Fire Bloom .

[notin]

Renfroe and Evans both had cannons for arms. Dewey went through his struggles at the plate. Evens was a better defender but then again he played right a long time and grew more familiar with the nuances of right field in Fenway. Renfroe played there one season. I think if he played in Boston as long as Dewey he would have been as well regarded as Dewey is today.

 

 

1. No. He’s not as good defensively.

 

2. No. He’s not good enough to last in Fenway as long as Evans.

[moonslav59]

Renfroe and Evans both had cannons for arms. Dewey went through his struggles at the plate. Evens was a better defender but then again he played right a long time and grew more familiar with the nuances of right field in Fenway. Renfroe played there one season. I think if he played in Boston as long as Dewey he would have been as well regarded as Dewey is today.

 

That's assuming Renfroe ages well. Not many players do better after age 30 than before, like Dewey did.

 

Renfroe has had 3 decent seasons and has never played over 144 games in a season, only 2 seasons over 122 games and 3 over 117 games.

 

I think that is a huge leap of faith on Renfroe's abilities and aging composition.

 

Even when Evans struggled, his defense and OBP made him a net plus for pretty much all of his 20 seasons in MLB.

 

He never had a bWAR below 0.3, and for his middle 16 seasons, his lowest bWAR was 1.2. His next 2 lowests were 2.0 and 3.0!

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by moonslav59

[Bobe2]

I’m not sure about the accuracy of these numbers so if someone else could check it would be great, 2019 Red Sox payroll

$236,171,000 2022 Red Sox payroll $239,604,000 the 2019 team had Betts, Price, Benintendi, Moreland, Porcello, Holt and Kimberly on that team that were let go but the payroll went up and the quality went down. Just don’t make sense so if someone else could check it would be great.

Edited August 14, 2022 by Bobe2

[Bobe2]

I’m not sure about the accuracy of these numbers so if someone else could check it would be great, 2019 Red Sox payroll

$236,171,000 2022 Red Sox payroll $239,604,000 the 2019 team had Betts, Price, Benintendi, Moreland, Porcello, Holt and Kimberly on that team that were let go but the payroll went up and the quality went down. Just don’t make sense so if someone else could check it would be great.

 

Kimbrel lousy spell check

[jad]

...and all for what? The fans they tried to keep happy enough to keep watching the team are irate and bitching up a storm.

 

 

We played it halfway back before the 2013 ring,and it worked, but we traded away basically our whole vaunted rotation. I'm not sure we get the same results from this halfway stance.

 

We got a couple nice prospects for Vaz. I have to think we could have gotten something valuable for Nate, JD and to a lesser extent Wacha, Hill, Strahm and maybe Kike. Had we pitched in some or most of the money- even better returns.

 

Plus, we could have gotten under the tax line, so we'd be starting fresh with a year one tax for 2023.... not year 2 rates or a reset priority.

 

Unless I am completely mis-reading what you say (which is quite possible), you seem not to have understood that my post was ironic.

[Old Red]

Last place in the Div, and last wild card spot standing update. 4 games back in the L column for last place, and 5 games back in the L colum for the last wild card spot. Got some momentum going, so 1 game at a time, and let’s GO SOX!

[Larry Cook]

It is nice that we are starting to get some of the vast multitude of injured players back.

 

Story and houck would add a ton to our lineup,

 

Refsynder, danish and kike are currently rehabbing now.

[Elktonnick]

1. No. He’s not as good defensively.

 

2. No. He’s not good enough to last in Fenway as long as Evans.

 

Being good enough has nothing to do with how long one plays for today's Red Sox. Just take Betts for example. Dewey would not have played right field in Boston past when he became eligible for free agency. Bloom would have traded him at his first opportunity for three prospects only one whom would have made it to the majors and then himself traded the next year for a mediocre reliever.

[Larry Cook]

Being good enough has nothing to do with how long one plays for today's Red Sox. Just take Betts for example. Dewey would not have played right field in Boston past when he became eligible for free agency. Bloom would have traded him at his first opportunity for three prospects only one whom would have made it to the majors and then himself traded the next year for a mediocre reliever.

 

I’d be ecstatic if Hang’em Chaim ever traded for mediocre relievers. Except for an exception or two, mediocre would be a huge upgrade for him!

 

Ps: hang’em Chaim should grab every yankee pitcher that comes available via the rule 5 draft!

[moonslav59]

I’d be ecstatic if Hang’em Chaim ever traded for mediocre relievers. Except for an exception or two, mediocre would be a huge upgrade for him!

 

Ps: hang’em Chaim should grab every yankee pitcher that comes available via the rule 5 draft!

 

Like Ort (minor league Rule 5)?

 

LOL. (just kidding)

[Larry Cook]

Like Ort (minor league Rule 5)?

 

LOL. (just kidding)

 

Whitlock

Keller

Ort

 

1 (maybe 2) out of 3 is not bad.

[moonslav59]

Whitlock

Keller

Ort

 

1 (maybe 2) out of 3 is not bad.

 

I'm all for this plan!

[notin]

Being good enough has nothing to do with how long one plays for today's Red Sox. Just take Betts for example. Dewey would not have played right field in Boston past when he became eligible for free agency. Bloom would have traded him at his first opportunity for three prospects only one whom would have made it to the majors and then himself traded the next year for a mediocre reliever.

 

He would have had to trade Dewey if you saw the 12 digit contracts that Dombrowski gave to Armas and Shag Crawford…

[Old Red]

According to Pham he wanted to come to Boston before the season started, but a deal couldn’t be worked out. The Red Sox didn’t need a RHH OF did they? Way to go Bloom.

[Bellhorn04]

According to Pham he wanted to come to Boston before the season started, but a deal couldn’t be worked out. The Red Sox didn’t need a RHH OF did they? Way to go Bloom.

 

Enough about the RH outfielder. It's been way overblown.

 

Bloom DID sign Refsnyder.

 

And he liked Arroyo's bat, and lately Arroyo has been one of our best hitters.

 

And now we have Pham.

[Elktonnick]

He would have had to trade Dewey if you saw the 12 digit contracts that Dombrowski gave to Armas and Shag Crawford…

Shag Crawford was an umpire.

[Old Red]

Enough about the RH outfielder. It's been way overblown.

 

Bloom DID sign Refsnyder.

 

And he liked Arroyo's bat, and lately Arroyo has been one of our best hitters.

 

And now we have Pham.

 

RH outfielder was overblown? The whole OF pretty much sucked offensively early in the season when they started 10-19, and only Dugy out of the three got his average much above 200, so I don’t know how needing another OF was overblown. Ref only came up after the injuries, and Arroyo never was an OF, so yes now we have Pham, but could have started the season in Boston. Just a thought.

[cp176]

I've been a Sox fan since the early 70's, so I suffered a long time. Tons and tons of heartbreak, frustration and worse.

 

I remember telling my fellow Sox friends that I'd take 10 last place finishes for just one ring. Well, after that ring in 2004, my attitude changed, but I'm still willing to sustain some down years, if and only if the future keeps looking brighter and brighter.

 

I don't "worry about" the Sox exceeding the tax limit, but it is what it is. I'm not going to just fall back on, "Henry needs to spend more" as the answer to everything (not that that is your position.)

 

I think this team is building up for a more sustainable winning team, but it remains to be seen, if it works.

 

They gave up on that path when they hired DD. Those 3 years were great, and maybe we go that route again, at some point, if Bloom's plan backfires.

 

I admit, I let 2021 get my expectations too high for a quicker turn-around than I initially expected after 2019, but I do think we're on the right path.

 

This season would really suck, if I thought we were getting worse, long term. This winter's additions will be telling. We could easily e worse, but bringing back Bogey, JD, Nate and everyone else does not look all that promising, either, to me.

 

I have been a sox fan since 1955. I have never been as turned off by a team as this one in all of my years.

[Bellhorn04]

RH outfielder was overblown? The whole OF pretty much sucked offensively early in the season when they started 10-19, and only Dugy out of the three got his average much above 200, so I don’t know how needing another OF was overblown. Ref only came up after the injuries, and Arroyo never was an OF, so yes now we have Pham, but could have started the season in Boston. Just a thought.

 

Pham had a .238 BA with a .694 OPS this year before coming to Boston. People would have been griping about him too.

[Old Red]

Pham had a .238 BA with a .694 OPS this year before coming to Boston. People would have been griping about him too.

 

Ok we disagree, but those Pham’s stats were better than Kike, JBJ, or Duran, and I would have taken it.

[moonslav59]

Pham had a .238 BA with a .694 OPS this year before coming to Boston. People would have been griping about him too.

 

Like we have with Story- the actual RH'd bat we did sign that likely convinced Bloom that Kike was the only RH'd bat we needed in the OF to start the season off.

 

Also, why no love (or credit) for Refsnyder?

[Old Red]

Like we have with Story- the actual RH'd bat we did sign that likely convinced Bloom that Kike was the only RH'd bat we needed in the OF to start the season off.

 

Also, why no love (or credit) for Refsnyder?

The Ref Man was a good pickup, but should have been called up sooner.

[Hugh2]

Ok we disagree, but those Pham’s stats were better than Kike, JBJ, or Duran, and I would have taken it.

 

Realistically if Pham had started the season in Boston and had the stat line he does now, Likely Duran is likely getting a lot more at bats in AAA. I would imagine a better stat line and a fan base demanding his promotion to start in the outfield.

 

I don't think your argument is wrong, but I don't think Pham is the guy to say we should have started the season with now that we know in hindsight he's marginally better than what else we put out there this year. The outfield needed a much bigger upgrade than that.

[Old Red]

Realistically if Pham had started the season in Boston and had the stat line he does now, Likely Duran is likely getting a lot more at bats in AAA. I would imagine a better stat line and a fan base demanding his promotion to start in the outfield.

 

I don't think your argument is wrong, but I don't think Pham is the guy to say we should have started the season with now that we know in hindsight he's marginally better than what else we put out there this year. The outfield needed a much bigger upgrade than that.

 

I’m not saying Pham is who we should have started the year with, but could have started the year with, and as it turned out better than Kike, or JBJ. There were better than Pham out there. It sounds like to me that if they were negotiating with Pham Bloom knew there was a need for another OF, but didn’t pull the trigger, and went with Arroyo instead.

Edited August 15, 2022 by Old Red

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Like we have with Story- the actual RH'd bat we did sign that likely convinced Bloom that Kike was the only RH'd bat we needed in the OF to start the season off.

 

Also, why no love (or credit) for Refsnyder?

 

Rob's been an ok fill-in, but is also a guy who has never started more than 37 games in his seven years in the bigs -- with a career sub-.700 OPS. We all know he wasn't the regular right-handed outfield bat needed to complete the roster at the outset of the season.

[moonslav59]

Rob's been an ok fill-in, but is also a guy who has never started more than 37 games in his seven years in the bigs -- with a career sub-.700 OPS. We all know he wasn't the regular right-handed outfield bat needed to complete the roster at the outset of the season.

 

True, but the late Story signing took the heat off needing a big RH'd bat.

 

It was only the injury to our only RH'd OF bat, Kike, that exposed the weak link. Ref ended up filling in very well, after he was called up and until he got hurt, but yes, nobody saw him as a viable OF option back in March.

[notin]

Shag Crawford was an umpire.

 

Also a former Sox reliever, and notably the winning pitcher in game 5 of the 1986 ALCS aka the Dave Henderson game.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Crawford_(baseball)

[Elktonnick]

Also a former Sox reliever, and notably the winning pitcher in game 5 of the 1986 ALCS aka the Dave Henderson game.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Crawford_(baseball)

He was not an outfielder.

[notin]

He was not an outfielder.

 

Yes. That’s why I called him a “former Sox reliever” and “winning pitcher…”

 

He also was not an NFL punter or a breed of cactus or a tropical disease or a well, lots of things I didn’t mention…

[Maxbialystock]

I have been a sox fan since 1955. I have never been as turned off by a team as this one in all of my years.

 

I've got you by six years and completely disagree. I do agree the outfield defense has been off-putting, but, except at 1b, which shouldn't be a defensive problem but has been this year, I have liked the infield defense of Devers, Bogey, and Story. Baserunning has also been subpar.

 

But, even with JDM's obvious problems, Bogey's backsliding a tad (fewer dingers), Story's injury, Duran and Dalbec's disappointing performance, etc, the Sox have scored the 4th most runs in the AL and have the 5th best team OPS.

 

The big problem--somewhat amplified by the weak outfield defense--is the pitching which has been decimated by injuries. And I point the finger directly at DD who acquired Price, Sale, and Eovaldi, all of whom the Sox are still paying for ($63M this year alone) and whose combined WAR this season is +1.0.

 

Sox pitching right now has the 14th best ERA, 4.35, out of 15 AL teams.

 

Yet, despite the abysmal pitching--thanks to all those arms going on the IL--so-so defense and baserunning, and decent but not great hitting, the Sox are 2 games below .500.