Fire Bloom .

[notin]

Actually 2 full years of control and 3 playoff seasons for Soto.

 

Reportedly a lot more teams were in on Soto than Betts. Sox took what I thought was the better of the TWO offers…

[moonslav59]

Reportedly a lot more teams were in on Soto than Betts. Sox took what I thought was the better of the TWO offers…

 

I agree.

 

One interesting "what if" might be concerning the Sale extension. Had we not extended Sale, might we have offered more and kept Betts?

 

We'd probably still have to have dumped Price, somehow.

[sk7326]

It's absurd to think Bloom never tried to get more than he did.

 

He traded 1 year of Betts, that turned out to be a 60 game season, plus $16M x 3, that turned to 2 years, of Prices contract for Verdugo, who already has a higher WAR than that one year of Betts and 2 prospects.

 

I had hoped he'd get more, too, but the reported SDP deal looked no better, and the fact is, dumping Price was a major aspect of that trade.

 

I always said it was a solid baseball deal considering ownership wanted him to drive Price to the airport. I will still lament the lack of All-Star upside that came back.

[a700hitter]

I always said it was a solid baseball deal considering ownership wanted him to drive Price to the airport. I will still lament the lack of All-Star upside that came back.

An average OFer and a couple of junk prospects came back.

[notin]

I agree.

 

One interesting "what if" might be concerning the Sale extension. Had we not extended Sale, might we have offered more and kept Betts?

 

We'd probably still have to have dumped Price, somehow.

 

I got the impression Sale and Bogaerts were signed once negotiations with Betts broke down. I think it was a choice of Bogaerts and Sale, or just Betts…

[Old Red]

An average OFer and a couple of junk prospects came back.

 

And some on here said Bloom couldn’t have done better. Maybe he couldn’t, but then again maybe another GM could have.

[moonslav59]

An average OFer and a couple of junk prospects came back.

 

That's how much your guy Price brought down the return.

 

Remember when you said the Dodgers made out on getting Price for "only" $16M a year?

[moonslav59]

I got the impression Sale and Bogaerts were signed once negotiations with Betts broke down. I think it was a choice of Bogaerts and Sale, or just Betts…

 

Yes, I think that was the order of choices, but it's still a big what if...

[Old Red]

That's how much your guy Price brought down the return.

 

Remember when you said the Dodgers made out on getting Price for "only" $16M a year?

 

So your admittedly acknowledgment finally coming though that it was not a good return.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Like most Red Sox fans, I would rejoice if Theo returned. Even though he has made mistakes--big mistakes with some contracts--and never proved he could win a championship on a small payroll, he is still a talented GM. However, Theo seems to be on to other things and probably isn't interested in being a GM anymore.

 

The Braves are an excellent organization. They have been able to develop stud players, just remarkable, and unlike the Rays, the Braves actually won a World Series. If the Red Sox dump Bloom, the Braves might be a good organization to find the next Red Sox GM.

[notin]

So your admittedly acknowledgment finally coming though that it was not a good return.

 

I think everyone wanted better. Problem is, this was the best possible return. (Although I maintain to this day keeping Brusdar Graterol was better.)

 

So do you agree or disagree this was the best possible return?

[Bellhorn04]

I think everyone wanted better. Problem is, this was the best possible return. (Although I maintain to this day keeping Brusdar Graterol was better.)

 

So do you agree or disagree this was the best possible return?

 

The real "problem" as far as getting big talent back was that we were dumping $72 million of payroll (Betts $27/Price $45).

[Old Red]

I think everyone wanted better. Problem is, this was the best possible return. (Although I maintain to this day keeping Brusdar Graterol was better.)

 

So do you agree or disagree this was the best possible return?

 

Nobody knows for sure what was offered to Bloom, and nobody knows for sure what another GM like DD could have gotten. I would have rather seen DD make the trade, and I think he would have done better.

[Old Red]

The real "problem" as far as getting big talent back was that we were dumping $72 million of payroll (Betts $27/Price $45).

 

If it was a different team it would have been a different argument, but the Dodgers can afford anything like when they bailed the Red Sox out before with a 1B, and a LF.

[Old Red]

A big step back last night. Here we go with the last place in the Div, and last Wild Card spot standing update. 3 games back in the L column for last place in the Div, and 6 games back in the L column for the last Wild Card spot. Also I guess staying at 500 was to much pressure, and they fell back below that last night. Tough stretch coming up, so things are not looking to promising.

[Bellhorn04]

If it was a different team it would have been a different argument, but the Dodgers can afford anything like when they bailed the Red Sox out before with a 1B, and a LF.

 

Even the Dodgers have limits. They let Seager go, they let Jansen go.

[Old Red]

Even the Dodgers have limits. They let Seager go, they let Jansen go.

 

Jansen may cost them come postseason time.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I think everyone wanted better. Problem is, this was the best possible return. (Although I maintain to this day keeping Brusdar Graterol was better.)

 

So do you agree or disagree this was the best possible return?

 

Never, for 12 years of Betts. But since Price had to be included or no deal, getting a young MLB-ready regular in Verdugo was as good as it gets.

 

Luckily, Bloom listened to me and insisted on Verdugo, even though most scribes (professional and talksoxual) suggested less attractive tradebait like AJ Pollock or Clint Frazier (good thing it wasn't the latter, since he no longer even exists on baseball.ref).

 

Some can dispute this all day, but I'm in the camp that believes LA wanted Mookie so badly, that a good pitching prospect like Gonsolin or Gray might've been pried loose... if not for the Price cement shoes sinking the return.

[Bellhorn04]

Some can dispute this all day, but I'm in the camp that believes LA wanted Mookie so badly, that a good pitching prospect like Gonsolin or Gray might've been pried loose... if not for the Price cement shoes sinking the return.

 

"Might" - not a very strong belief, then.

[Bellhorn04]

One thing I would love to know about the Betts trade is how seriously the Sox brass considered whether the Dodgers might sign him to an extension, or how much that possibility concerned them. Maybe they preferred he stay with an NL team so we wouldn't have to play against him in another uniform much, who knows.

[moonslav59]

The real "problem" as far as getting big talent back was that we were dumping $72 million of payroll (Betts $27/Price $45).

 

If we didn't dump that $72M, maybe we dump Betts and either Bogey or JD, or sign absolutely nobody else for a couple years (No Renfroe, Kike, Wacha...)

 

I keep saying "context," but for real, it's needed, here.

[moonslav59]

One thing I would love to know about the Betts trade is how seriously the Sox brass considered whether the Dodgers might sign him to an extension, or how much that possibility concerned them. Maybe they preferred he stay with an NL team so we wouldn't have to play against him in another uniform much, who knows.

 

I never thought of that. That might have been a minor consideration.

 

I also think Verdugo was pretty highly regarded, at the time, and was not some unproven prospects like so many here seem to abhor.

 

Here are his adjusted to 650 PAs numbers for his previous season, where he played 106 games:

 

.295 20 80 (.817 OPS)

 

Not bad for a 23 year old's first full look in the bigs.

 

His recent 2 year decline is hindsight. Fair game, yes, but at the time, he was highly regarded.

 

Gonsolin would have been a winner, but I doubt we had a chance for him. I don't think Bloom had an option to just say no to all offers and keep Betts. That seriously hampers all trade negotiations.

[Bobe2]

Wait. What side are you on?

 

All along you’ve accused Bloom and Henry of being cheap and not spending enough and advocating the Sox spend $300mill and calling out people who believe/know the payroll has limits as “wanting to save Henry’s money”, but now you think large contracts will ruin baseball?

 

Heck even I don’t like large contracts because they limit the Sox by tying up the budget in expensive, aging, and declining players. But I never went so far as to say they would eventually ruin baseball…

 

I think long contracts are a hindrance to a team, it’s not so much the amount it’s the length, a 6 year $300 million contract is much easier to digest than a 12 year $300 million contract, I firmly believe that if you want to win the owners need to open their wallets, the simple solution would have been to pay the 6 home grown guys we had but ownership chose not to spend, these big contracts are an evil that all the owners brought upon themselves now they have to live with them or hide behind the salary cap. Has anyone heard what’s up with the Downs injury

[Bobe2]

These huge long contracts are now a part of baseball and everyone has to live with them, that doesn’t mean we have to like them. Edited August 19, 2022 by Bobe2

[moonslav59]

These huge long contracts are now a part of baseball and everyone has to live with them, that doesn’t mean we have to like them.

 

All that really matters is if you can probably win without one.

[Bobe2]

All that really matters is if you can probably win without one.

 

I don’t know if that’s possibly to do year in and year out, oh you can catch lightning in a bottle now and then, the 2013 team in my opinion was an over achiever, the teams with the best players will be the teams making the most WS appearances

[Hugh2]

The only way you can win without one is if you have that level of talent under team control. You're never going to have that unless you spend time building up your farm system. Two conflicting concepts for many posters in here.

[moonslav59]

I don’t know if that’s possibly to do year in and year out, oh you can catch lightning in a bottle now and then, the 2013 team in my opinion was an over achiever, the teams with the best players will be the teams making the most WS appearances

 

I'm not sure you can without one, either. I was for extending Betts to 12 or even 14 years (at a lower AAV).

 

I'm Mr. "Devers Forevers!"

 

I do think a team can probably win with 3-4 Story type contracts and no huge ones.

[moonslav59]

The only way you can win without one is if you have that level of talent under team control. You're never going to have that unless you spend time building up your farm system. Two conflicting concepts for many posters in here.

 

I'm not sure our farm will ever reach the level of the Braves and Rays, but trying to get close is not a bad idea. It needs to be given some time, too. Impatience is not a virtue.

 

The Astros, who are another team that added a Rays guy as their GM seem to be winning while keeping a steady flow of top young talent filling in where a free agent leaves. My guess is, some Astros fan lamented trading Josh Fields for some "unproven prospects" like Yordan Alvarez back at the 2016 deadline. It took over 2 years for that fan to regret the lamenting. They signed Framber Valdez and Urquidy as Amateir Free Agents. They replaced Springer with Tucker- a high draft pick they got for tanking. They replaced Correa with Pena, who seems to be holding his own. Sure, the fans whined a bit, down here, but winning sure shuts them up, quickly.

 

[Bobe2]

I'm not sure you can without one, either. I was for extending Betts to 12 or even 14 years (at a lower AAV).

 

I'm Mr. "Devers Forevers!"

 

I do think a team can probably win with 3-4 Story type contracts and no huge ones.

 

You usually get a pretty good player for $140 million three or 4 of those is a start where the Sox usually fall down is they don’t spend enough on the supporting players they try and make do with Cordero and Dalbec types