Fire Bloom .

[mvp 78]

I'm not sure you can without one, either. I was for extending Betts to 12 or even 14 years (at a lower AAV).

 

I'm Mr. "Devers Forevers!"

 

I do think a team can probably win with 3-4 Story type contracts and no huge ones.

 

Players don’t want the lower AAV (see: Juan Soto).

[Hugh2]

I don't want longer years either. Even if you get a little bit more payroll flexibility do you really want to be paying a guy 14 years from now? Betts could fall off a cliff in 2-3 years for all we know, even if he still has a really good career he could slow down in 6 and you'd still have to live with millions every year for more than half a decade. If I'm giving a guy 12 years he better be in his mid 20's.

[moonslav59]

You usually get a pretty good player for $140 million three or 4 of those is a start where the Sox usually fall down is they don’t spend enough on the supporting players they try and make do with Cordero and Dalbec types

 

The problem is more about the winter spending budget given the GM. Had Bloom not signed Story, he'd have been able to spend more on the supporting cast. Had he signed 2 Stories, we'd have had no money to spend on anything else: no Wacha, no Hill, No Strahm.

 

Ideally, you put yourself in a situation where you fill in those support roles at the deadline, assuming the ones there before the deadline didn't suck so much, you are out of it by July.

 

Honestly, I'm fine with people saying Bloom was wrong about Dalbec, JBJ, Duran and Diekman. I can't argue he was right on any of them, and I disliked the JBJ and Diekman deals from the start, but I do not think he can really be blamed for starting the season with a young 1Bman who had a career OPS over .800 with our best prospect, who was deemed ML ready, as his depth. Casas got hurt, and Cordero was horrible at 1B. Call it making excuses, but I give Bloom a pass on the effort and an F on the hindsight report card.

 

The Kike and Arroyo injuries really hurt the whole OF plan and the 2B depth after Story went down. All happening at the same time is unfortunate, and again, maybe called excuse-making, but it's hard for a GM on a restricted budget to plan for your top 3 secondbasemen to all be hurt at the same time, as well as 4 of your 5 SP'ers- not even counting Paxton's non return in July/August, as thought..

 

[moonslav59]

Players don’t want the lower AAV (see: Juan Soto).

 

Tell that to Mookie who took 12 years with deferred money and a tax number under $30M a year.

[moonslav59]

I don't want longer years either. Even if you get a little bit more payroll flexibility do you really want to be paying a guy 14 years from now? Betts could fall off a cliff in 2-3 years for all we know, even if he still has a really good career he could slow down in 6 and you'd still have to live with millions every year for more than half a decade. If I'm giving a guy 12 years he better be in his mid 20's.

 

I see both sides of the coin having solid merit.

 

GMs are damned if they do and bashed if they dont.

Edited August 19, 2022 by moonslav59

[JDavis76]

I don't want longer years either. Even if you get a little bit more payroll flexibility do you really want to be paying a guy 14 years from now? Betts could fall off a cliff in 2-3 years for all we know, even if he still has a really good career he could slow down in 6 and you'd still have to live with millions every year for more than half a decade. If I'm giving a guy 12 years he better be in his mid 20's.

 

And with the way contracts are trending, using your plan, the red sox will never sign a star player ever again.

[Bobe2]

The problem is more about the winter spending budget given the GM. Had Bloom not signed Story, he'd have been able to spend more on the supporting cast. Had he signed 2 Stories, we'd have had no money to spend on anything else: no Wacha, no Hill, No Strahm.

 

Ideally, you put yourself in a situation where you fill in those support roles at the deadline, assuming the ones there before the deadline didn't suck so much, you are out of it by July.

 

Honestly, I'm fine with people saying Bloom was wrong about Dalbec, JBJ, Duran and Diekman. I can't argue he was right on any of them, and I disliked the JBJ and Diekman deals from the start, but I do not think he can really be blamed for starting the season with a young 1Bman who had a career OPS over .800 with our best prospect, who was deemed ML ready, as his depth. Casas got hurt, and Cordero was horrible at 1B. Call it making excuses, but I give Bloom a pass on the effort and an F on the hindsight report card.

 

The Kike and Arroyo injuries really hurt the whole OF plan and the 2B depth after Story went down. All happening at the same time is unfortunate, and again, maybe called excuse-making, but it's hard for a GM on a restricted budget to plan for your top 3 secondbasemen to all be hurt at the same time, as well as 4 of your 5 SP'ers- not even counting Paxton's non return in July/August, as thought..

 

 

There is no doubt that injuries hurt but that’s not the whole problem, this was a pretty good core but the supporting cast was terrible, the trade for JBJ was unnecessary and hurt the outfield they needed a first baseman an outfielder and some sort of a closer, they didn’t need to empty the bank on these players just better players and I don’t think that we would be in last place,

[Old Red]

There is no doubt that injuries hurt but that’s not the whole problem, this was a pretty good core but the supporting cast was terrible, the trade for JBJ was unnecessary and hurt the outfield they needed a first baseman an outfielder and some sort of a closer, they didn’t need to empty the bank on these players just better players and I don’t think that we would be in last place,

 

Bingo! You nailed it. To bad Bloom didn’t get it, but I guess he was to busy being mesmerized watching Franchy at 1B, and Duran trying to track, and catch fly balls in the outfield.

[moonslav59]

There is no doubt that injuries hurt but that’s not the whole problem, this was a pretty good core but the supporting cast was terrible, the trade for JBJ was unnecessary and hurt the outfield they needed a first baseman an outfielder and some sort of a closer, they didn’t need to empty the bank on these players just better players and I don’t think that we would be in last place,

 

Again, with a limited spending budget, how can a GM sign the big named players you want, granted Story's signing has not worked well, so far, while also adding solid supporting players at cut-rate prices?

 

I'd say Bloom did a pretty good job adding Schreiber and refsnyder for nothing but min salary costs. He added Wacha, Hill and Strahm as supporting players. Yes, he added Diekman, too, but hye was able to dump him for a decent back-up catcher/support. He later added Hosmer and Pham as support. He started with Arroyo as IF support and Casas as the expected 1B support, if needed.

 

It's actually been the vets that have let this team down, namely Bogey, JD, Dugo, Nate and Barnes. The supporting cast has kept our hopes barely alive.

 

Vets:

Only Devers and Vaz improved on O from 2021.

Only Houck stayed even from 2021.

All other vets declined from last year.

 

If we can strain to name the heroes for 2022, besides Devers, who has struggled in August, they would all be from the supporting cast:

 

Refsnyder

Schreiber

Arroyo (in just a few games, he's given more than several regulars have all year)

Pham

McGuire

 

Wacha (in March, many felt he'd be moved to the pen when Sale or Paxton returned)

Hill

Crawford (has been huge!)

Strahm

Wink & Danish to a small extent

 

 

[moonslav59]

There is no doubt that injuries hurt but that’s not the whole problem, this was a pretty good core but the supporting cast was terrible, the trade for JBJ was unnecessary and hurt the outfield they needed a first baseman an outfielder and some sort of a closer, they didn’t need to empty the bank on these players just better players and I don’t think that we would be in last place,

 

You don't get a good closer without hitting the bank hard.

The 1B need was not apparent until June.

[dgalehouse]

Injuries are a loser's excuse. Just win.

[Bobe2]

You don't get a good closer without hitting the bank hard.

The 1B need was not apparent until June.

 

I saw a need for a first baseman last year. And so did the Sox but they let him walk

[Old Red]

You don't get a good closer without hitting the bank hard.

The 1B need was not apparent until June.

 

Excuse after excuse. You say the need for a legit 1B was not apparent until June, but why did Bloom wait until Aug to do something? Only then did he make a move, and that was only that SD was so desperate to get rid of Hosmer they practically gave him away. Otherwise we’d still probably watching Franchy, and Bobby V perform their magic act. The funny part is the more posters try to defend Bloom they make Bloom, and themselves look even worse by saying things like the need was not apparent for a 1B until June when Bloom let 2 months go by until he made a move. Hilarious to watch.

Edited August 19, 2022 by Old Red

[moonslav59]

I saw a need for a first baseman last year. And so did the Sox but they let him walk

 

Schwarber?

 

OK, we sign Schwarber and don't sign Wacha, Hill, Strahm and still spend more.

 

Or, we don't sign Story and go with Arroyo and Downs...oh wait...

 

I think expecting to give your top Prospect, Casas, a top 50 MLB prospect a shot before hitting the deadline was a decent plan in March.

 

You keep blaming Bloom for not spending what he wasn't given to spend.

 

It's easy to say we should have done _____, but not realize it would have meant not doing _____.

[Bobe2]

I didn’t mean to say he was the answer only that they recognized the need

[dgalehouse]

This is Bloom's third year at the helm . And the ship is floundering off course.

[Old Red]

Schwarber?

 

OK, we sign Schwarber and don't sign Wacha, Hill, Strahm and still spend more.

 

Or, we don't sign Story and go with Arroyo and Downs...oh wait...

 

I think expecting to give your top Prospect, Casas, a top 50 MLB prospect a shot before hitting the deadline was a decent plan in March.

 

You keep blaming Bloom for not spending what he wasn't given to spend.

 

It's easy to say we should have done _____, but not realize it would have meant not doing _____.

 

You come up with all these scenarios, but you have no idea what would have happened.

[moonslav59]

I didn’t mean to say he was the answer only that they recognized the need

 

The recognized the need in 2021, before casas was ready.

 

Sure, they knew 1B could be a trouble spot. We all did, but the plan to start with a career .804 1Bman and have your top ML ready prospects as his back-up was not some sort of gross dereliction of duty by Bloom.

 

As it turned out, the plan imploded, as did RF's, CF's and then 2B- not to mention the returning vets letting down the team.

[Bobe2]

Schwarber?

 

OK, we sign Schwarber and don't sign Wacha, Hill, Strahm and still spend more.

 

Or, we don't sign Story and go with Arroyo and Downs...oh wait...

 

I think expecting to give your top Prospect, Casas, a top 50 MLB prospect a shot before hitting the deadline was a decent plan in March.

 

You keep blaming Bloom for not spending what he wasn't given to spend.

 

It's easy to say we should have done _____, but not realize it would have meant not doing _____.

 

You keep saying I’m blaming Bloom I haven’t mentioned him I’ve been talking about a team with no identity and heading in a sketchy direction, that can’t make up it mind what it wants to be, if that’s bashing Bloom then I guess I’m guilty. And you know if Bloom had been honest with himself and the team and he’s as wonderful as you say he is then he should have known and talked to Henry, I’m sure he could have found some money to stay out of the cellar

[dgalehouse]

A strong case could be made that a change in leadership is needed. This has not been working.

[moonslav59]

You keep saying I’m blaming Bloom I haven’t mentioned him I’ve been talking about a team with no identity and heading in a sketchy direction, that can’t make up it mind what it wants to be, if that’s bashing Bloom then I guess I’m guilty. And you know if Bloom had been honest with himself and the team and he’s as wonderful as you say he is then he should have known and talked to Henry, I’m sure he could have found some money to stay out of the cellar

 

I don't think that's how it works.

 

Bloom to JH: "Can you spare a dime?"

 

JH: "Sure kid. Why didn't you ask me earlier?"

 

When you say things like we "needed a 1Bman," I'm assuming you think the GM didn't fulfill the need you saw, and then later implied they knew was there, but did nothing. If I assumed wrongly, I'm sorry.

 

I certainly think mistakes were made, and I also think the budget has been very rigid. It involved massive cutting before 2020, just enough to cover lost contracts and basic needs in 2021, and then finally opened up a bit in March of 2022. I don't think the GM had or has the ability to squeeze more from the owner.

[Old Red]

A strong case could be made that a change in leadership is needed. This has not been working.

 

It’s amazing that Bloom gets so much trust, and loyalty on here that I don’t hear, or read in all the other venues I visit in Red Sox Nation, and it’s not because of good results, and in some cases it’s on results that may, and I stress the word may happen in the future. Puzzling at best. Imagine what it would be if the results were good.

[moonslav59]

A strong case could be made that a change in leadership is needed. This has not been working.

 

No doubt, but I doubt that case, which would have merit, would convince JH to make a change to the plan he put in motion, to begin with, namely to cut spending and rebuild the farm.

[Elktonnick]

It’s amazing that Bloom gets so much trust, and loyalty on here that I don’t hear, or read in all the other venues I visit in Red Sox Nation, and it’s not because of good results, and in some cases it’s on results that may, and I stress the word may happen in the future. Puzzling at best. Imagine what it would be if the results were good.

If Bloom were fired, that would not surprise me. If he were not fired that would not surprise either. When it comes to his GM or Chief of Baseballl Operations whatever, Henry has proven to be quite mercurial. The case against firing Bloom is really the same as the case against firing Dombrowski. Both did exactly what they were hired to do.

 

One thing that Henry should be concerned about if he fires Bloom is the perception that he is an unreasonable owner who fires people for doing exactly what they were hired to do.

[Old Red]

If Bloom were fired, that would not surprise me. If he were not fired that would not surprise either. When it comes to his GM or Chief of Baseballl Operations whatever, Henry has proven to be quite mercurial. The case against firing Bloom is really the same as the case against firing Dombrowski. Both did exactly what they were hired to do.

 

One thing that Henry should be concerned about if he fires Bloom is the perception that he is an unreasonable owner who fires people for doing exactly what they were hired to do.

I understand Bloom was hired to build the farm better although it was not as bad as some claim on here, and lower the payroll, but I don’t think JH wanted him to be so bad at doing it, and leading the Sox to being in last place in the Div.

[Elktonnick]

I understand Bloom was hired to build the farm better although it was not as bad as some claims on here, and lower the payroll, but I don’t think JH wanted him to be so bad at doing it, and leading the Sox to being in last place in the Div.

If Bloom were to be fired I suspect the real reason will be because he did not make the playoffs yet he went over the lux tax threshold. If he had stayed below the lux tax I think he Henry would tolerate not making the playoffs. But Henry will or will not fire Bloom because of reasons peculiarly his own.

[Old Red]

If Bloom were to be fired I suspect the real reason will be because he did not make the playoffs yet he went over the lux tax threshold. If he had stayed below the lux tax I think he Henry would tolerate not making the playoffs. But Henry will or will not fire Bloom because of reasons peculiarly his own.

 

Remember Henry has rabbit ears, and I’m sure he’s hearing all the Flak from around town, and out in Red Sox Nation about being in last place in the Div even below the mighty O’s.

[Hugh2]

I understand Bloom was hired to build the farm better although it was not as bad as some claim on here, and lower the payroll, but I don’t think JH wanted him to be so bad at doing it, and leading the Sox to being in last place in the Div.

 

It was arguably the worse farm in MLB. They were ranked dead last or bottom 5 by every publication.

[Hugh2]

Oh I stand corrected, Keith Law had the Sox system ranked 24th in 2019 but this was early 2019 before Bloom took over. Not sure of the top of my head who was traded away if feel from grace that year

[moonslav59]

Oh I stand corrected, Keith Law had the Sox system ranked 24th in 2019 but this was early 2019 before Bloom took over. Not sure of the top of my head who was traded away if feel from grace that year

 

As I recall, nobody of note.