Fire Bloom .

[notin]

Lost on several posters? Only you get everything, or at least you think you do.

 

The whole “saving Henry’s money” angle has always been stupid yet somehow it persists…

[Old Red]

The whole “saving Henry’s money” angle has always been stupid yet somehow it persists…

 

I have two conflicting thoughts. I don’t agree with $300M+ contracts on one hand, and on the other I could care less if Henry has to pay out $500M on payroll.

[notin]

I have two conflicting thoughts. I don’t agree with $300M+ contracts on one hand, and on the other I could care less if Henry has to pay out $500M on payroll.

 

Oh I don’t care how much he spends personally.

 

But since I know he isn’t going to spend that much, I like the big, cumbersome deals a lot less…

[dgalehouse]

There is a price for everything. If you want a certain player and you want a great team , sometimes you have to pay that price. You can call it an overpay if you want. You can say that eventually the player will not be worth it , but sometimes you have to go that extra mile. And it gets more expensive all the time. Now , you can try and build a great team without doing that , but you better be very good or very lucky .

[Old Red]

There is a price for everything. If you want a certain player and you want a great team , sometimes you have to pay that price. You can call it an overpay if you want. You can say that eventually the player will not be worth it , but sometimes you have to go that extra mile. And it gets more expensive all the time. Now , you can try and build a great team without doing that , but you better be very good or very lucky .

 

And I don’t see Bloom as being good, or lucky, so I think the Sox are screwed until Henry smartens up, and gets rid of him.

[notin]

There is a price for everything. If you want a certain player and you want a great team , sometimes you have to pay that price. You can call it an overpay if you want. You can say that eventually the player will not be worth it , but sometimes you have to go that extra mile. And it gets more expensive all the time. Now , you can try and build a great team without doing that , but you better be very good or very lucky .

 

True, but if you do pay the price, just know it can be greater than just the cash.

 

This team is the inevitable result of previous overspending…

[Bellhorn04]

JD had an AAV of $25mill, so he would put us close…

 

$22 mill to be exact.

[Bellhorn04]

1/3 is about $8M.

 

cots shows we are $11.8M over, right now, and I assume that counts Vaz's cut.

 

No, Cot's figures don't seem to reflect all the adjustments for trade deadline moves.

[moonslav59]

There is a price for everything. If you want a certain player and you want a great team , sometimes you have to pay that price. You can call it an overpay if you want. You can say that eventually the player will not be worth it , but sometimes you have to go that extra mile. And it gets more expensive all the time. Now , you can try and build a great team without doing that , but you better be very good or very lucky .

 

Or, it takes a long time to get there.

[illinoisredsox]

Irate, and bitching up a storm, and proud of it. This team is in last place, and an embarrassment. Always have to bash someone who doesn’t think like you either players that aren’t good enough to fit your standard, or the fans who don’t share your views.

 

There isn't one thing in that post that bashes anyone. He made a statement.

 

We get it, you don't like moon. Fine. This incessant need of yours to respond adversely to anything he posts is tiresome.

 

Again, you have good things to add to this board, but this crap adds nothing.

[Old Red]

There isn't one thing in that post that bashes anyone. He made a statement.

 

We get it, you don't like moon. Fine. This incessant need of yours to respond adversely to anything he posts is tiresome.

 

Again, you have good things to add to this board, but this crap adds nothing.

You have your opinion, and I have mine. I have no disdain against anyone.

[Bellhorn04]

You have your opinion, and I have mine. I have no disdain against anyone.

 

If you don't think there's any disdain in your posts about moon, maybe you need to check the meaning of the word.

[Old Red]

If you don't think there's any disdain in your posts about moon, maybe you need to check the meaning of the word.

 

And you are saying that for both sides of course. I asked before if anyone had put him on ignore like MVP, and no one answered. I have also seen more than one pissing match with him, and someone else, and just stood by, and watched,so it’s not just me. I know you like to put all the blame on me, and I’m only here for pissing contest, so so be it.

[moonslav59]

There isn't one thing in that post that bashes anyone. He made a statement.

 

We get it, you don't like moon. Fine. This incessant need of yours to respond adversely to anything he posts is tiresome.

 

Again, you have good things to add to this board, but this crap adds nothing.

 

It appears the attempt to not turn off fans by "throwing in the towel" did not work.

 

I don't think that's a radical position to hold. I think it helped lead to the decision to not trade JD, Nate, Wacha, Hill, Strahm and others. I'd totally understand that would have made a lot of fans angry. It's not rocket science.

 

On the whole "Red thing." I admit I went too far, too many times. I can explain it away all I want as just playing tit for tat, but I was just as responsible for the grief I caused others having to put up with our BS. I've put Red, JD and Swi on ignore to try and avoid continuing or lessening the grief and personal attacks, but apparently it hasn't worked all that well.

 

I am able to see a few posts by those I ignore, when others respond to them, and I'm happy with my choice to put and keep them on ignore. I don't want to open a can of worms or try and tell anyone what they should do. I don't want to try and force my ideas on anyone else. I realize it is a very rare thing when anyone on this site convinces someone else to change their opinion.

 

I give my opinions, fully expecting someone or maybe even many people to disagree. I know I get testy, too easily. I'm trying to work on that, but I'm not perfect.

 

I love the Sox, and I know most of those I disagree with on this site do, too (except JD.) We all have different expectations, viewpoints and opinions.

 

What a boring world it would be, if we all agreed on everything.

 

I do think I have tried hard to not make things personal, but sometimes it doesn't come across that way, and I apologize for my behaviors, in the past, most recently towards dgale and others.

 

I'll continue to try and improve my tone and testiness, but I'm human. There is nothing like a bad stretch by the Sox to bring out the worst in most of us.

 

Again, I sincerely apologize. No excuses. I went too far, too many times.

[Old Red]

It appears the attempt to not turn off fans by "throwing in the towel" did not work.

 

I don't think that's a radical position to hold. I think it helped lead to the decision to not trade JD, Nate, Wacha, Hill, Strahm and others. I'd totally understand that would have made a lot of fans angry. It's not rocket science.

 

On the whole "Red thing." I admit I went too far, too many times. I can explain it away all I want as just playing tit for tat, but I was just as responsible for the grief I caused others having to put up with our BS. I've put Red, JD and Swi on ignore to try and avoid continuing or lessening the grief and personal attacks, but apparently it hasn't worked all that well.

 

I am able to see a few posts by those I ignore, when others respond to them, and I'm happy with my choice to put and keep them on ignore. I don't want to open a can of worms or try and tell anyone what they should do. I don't want to try and force my ideas on anyone else. I realize it is a very rare thing when anyone on this site convinces someone else to change their opinion.

 

I give my opinions, fully expecting someone or maybe even many people to disagree. I know I get testy, too easily. I'm trying to work on that, but I'm not perfect.

 

I love the Sox, and I know most of those I disagree with on this site do, too (except JD.) We all have different expectations, viewpoints and opinions.

 

What a boring world it would be, if we all agreed on everything.

 

I do think I have tried hard to not make things personal, but sometimes it doesn't come across that way, and I apologize for my behaviors, in the past, most recently towards dgale and others.

 

I'll continue to try and improve my tone and testiness, but I'm human. There is nothing like a bad stretch by the Sox to bring out the worst in most of us.

 

Again, I sincerely apologize. No excuses. I went too far, too many times.

Well written, but there wouldn’t be any pissing contest if people could just do a simple thing agree to disagree that I have tried several times, but seems to be a big problem that everyone has to get the last word in.Facts are facts, and opinions are opinions, and nothing more than that, and most times both sides can be right at the same time, but don’t want to hear the other side.

Edited August 14, 2022 by Old Red

[dgalehouse]

As many have posted many times, it's about balance. My dreams of long term sustainability are alive and well.

 

It is easy to sustain mediocrity. Difficult to sustain excellence.

[moonslav59]

It is easy to sustain mediocrity. Difficult to sustain excellence.

 

Maybe mediocrity is a step to excellence.

[Bellhorn04]

So what is the definition of sustained excellence in MLB?

 

Under the current playoff structure, I would guess it's something like this: making the playoffs 80-90% of the time, and winning it all at least once a decade.

[Bobe2]

I'm not "worrying about" Henry. I'm not justifying his going stingy, at times. I'm just facing the reality that it is what it is.

 

He opened the wallet enough, IMO, this winter, to make us more competitive than we ended up being, but I don't think he or Bloom saw this deadline as being the right time to splurge and sacrifice some of the future to go for a ring. I agree with their assessment.

 

You don't, but it is what it is. Henry chose not to spend at the deadline.

 

I have no problem with the trade deadline this team is going nowhere, my problem , is when people start trying to save the Red Sox money and worrying about them exceeding the salary cap, they usually do. Before JH bought the team I suffered threw the Yawkey years, I don’t know if your old enough to remember the Sox in the 60’s and 70’s 8 or 10 thousand people in the stands, never really made a effort to win they had some great players that were on poor teams, it’s a shame players like Yaz, Rice, Williams never got a ring of their own and why because they were cheap, cheap,cheap, cheap, cheap and something else that doesn’t need to be said, so once again I have no problem with the trade deadline

[moonslav59]

So what is the definition of sustained excellence in MLB?

 

Under the current playoff structure, I would guess it's something like this: making the playoffs 80-90% of the time, and winning it all at least once a decade.

 

It took the Astros a few years of tanking and a long time to build up the farm where they could sustain letting a few stars go to free agency and having fresh blue chippers to step in. That is a very hard thing to do, and even harder to sustain, but they look to be on the right path.

[moonslav59]

I have no problem with the trade deadline this team is going nowhere, my problem , is when people start trying to save the Red Sox money and worrying about them exceeding the salary cap, they usually do. Before JH bought the team I suffered threw the Yawkey years, I don’t know if your old enough to remember the Sox in the 60’s and 70’s 8 or 10 thousand people in the stands, never really made a effort to win they had some great players that were on poor teams, it’s a shame players like Yaz, Rice, Williams never got a ring of their own and why because they were cheap, cheap,cheap, cheap, cheap and something else that doesn’t need to be said, so once again I have no problem with the trade deadline

 

I've been a Sox fan since the early 70's, so I suffered a long time. Tons and tons of heartbreak, frustration and worse.

 

I remember telling my fellow Sox friends that I'd take 10 last place finishes for just one ring. Well, after that ring in 2004, my attitude changed, but I'm still willing to sustain some down years, if and only if the future keeps looking brighter and brighter.

 

I don't "worry about" the Sox exceeding the tax limit, but it is what it is. I'm not going to just fall back on, "Henry needs to spend more" as the answer to everything (not that that is your position.)

 

I think this team is building up for a more sustainable winning team, but it remains to be seen, if it works.

 

They gave up on that path when they hired DD. Those 3 years were great, and maybe we go that route again, at some point, if Bloom's plan backfires.

 

I admit, I let 2021 get my expectations too high for a quicker turn-around than I initially expected after 2019, but I do think we're on the right path.

 

This season would really suck, if I thought we were getting worse, long term. This winter's additions will be telling. We could easily e worse, but bringing back Bogey, JD, Nate and everyone else does not look all that promising, either, to me.

[Bobe2]

No. Wrong.

 

Evans was a complete player who could hit, field, throw, use power, work the count, make contact, and put up career numbers worthy of Cooperstown.

 

Renfroe can hit home runs and throw hard, sometimes on target…

 

Your comparing a seasoned Evans to a unseasoned Renfroe the two are very similar .268 with 30 bombs described Dwight and Renfroe pretty well. Hunter needed work on his fielding but I’m sure he would have come around. Evans was not a flashy player he was an Ironman for the Sox and I think Renfroe could have been one as well

[Bobe2]

I've been a Sox fan since the early 70's, so I suffered a long time. Tons and tons of heartbreak, frustration and worse.

 

I remember telling my fellow Sox friends that I'd take 10 last place finishes for just one ring. Well, after that ring in 2004, my attitude changed, but I'm still willing to sustain some down years, if and only if the future keeps looking brighter and brighter.

 

I don't "worry about" the Sox exceeding the tax limit, but it is what it is. I'm not going to just fall back on, "Henry needs to spend more" as the answer to everything (not that that is your position.)

 

I think this team is building up for a more sustainable winning team, but it remains to be seen, if it works.

 

They gave up on that path when they hired DD. Those 3 years were great, and maybe we go that route again, at some point, if Bloom's plan backfires.

 

I admit, I let 2021 get my expectations too high for a quicker turn-around than I initially expected after 2019, but I do think we're on the right path.

 

This season would really suck, if I thought we were getting worse, long term. This winter's additions will be telling. We could easily e worse, but bringing back Bogey, JD, Nate and everyone else does not look all that promising, either, to me.

 

This winter will tell the whole story with the contracts coming off payroll their payroll will drop to under 100 million this winter therefore no more excuses about not having money to spend

[moonslav59]

Your comparing a seasoned Evans to a unseasoned Renfroe the two are very similar .268 with 30 bombs described Dwight and Renfroe pretty well. Hunter needed work on his fielding but I’m sure he would have come around. Evans was not a flashy player he was an Ironman for the Sox and I think Renfroe could have been one as well

 

Evans aged very well.

 

Renfroe is 30, and it remains to be seen how he ages.

 

Evans was more than just an arm in RF, and his arm was not only strong, it was accurate as hell.

 

I'm not sure where your BA information is coming from but here are their career lines, which include Dwight's past prime years:

 

BA

.272 Evans

 

OBP.

.370 Evans (This alone, blows any comp with renfroe out of the water, IMO.)

.298 Renfroe

 

SLG

.470 Evans

.490 Renfroe (makes up a little for lower OBP)

 

Defense:

8 GGs Evans

0 top 10m finishes in GG voting

 

 

 

[moonslav59]

Evans aged very well.

 

Renfroe is 30, and it remains to be seen how he ages.

 

Evans was more than just an arm in RF, and his arm was not only strong, it was accurate as hell.

 

I'm not sure where your BA information is coming from but here are their career lines, which include Dwight's past prime years:

 

BA

.272 Evans

 

OBP.

.370 Evans (This alone, blows any comp with renfroe out of the water, IMO.)

.298 Renfroe

 

SLG

.470 Evans

.490 Renfroe (makes up a little for lower OBP)

 

Defense:

8 GGs Evans

0 top 10m finishes in GG voting

 

 

Damn edit function not working, again.

 

Renfroe's career BA is .238. It's .246, this year

[moonslav59]

This winter will tell the whole story with the contracts coming off payroll their payroll will drop to under 100 million this winter therefore no more excuses about not having money to spend

 

No doubt.

 

Other GMs had equal deadwood to Sale being on their 4th year budget, so yes, no excuses.

[Bobe2]

Evans aged very well.

 

Renfroe is 30, and it remains to be seen how he ages.

 

Evans was more than just an arm in RF, and his arm was not only strong, it was accurate as hell.

 

I'm not sure where your BA information is coming from but here are their career lines, which include Dwight's past prime years:

 

BA

.272 Evans

 

OBP.

.370 Evans (This alone, blows any comp with renfroe out of the water, IMO.)

.298 Renfroe

 

SLG

.470 Evans

.490 Renfroe (makes up a little for lower OBP)

 

Defense:

8 GGs Evans

0 top 10m finishes in GG voting

 

 

 

So other than on base pct. and all star appearances their pretty close, this has gone far enough all I said was watching him reminded me of Evans I never said he was as good as Dwight. Here’s something I looked up that doesn’t seem quite right maybe you know a better place to look. Red Sox 2019 payroll $236,171,000.00 Red Sox 2022 payroll $239,604,000.00

[moonslav59]

So other than on base pct. and all star appearances their pretty close, this has gone far enough all I said was watching him reminded me of Evans I never said he was as good as Dwight. Here’s something I looked up that doesn’t seem quite right maybe you know a better place to look. Red Sox 2019 payroll $236,171,000.00 Red Sox 2022 payroll $239,604,000.00

 

I don't see a good comp between Renfroe and Evans. They are too dissimilar in almost every category. Renfore hits way more HRs, which makes their SLG% close. They both had strong arms. That's about it. You mentioned BAs being about the same, but they really were not. The OBP, throwing accuracy and overall defense are way apart.

 

I'm okay with Renfroe reminding you of Evans. I just don't see it.

 

I'm not sure how current payroll plays into the comp.

[Elktonnick]

So other than on base pct. and all star appearances their pretty close, this has gone far enough all I said was watching him reminded me of Evans I never said he was as good as Dwight. Here’s something I looked up that doesn’t seem quite right maybe you know a better place to look. Red Sox 2019 payroll $236,171,000.00 Red Sox 2022 payroll $239,604,000.00

Renfroe and Evans both had cannons for arms. Dewey went through his struggles at the plate. Evens was a better defender but then again he played right a long time and grew more familiar with the nuances of right field in Fenway. Renfroe played there one season. I think if he played in Boston as long as Dewey he would have been as well regarded as Dewey is today.

[notin]

Your comparing a seasoned Evans to a unseasoned Renfroe the two are very similar .268 with 30 bombs described Dwight and Renfroe pretty well. Hunter needed work on his fielding but I’m sure he would have come around. Evans was not a flashy player he was an Ironman for the Sox and I think Renfroe could have been one as well

 

Evans suited up nearly every day for the Red Sox. Renfroe can’t even find a team that wants to keep him…