[Bellhorn04]

Not overrun . Not blind followers. Just about a half dozen folks who are almost always defending Bloom and all of his moves or lack of moves.

 

And way more than half a dozen who are constantly bashing him. But you still feel the need to go after the half dozen.

[Elktonnick]

Re farm systems, I wonder how many Astros fans are upset that they have the 27th ranked farm system and wish to trade places with Orioles with the number 1 ranked Farm System. Also how soon will the Os make the World Series 5, 10 15 or 20 years?

[notin]

Re farm systems, I wonder how many Astros fans are upset that they have the 27th ranked farm system and wish to trade places with Orioles with the number 1 ranked Farm System. Also how soon will the Os make the World Series 5, 10 15 or 20 years?

 

How many of the same Astros fans like having Altuve, Bergman, Framber Valdez, Urquidy, Javier, Peña, Tucker, and McCullers and liked having Springer and Correa, all of whom are products of that farm system? Not to mention Yordan Alvarez, whom the team acquired by trading RHP Josh Fields and then played in that farm system?

[Old Red]

How many of the same Astros fans like having Altuve, Bergman, Framber Valdez, Urquidy, Javier, Peña, Tucker, and McCullers and liked having Springer and Correa, all of whom are products of that farm system? Not to mention Yordan Alvarez, whom the team acquired by trading RHP Josh Fields and then played in that farm system?

 

They did a lot of tanking to get a lot of those guys that I wouldn’t want any part in doing.

[notin]

How many of the same Astros fans like having Altuve, Bergman, Framber Valdez, Urquidy, Javier, Peña, Tucker, and McCullers and liked having Springer and Correa, all of whom are products of that farm system? Not to mention Yordan Alvarez, whom the team acquired by trading RHP Josh Fields and then played in that farm system?

 

If your goal is to state how unimportant the farm is, the Astros might not be the best choice. In fact, that’s probably closer to the success the Sox want to emulate…

[notin]

They did a lot of tanking to get a lot of those guys that I wouldn’t want any part in doing.

 

And that was all years ago while they maintain a rather lengthy run of success.

 

If you prefer the “heavy spending on free agents” method, that’s what got the Sox where they are now…

[Old Red]

If your goal is to state how unimportant the farm is, the Astros might not be the best choice. In fact, that’s probably closer to the success the Sox want to emulate…

 

So tank to get good players?

[dgalehouse]

And way more than half a dozen who are constantly bashing him. But you still feel the need to go after the half dozen.

 

I am not going after anybody. Why do you keep saying that? And using terms like " blind " and "irrational " . Those are not my words. It just confirms my feeling that any criticism of Bloom is taken personally by some of his supporters. And that's okay. I think , when a team is in last place at this point of the season , the GM is fair game. That is all I am saying . I am definitely not " going after " you or anyone else. Please knock that stuff off.

[Old Red]

And that was all years ago while they maintain a rather lengthy run of success.

 

If you prefer the “heavy spending on free agents” method, that’s what got the Sox where they are now…

That’s the narrative that is most used on here even though Bloom has been in charge 3 years now. I don’t think it was all heavy spending that got the Red Sox championships, and it’s not all heavy spending that has gotten the Red Sox in last place in the division, which if things stay the way they are now would be something like 5 times in 11 years. Bloom is in charge now, and he is responsible.

[notin]

So tank to get good players?

 

No the part they’ve been doing the last 6 years where they keep bringing up good and occasionally great players who make minimum wage.

 

I think the Cardinals method is the ultimate goal…

[notin]

That’s the narrative that is most used on here even though Bloom has been in charge 3 years now. I don’t think it was all heavy spending that got the Red Sox championships, and it’s not all heavy spending that has gotten the Red Sox in last place in the division, which if things stay the way they are now would be something like 5 times in 11 years. Bloom is in charge now, and he is responsible.

 

So the fact that over 50% of the Sox’ payroll is tied up in contracts from previous GMs is his responsibility? And that only one of them (Bogaerts) is producing like he did when he signed that deal?

 

The whole “he’s had three years” logic is just clueless. To retain star players now, 10-12 year contracts are not uncommon and 6-7 year deals are the bare minimum. To think even a 6 year deal gets erased in 3 years shows very poor math.

 

Maybe it’s the “most used narrative” because it has a lot of truth to it. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t change that…

[Old Red]

So the fact that over 50% of the Sox’ payroll is tied up in contracts from previous GMs is his responsibility? And that only one of them (Bogaerts) is producing like he did when he signed that deal?

 

The whole “he’s had three years” logic is just clueless. To retain star players now, 10-12 year contracts are not uncommon and 6-7 year deals are the bare minimum. To think even a 6 year deal gets erased in 3 years shows very poor math.

 

Maybe it’s the “most used narrative” because it has a lot of truth to it. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t change that…

Clueless? Clueless? Bloom has had 3 years to deal with with some of these contracts, so sounds like Bloom is the one who is clueless. Deny, deny, accuse, and when all else fails blame DD. Come on man! Just because you like it doesn’t change it either. We’ve accomplished nothing in the back, and forth, and nobody is going to change their mind. I’m gone. You can have the last word.

Edited August 20, 2022 by Old Red

[vegasbob]

For the arguments that "Red Sox Nation" as a whole has possibly different opinions than a majority of this generally well informed and rational thread, just try reading some of the most idiotic comments on the Sox as a whole, Cora, Bloom and the players on the numerous Red Sox posts on Facebook . The overall universe of most marginal sports followers are supremely reactive and ignorant of any logical processes in business or baseball talent. It is depressing to think that these folks have even the first clue about what they see.

 

Our current group on TalkSox , with a variety of opinions, is far more informative and useful in considering the management and performance of this team.. All of you, keep it up and express whatever you think. It all adds to the fabric of being a Red Sox fan.

[notin]

I am not going after anybody. Why do you keep saying that? And using terms like " blind " and "irrational " . Those are not my words. You did agree to them when first used.

It just confirms my feeling that any criticism of Bloom is taken personally by some of his supporters. And that's okay. I think , when a team is in last place at this point of the season , the GM is fair game. That is all I am saying . I am definitely not " going after " you or anyone else. Please knock that stuff off.

 

You did agree to them when first used.

 

Here’s the thing - your whole mantra lately comes across as “there are people who don’t share my view of being a fan and therefore these people are stupid sheep.” This has been pointed out repeatedly and you have been persistent for weeks regardless.

 

Personally, I don’t think that’s what you want to say, but it is what myself (and apparently others to some degree) are reading. So rather than persisting with your Bloom Appreciation Society rhetoric that keeps generating these same responses, why not another approach? Expecting the world to change to meet the message won’t happen for any of us…

[notin]

Clueless? Clueless? Bloom has had 3 years to deal with with some of these contracts, so sounds like Bloom is the one who is clueless. Deny, deny, accuse, and when all else fails blame DD. Come on man! Just because you like it doesn’t change it either. We’ve accomplished nothing in the back, and forth, and nobody is going to change their mind. I’m gone. You can have the last word.

 

Deal? How? This isn’t Yahoo fantasy baseball where you have that one guy who accepts any trade, no matter how dumb, as long as you buy him a six pack.

 

He did move half of Price, but what aspect of Chris Sale’s deal is remotely tradable? Ever since Bloom took over, the man has pitched 48 IP across three years, had TJ surgery and multiple breaks and fractures. And he was still owed the full $145 million. That deal sound tradable to you? If you think so, please get an MLB GM position immediately and call Bloom.

 

Or JD Martinez? Fans on this board complain about his lack of productivity but think he’s tradable?

 

Eovaldi might have been tradable at one point, but who would have advocated for that? Right now, he’s just a guy that lets opposing hitters absolutely tee off on him like he’s throwing BP.

 

Maybe he could have moved Bogaerts. That should help.