Fire Bloom .

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It comes down to valuing a lineup that is good top to bottom with lower risk of losing a big part of the production due to injury (or other like Tatis, Sale, Price-you name them) or putting your money into a few stars and filling in with lesser journeymen players and accepting the risk of losing a major part with a single injury. My preference is to develop a team based on a tiered pay schedule and sticking with it. Others sign their young stars to lucrative quasi-long term contracts early. Baltimore is doing that, and it comes closest to resulting in a tiered schedule. If the Yankees pay Judge $50 mil a year on a longer term contract, they are accepting a huge risk.

 

Yes, pro sports teams are unique compared to other businesses. But how feasible is it that any of these clubs would take the risks that come with a big contract if they couldn't afford it?

 

Has any modern team in the history of baseball paid out kajillions to one or two stars, who then suffered debilitating injuries (on the diamond, motorbiking, running over big screen TVs on bicycles, etc)... and the club had to close its doors, declare bankruptcy or sell the franchise because of it?

[Bellhorn04]

The money figures are different, but I know many businesses where you have de facto guaranteed contracts which get paid despite the employees' performance (including the two examples listed below). Board members also continue to serve on boards despite the performance of their company. The point of this discussion, however, is different. In most businesses, the most desirable employees demand the most money. You cannot as a business owner or manager (whether it's Walmart or Hollywood) just say "I'm going to pay my employees less than they could make elsewhere" and expect to get your choice of who to hire.

 

Of course you can't. But is that the real point you're trying to make?

[moonslav59]

One aspect of being a GM must be maddening.

 

You want to keep a star on your team and offer him a fair or slightly above market rate deal, but what is the market?

 

The market is really what the wildest GM offers or MIGHT offer, but how do you know what that number is, or if teams like LAD and NYY will even pursue your player?

 

So, if you want to keep Bogey, do you have to offer Seager or Correa type deals, and if you don't, some fans will blast you to kingdom come?

 

The Sox top brass have made some serious mistakes, in the past, with lowball initial offers and slow secondary offers, if any. No doubt, but it's not an easy thing to do. I think they were fair with Betts. They were lucky Bogey took his last contract, but now at this age, I'm not sure they want to go much higher than Story's deal, and personally, I can't blame them. The Story deal is already looking a bit scary.

 

Ideally, you lock young stars up early, like the Braves and Rays do, but we did sign Whitlock like that, and I think we tried to get Betts & Devers to do that a few years back, if I'm not mistaken.

 

It's a rough business for guys just under the1 or 2 highest salary teams.

[Hugh2]

For the most part, every single free agent who is signed is going to the highest bidder. That means every time you sign a guy to play CF, RF, SS, P, RP, are wherever you're paying more for him than any other team who tried to sign that guy.

 

That number is almost NEVER going to line up with what most fans want to pay for that player. There seems to be a disconnect here at times where fans often have this duality of wanting to sign quality free agents to improve the team but want them to sign for what is likely going to be below their market value.

[Maxbialystock]

It comes down to valuing a lineup that is good top to bottom with lower risk of losing a big part of the production due to injury (or other like Tatis, Sale, Price-you name them) or putting your money into a few stars and filling in with lesser journeymen players and accepting the risk of losing a major part with a single injury. My preference is to develop a team based on a tiered pay schedule and sticking with it. Others sign their young stars to lucrative quasi-long term contracts early. Baltimore is doing that, and it comes closest to resulting in a tiered schedule. If the Yankees pay Judge $50 mil a year on a longer term contract, they are accepting a huge risk.

 

As one old-timer to another, may I say I completely agree with your thinking. I just don't see the return on paying one or two guys not only gigantic contracts, but, as someone else pointed out, guaranteed bucks.

 

The Sox paid Mookie Betts a total of $33M for 5+ seasons during which his cumulative WAR was 41. The Dodgers are now paying him $365M for 12 seasons, which equates to $36M/season. In his almost 3 seasons with the Dodgers Mookie's cumulative WAR 12.3. Simply stated, for the Sox he was paid $6M per season and delivered on average a WAR of 8 per season. For the Dodgers, he's delivering 6 WAR (I'm rounding up because 2020 was a short season and 2022 isn't over) per season for $35M per season.

 

And the Dodgers are fine with this because they can afford to give Mookie that much moola. More importantly, they lead MLB in attendance and in wins (81) to date.

[Maxbialystock]

One aspect of being a GM must be maddening.

 

You want to keep a star on your team and offer him a fair or slightly above market rate deal, but what is the market?

 

The market is really what the wildest GM offers or MIGHT offer, but how do you know what that number is, or if teams like LAD and NYY will even pursue your player?

 

So, if you want to keep Bogey, do you have to offer Seager or Correa type deals, and if you don't, some fans will blast you to kingdom come?

 

The Sox top brass have made some serious mistakes, in the past, with lowball initial offers and slow secondary offers, if any. No doubt, but it's not an easy thing to do. I think they were fair with Betts. They were lucky Bogey took his last contract, but now at this age, I'm not sure they want to go much higher than Story's deal, and personally, I can't blame them. The Story deal is already looking a bit scary.

 

Ideally, you lock young stars up early, like the Braves and Rays do, but we did sign Whitlock like that, and I think we tried to get Betts & Devers to do that a few years back, if I'm not mistaken.

 

It's a rough business for guys just under the1 or 2 highest salary teams.

 

After an 86 freaking year drought, the Sox have won more WS titles, 4, in the 20 years John Henry has been the owner than any other MLB team.

 

So to me it is absolutely unarguable that in those 20 years the Sox overall management has been the best there is in MLB.

 

And the two truly big money clubs, the Yankees and Dodgers? They're the dummies.

 

A quick pick at spotrac says that the Phillies ($242M in salaries this year) and Padres ($219M) are trending toward "money is no object." We'll see how they do. Both do currently have winning records. San Diego is 5th in attendance and Philadelphia 15th.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Maxbialystock

[Elktonnick]

After an 86 freaking year drought, the Sox have won more WS titles, 4, in the 20 years John Henry has been the owner than any other MLB team.

 

So to me it is absolutely unarguable that in those 20 years the Sox overall management has been the best there is in MLB.

 

And the two truly big money clubs, the Yankees and Dodgers? They're the dummies.

 

A quick pick at spotrac says that the Phillies ($242M in salaries this year) and Padres ($219M) are trending toward "money is no object." We'll see how they do. Both do currently have winning records. San Diego is 5th in attendance and Philadelphia 15th.

To business folks like Henry money is a tool. They will spend whatever is necessary to achieve their desired objectives. The Padres objective is to win it all. They are tired of being in the Dodgers shadow. If spending 300 million and gutting the farm to get there they appear prepared to do so.

 

The Phillies likewise feel they need to spend big to make a run at the title. That is the reason they hired Dombrowski. They know his track record.

The Red Sox because of the four titles are in a different place. Henry does not feel the need to spend as much as he has in the past. That may change in a year or two. When it does I have no doubt Henry will commit more money than he has today.

[Hugh2]

Looks like JH has invest more moeny in this team than 27 out of 32 owners. I think that's a guy who's trying to win.

[Old Red]

To business folks like Henry money is a tool. They will spend whatever is necessary to achieve their desired objectives. The Padres objective is to win it all. They are tired of being in the Dodgers shadow. If spending 300 million and gutting the farm to get there they appear prepared to do so.

 

The Phillies likewise feel they need to spend big to make a run at the title. That is the reason they hired Dombrowski. They know his track record.

The Red Sox because of the four titles are in a different place. Henry does not feel the need to spend as much as he has in the past. That may change in a year or two. When it does I have no doubt Henry will commit more money than he has today.

 

Well said, and like I’ve been saying this is not the same JH as in the past, so don’t try to read what he will do when it comes to spending on payroll based on what he has done in the past. The 4 titles have been great, but like I heard today if the Red Sox end up in last place in the Div , which would make it 5 times in 11 years, and that is unacceptable.

[Old Red]

Looks like JH has invest more moeny in this team than 27 out of 32 owners. I think that's a guy who's trying to win.

 

A lot of that is old, and pre Bloom money. Let’s see what it looks like to start 2023, and if it’s a thumb up, or a thumb down.

[JDavis76]

Looks like JH has invest more moeny in this team than 27 out of 32 owners. I think that's a guy who's trying to win.

 

I have to laugh at the people that accuse henry of going cheap.

 

We get the same thing from dummy Yankees fans claiming Hal is cheap.

 

Ignorant fans on both sides of the fence......

[Hugh2]

A lot of that is old, and pre Bloom money. Let’s see what it looks like to start 2023, and if it’s a thumb up, or a thumb down.

 

But, John Henry was still the owner then right?\

 

EDIT: Did you just unknowingly and inadvertently defend Bloom for this albatross of a team? I think weeeeeee diiiiiiid.

[JDavis76]

A lot of that is old, and pre Bloom money. Let’s see what it looks like to start 2023, and if it’s a thumb up, or a thumb down.

 

Regardless if it's "old" money or not, he's still spending it.

[moonslav59]

Looks like JH has invest more moeny in this team than 27 out of 32 owners. I think that's a guy who's trying to win.

 

Until the Story signing, the Sox GMs went a pretty long stretch where the new money spent did not equal departing money via trades, releases and free agency.

 

If I'm not wrong, that time period lasted from the start of 2019 to March 20, 2022. That's almost 3 years. (Maybe even counting the Story contract still leaves a net negative dollar amount.)

 

According to cot, we started the 2019 season at $236M and ended the season at $228M. We are at $141M now, counting $16M for Price, so the Story signing apparently put us a net $5M up, but for over 3 years, we were a net negative on new spending.

 

He's done something like this, before, so I'm not alarmed, but some just look at the total budget and wonder why Bloom is not more successful.

 

Max has done a good job showing how little many of our biggest contracts have contributed to the 2022 team.

 

Your point is still correct, but some context may be needed..

Edited August 18, 2022 by moonslav59

[Hugh2]

Until the Story signing, the Sox GMs went a pretty long stretch where the new money spent did not equal departing money via trades, releases and free agency.

 

If I'm not wrong, that time period lasted from the start of 2019 to March 20, 2022. That's almost 3 years.

 

He's done something like this, before, so I'm not alarmed, but some just look at the total budget and wonder why Bloom is not more successful.

 

Max has done a good job showing how little many of our biggest contracts have contributed to the 2022 team.

 

Your point is still correct.

 

Welll, 2020 changed a lot. It turned this team into a team that mandated a payroll reset. That's what Bloom was brought in to do. Get under the cap and rebuild the farm.

[Old Red]

But, John Henry was still the owner then right?\

 

EDIT: Did you just unknowingly and inadvertently defend Bloom for this albatross of a team? I think weeeeeee diiiiiiid.

 

No! I did not inadvertently defend Bloom. I’ve never questioned that Bloom doesn’t have a big allowance from JH like DD, and others have had, but what he’s done with it, or not done with it. Nice try though.

[moonslav59]

Welll, 2020 changed a lot. It turned this team into a team that mandated a payroll reset. That's what Bloom was brought in to do. Get under the cap and rebuild the farm.

 

More than just "get under the cap." it was a massive payroll cut that put us significantly under the tax line (about $10M under.) The 2020 salaries were pro-rated, so it's hard to compare apples to apples, but we all know we cut a lot more salary than we added.

 

In 2021, we added about $40M in new spending, but lost about that much in expiring or traded salaries.

 

Only the Story signing in late March of this year, did the negative trend end.

[Old Red]

Welll, 2020 changed a lot. It turned this team into a team that mandated a payroll reset. That's what Bloom was brought in to do. Get under the cap and rebuild the farm.

 

Shouldn’t have to be a Last Place team in the process.

[Elktonnick]

Henry hired Bloom to do a job in a particular way. If Henry thinks Bloom is not doing the job that he was hired to do then Henry will fire him. Also if Henry thinks the job needs to be done differently from the job that Bloom was hired to do, and Bloom is not the person capable of doing that different job the Henry will fire him.

[Bellhorn04]

Henry hired Bloom to do a job in a particular way. If Henry thinks Bloom is not doing the job that he was hired to do then Henry will fire him. Also if Henry thinks the job needs to be done differently from the job that Bloom was hired to do, and Bloom is not the person capable of doing that different job the Henry will fire him.

 

It's not a job with long-term security, unless maybe you're Brian Cashman.

 

Dombrowski is with his fifth team now.

[moonslav59]

It's not a job with long-term security, unless maybe you're Brian Cashman.

 

Dombrowski is with his fifth team now.

 

Yup, and Henry might have known when he hired Bloom, he would make a change once the farm was built back up. (Maybe not. Maybe, he wants to build a sustainable farm system and not hire a plunderer.)

[Elktonnick]

It's not a job with long-term security, unless maybe you're Brian Cashman.

 

Dombrowski is with his fifth team now.

Cashman must have the negatives or photos in a Swiss bank safety deposit box along with audio tapes.

[JDavis76]

Cashman must have the negatives or photos in a Swiss bank safety deposit box along with audio tapes.

 

At least Cashman has won, how do you explain billy beane?

 

Longest-tenured MLB general managers

WWW.MLB.COM

---

The title might differ from franchise to franchise, but whether it’s the general manager, the president of baseball operations or the chief baseball officer, every MLB team has one person who’s ultimately responsible for the on-field product, and there's not a lot of job security in such a high-stakes business.

[Hugh2]

Shouldn’t have to be a Last Place team in the process.

 

Almost the same exact team was two wins away from a WS last year. That ALCS caliber team got decimated by injuries this year.

 

If the Sox had key players not injured, do we think they’d still be in the cellar? Or do we think we’d have a wild card spot right? I’d bet on the later.

[Elktonnick]

At least Cashman has won, how do you explain billy beane?

 

Longest-tenured MLB general managers

WWW.MLB.COM

---

The title might differ from franchise to franchise, but whether it’s the general manager, the president of baseball operations or the chief baseball officer, every MLB team has one person who’s ultimately responsible for the on-field product, and there's not a lot of job security in such a high-stakes business.

 

The article did.

[notin]

Shouldn’t have to be a Last Place team in the process.

 

They’re also a .500 team.

 

And the way the AL East is this year, the last place team could easily win 86 or 87 games….

[Old Red]

They’re also a .500 team.

 

And the way the AL East is this year, the last place team could easily win 86 or 87 games….

 

500 team is kind of grasping at straws to say it’s alright to be in last place, and yesterday you couldn’t say they were a 500 team. You honestly think the Red Sox are going to win 86 or 87 games?

[Old Red]

Almost the same exact team was two wins away from a WS last year. That ALCS caliber team got decimated by injuries this year.

 

If the Sox had key players not injured, do we think they’d still be in the cellar? Or do we think we’d have a wild card spot right? I’d bet on the later.

 

Let’s remember this team started out 10-19 completely healthy, and the only winning they have pretty much done this year was in the fantasy month of June that lots bought into against not only a weak AL West, but Seattle sucked at the time, and the Angels were going through a 15 game losing streak. Coming back to reality against the East, and the Sox sucked again, and less than two weeks ago lost 3 of 4 to KC. Not quite the exact team as last year with no 96 RBI Renfroe, and Flintstone Schwaber who helped down the stretch. The powerless bats of JD, and Bogey aren’t the same either, and no hot streak from Kike either. Injuries yes, but bad results were a bigger factor.Kike sucked before he got hurt, and Story was either or, and not to mention JBJ, and his big bat made possible by Bloom.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Old Red

[JDavis76]

The article did.

 

Cashman's teams have pretty much always been competitive as well, never finishing below .500 and only missing the playoffs a handful of times.

 

Does that mean billy beane must have compromising photos, video and audio as well?

[JDavis76]

Almost the same exact team was two wins away from a WS last year. That ALCS caliber team got decimated by injuries this year.

 

If the Sox had key players not injured, do we think they’d still be in the cellar? Or do we think we’d have a wild card spot right? I’d bet on the later.

 

Injuries are a weak excuse for last place.