Fire Bloom .

[moonslav59]

He’s had money to spend he just didn’t spend it wisely, and in the next few years your going to see the teams that want championships ignoring the salary cap like the Dodgers have and spending what they have to to win (330 million salary and 47 million in penalty tax) MLB totally blew it by not caping players salary, the money they demand will keep any team from competing unless they ignore the salary cap, so in my opinion this is the wrong era to try and operate a team on the cheap unless you don’t really care it you win

 

Let's be honest.

 

Year one, Bloom had to make serious cuts to the budget. He essentially had to trade Betts and Price just to have a few measly millions to try and make the 2020 team presentable. You can say he failed, but seriously, who could have produced a winner on that winter spending budget and ERod and Sale out all year?

 

Year two, one could view having spending $40M as more than what most teams get, and you'd be right, but the roster had at least 10 slots to fill without even being able to address adding depth beyond those 10 without doing it by waiver-wire, Rule 5 or minor league free agency. Again, did you expect much better than what the team gave us in 2021 on $40M for 10+ slots?

 

Year three, looked like another limited budget, until the big Story splash. No doubt, Bloom is responsible for the Story signing and adding to the budget with the JBJ trade. The Wacha, Hill and Strahm signings were okay, considering the budget limits. All earned their pay, and the year is not over. Even Story is still 2nd in RBIs, despite having way less PAs than Bogey, JD and others.

 

The spending goes in cycles, and IMO, we will spend large again, maybe as soon as this winter.

[moonslav59]

 

But the bottom line is, there are 29 other teams doing the exact same type of thing and seeing the exact same types of failures and successes. The Sox did similar things under Dombrowski and Cherington and Epstein. But no one ever said anything about it. Not even when Bogaerts was trying out 3b for the first time during a pennant run.

 

 

They hardly gave Bogey any prep time at 3B, even in the minors. I think they played him 10 games at 3B before throwing him into a new position in the heat of a ring run, as a rookie.

 

Some blamed that move on slowing his progress, out of the gate, but we won, and all was good in La-La Red Sox Nation.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Just sitting here wondering why the Red Sox would want to teach Dalbec how to play second base, he can’t play first he’s slow at third base and can’t hit, they already have Story and Arroyo there it would only make sense if they are planning on not signing Bogaerts and moving Story to short and using Dalbec at second or a utility infielder. Once again dumping salary and a good player and keeping an inferior player just because of his salary. I really don’t understand the Sox love affair with Dalbec he’s not a good player and should be traded if they can if not DFA him. He’s kinda like JBJ neither one can hit but at least JBJ could play great defence

 

The Red Sox love affair with Dalbec is perplexing to say the least. Maybe Bloom just sucks at evaluating talent? After all, this is same general manager who traded for Jackie Bradley and made him the starting RF against RHP. How much more evidence do we need to prove that Bloom walks around with his head up his ass half the time?

[Bobe2]

Most ring teams have 1 or 2 positions where a player is "passable," and utility IF'er is probably one area you can win without greatness.

 

I would not be happy with Dalbec or Arroyo as our utility IF'er, but if the rest of the team is solid, I'm okay with the idea.

 

Dalbec still has options, so he can be stashed in AAA as injury depth.

 

I like Arroyo, but he's always hurt.

 

In case you didn’t notice the rest of the team is not solid

[Fan_since_Boggs]

He’s had money to spend he just didn’t spend it wisely, and in the next few years your going to see the teams that want championships ignoring the salary cap like the Dodgers have and spending what they have to to win (330 million salary and 47 million in penalty tax) MLB totally blew it by not caping players salary, the money they demand will keep any team from competing unless they ignore the salary cap, so in my opinion this is the wrong era to try and operate a team on the cheap unless you don’t really care if you win

 

The Mets seem to be moving in this direction.

[Bobe2]

The Red Sox love affair with Dalbec is perplexing to say the least. Maybe Bloom just sucks at evaluating talent? After all, this is same general manager who traded for Jackie Bradley and made him the starting RF against RHP. How much more evidence do we need to prove that Bloom walks around with his head up his ass half the time?

Traded a 30 HR guy for Bradley

[notin]

The Red Sox love affair with Dalbec is perplexing to say the least. Maybe Bloom just sucks at evaluating talent? After all, this is same general manager who traded for Jackie Bradley and made him the starting RF against RHP. How much more evidence do we need to prove that Bloom walks around with his head up his ass half the time?

 

 

Dalbec was in the Sox organization long before Bloom. And he did finish very strong last year, posting a .900 OPS from June 15 until the end of the year.

 

They clearly don’t have any sort of deep infatuation with him, which is why they kept trying others (Shaw, Cordero, Vazquez) at the position and possibly just viewed him as a placeholder for Casas…

[notin]

Traded a 30 HR guy for Bradley

 

The same talent evaluation that determined Bradley could bounce back also pegged the unprotected Whitlock in the Rule 5 draft (after several teams passed on him) and grabbed John Schreiber off the waiver wire.

 

There’s been good and bad. Evaluate him off both…

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Dalbec was in the Sox organization long before Bloom. And he did finish very strong last year, posting a .900 OPS from June 15 until the end of the year.

 

They clearly don’t have any sort of deep infatuation with him, which is why they kept trying others (Shaw, Cordero, Vazquez) at the position and possibly just viewed him as a placeholder for Casas…

 

I know: Dalbec got hot in the latter stages of last season but there were still people who were very concerned about his future due to his fringy hit tool and that offensive success was something Dalbec wouldn't sustain. It wasn't that hard to figure out.

[Bellhorn04]

The Red Sox love affair with Dalbec is perplexing to say the least. Maybe Bloom just sucks at evaluating talent? After all, this is same general manager who traded for Jackie Bradley and made him the starting RF against RHP. How much more evidence do we need to prove that Bloom walks around with his head up his ass half the time?

 

Disagree. 2021 was Dalbec's first full season. He had an OPS of .792, 25 HR and 78 RBI in 133 games. And he's still making minimum wage. I don't really see ripping Bloom because he thought that was good value.

[Bobe2]

Let's be honest.

 

Year one, Bloom had to make serious cuts to the budget. He essentially had to trade Betts and Price just to have a few measly millions to try and make the 2020 team presentable. You can say he failed, but seriously, who could have produced a winner on that winter spending budget and ERod and Sale out all year?

 

Year two, one could view having spending $40M as more than what most teams get, and you'd be right, but the roster had at least 10 slots to fill without even being able to address adding depth beyond those 10 without doing it by waiver-wire, Rule 5 or minor league free agency. Again, did you expect much better than what the team gave us in 2021 on $40M for 10+ slots?

 

Year three, looked like another limited budget, until the big Story splash. No doubt, Bloom is responsible for the Story signing and adding to the budget with the JBJ trade. The Wacha, Hill and Strahm signings were okay, considering the budget limits. All earned their pay, and the year is not over. Even Story is still 2nd in RBIs, despite having way less PAs than Bogey, JD and others.

 

The spending goes in cycles, and IMO, we will spend large again, maybe as soon as this winter.

 

All I’m seeing here are lame excuses, would Boston have fallen into the ocean if he didn’t trade Betts, Price and Benintendi that first year, It certainly would have been a better team if he hadn’t

[Fan_since_Boggs]

If a general manager couldn't see Dalbec's long swing, inability to lay off the high fastball, low contact rates, and conclude that Dalbec was a risky player going forward, a player with a fringy hit tool, then that GM shouldn't be running a team.

 

Should Bloom have seen this? Yeah, why not. Fans saw it, you would expect a GM to see it too.

 

And Casas was probably a year away. Bloom went into this season without a competent plan at 1b, together with his horrendous OF decisions, and the fact that the Red Sox basically got nothing for Mookie Betts (Bloom's fault). All of these factors matter when evaluating Bloom--he has made a lot moves that didn't work out. He inherited a core of some really good players, Devers, Bogaerts, and Martinez has declined but can still hit. And Bloom completely failed to obtain some moderately decent offensive players to supplement that core. That's pathetic.

Edited August 12, 2022 by Fan_since_Boggs

[Old Red]

The same talent evaluation that determined Bradley could bounce back also pegged the unprotected Whitlock in the Rule 5 draft (after several teams passed on him) and grabbed John Schreiber off the waiver wire.

 

There’s been good and bad. Evaluate him off both…

I myself evaluate Bloom on EVERY move he makes, and the overall record of the team.Whitlock, and Schreiber doesn’t offset all the bad moves he’s made.

Edited August 12, 2022 by Old Red

[Old Red]

Disagree. 2021 was Dalbec's first full season. He had an OPS of .792, 25 HR and 78 RBI in 133 games. And he's still making minimum wage. I don't really see ripping Bloom because he thought that was good value.

 

I don’t blame Bloom for using Bobby D, but I do blame Bloom for Franchy at 1B, and waiting way way to long to getting a real 1B like Hosmer.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Is that really Bloom’s philosophy?

 

Others are complaining his philosophy is to acquire too many players who already play too many positions, like Marwin Gonzalez and Danny Santana,

 

And Cora (like many managers) does constantly try players at new positions in games and presumably in practice. For example, in 2019, he played Christian Vazquez and Michael Chavis at 2b, with the total prior experience was the 7 games Chavis played there in the minors. And that was BEFORE Bloom was hired.

 

But the bottom line is, there are 29 other teams doing the exact same type of thing and seeing the exact same types of failures and successes. The Sox did similar things under Dombrowski and Cherington and Epstein. But no one ever said anything about it. Not even when Bogaerts was trying out 3b for the first time during a pennant run.

 

Probably because fans use the phrase “natural position” for players, be it where they played in college or what appears on their baseball card, and assume that’s their defensive limit. Cora and, well, every manager ever bases the player’s position(s) on some part of their skill set that makes them think they can handle the position. In this case, Dalbec has yet to appear ina single game at 2b and people are complaining. The article also said he was taking flyballs in the outfield. Why no complaints?

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if Cora thought 1b was a bad match for Dalbec. His two biggest defensive assets are a very strong arm and surprising speed (he’s actually one of the fastest players on the team), neither of which is exploited at 1b.

 

That they’re trying him out for an in-game emergency or just seeing if there’s another position where he’s a better defensive fit, these are both good things.

 

Not to mention, so far it’s only been in practices…

 

Not criticizing nor applauding, just weighing in... John Kruk once famously said, "I'm not an athlete, lady, I'm a ballplayer" -- and yet, here's one poster who always assumed a big leaguer could adjust and play just about any position (including pitcher and catcher, which the majority of the best players still all play growing up).

 

But we can't forget the disaster that resulted when the Red Sox signed a square peg named Hanley Ramirez to fit the nook and crannies of the Green Monster. Or when Hawk Harrelson GMed the White Sox and made Carlton Fisk a left fielder for about a minute. Remember when Yaz and Johnny Bench tried to play third? There are just not a lot of Hall of Famers like Robin Yount who were stars at both shortstop and centerfield... or Ruth at lefty pitcher and bambinoer.

 

For sure, a lot of HOFers could've been great at a lot of things, like Williams at fighter pilot or fly fisherman, DiMaggio at landing movie starlets, Mays at anything. But average guys learning a new position at the MLB level?

 

Enough with trying to induct butter knives into the Swiss Army. Every tackle box needs a good Buck knife and an a actual fillet knife, too...

[Bobe2]

The same talent evaluation that determined Bradley could bounce back also pegged the unprotected Whitlock in the Rule 5 draft (after several teams passed on him) and grabbed John Schreiber off the waiver wire.

 

There’s been good and bad. Evaluate him off both…

There is no risk taking a player off the rule 5 draft or weavers I’m sure the Red Sox have a team of people just checking those things, if they didn’t work out they would be gone. He got lucky

[moonslav59]

The Red Sox love affair with Dalbec is perplexing to say the least. Maybe Bloom just sucks at evaluating talent? After all, this is same general manager who traded for Jackie Bradley and made him the starting RF against RHP. How much more evidence do we need to prove that Bloom walks around with his head up his ass half the time?

 

How many GMs in MLB would NOT give a 26 year old player, who started his career off with an .819 OPS and 33 HRs 94 RBIs in his first 156 games (497 ABs), a pretty long look?

 

Now, how long he and Cora stuck with him in 2021, which worked well in 201, but was a disaster, this season, is a point well-taken.

[moonslav59]

In case you didn’t notice the rest of the team is not solid

 

Oh, I noticed!

 

How do you massively cut your budget year one and then fill 10+ slots on $40M, year 2, and make the whole team solid?

 

You'd think our GM came from Tampa, or something... err... what? wait...

[moonslav59]

All I’m seeing here are lame excuses, would Boston have fallen into the ocean if he didn’t trade Betts, Price and Benintendi that first year, It certainly would have been a better team if he hadn’t

 

Lame excuse?

 

He was forced to cut the budget by a massive amount. You think he wanted to trade Betts?

[moonslav59]

There is no risk taking a player off the rule 5 draft or weavers I’m sure the Red Sox have a team of people just checking those things, if they didn’t work out they would be gone. He got lucky

 

Sounds like you're making excuses.

 

LOL!

 

Lucky here, but not unlucky there, I guess.

[MADSTORK]

Valdez (23 y/o)

.854 in A+ 2021

.880 AA '21

1.112 AA '22

.909 AAA '22

 

I'm not saying these numbers will translate to MLB well, or not, but I'm not sure what more should be expected, except decent fielding. The guy will probably DH or play 1B. He's not a blue chipper, but I did not expect one.

 

Abreu (just turned 23)

.740 A '19

.857 A+ '21

.858 AA '22

Sox prospects sees him maybe average on D at corner OF, eventually.

 

Maybe these two end up like Binelas & Hamilton- maybe not.

 

All I said was "rising prospects", since they are doing better and rose up in the Astros system rankings over the last 2 years. I never promised All Stars.

 

[/quote

 

Valdez is closer to 24 those stats were in AA ball, assigned to AAA he can’t hit his weight

I understand your point but to say Valdez is a prospect he is not, at best a reserve player which are a dime a dozen

 

Abreu is also an older prospect in AA, but his power numbers continue to climb and the scouts say very good arm and a plus defensive player at that position, which says to me, you might have a good player

 

Abreu assigned to AA Portland IMO is a mistake, I would have started him at Worcester and see what you got

[MADSTORK]

And Enmanuel Valdez is 23, making him nearly 3 1/2 years younger than the average age of the players in the International League…

 

Your thinking is wrong

In theory yes Valdez is younger but in reality Triple AAA baseball players at age 26 are cast-offs, beer leaguers and injured reserve fill ins

Legit Top prospects do not reside in AAA for long or at all

 

That is why Casas should be up not some 32 year old over paid beer leaguer and Dalbec whi has zero plate awareness

[MADSTORK]

Lame excuse?

 

He was forced to cut the budget by a massive amount. You think he wanted to trade Betts?

 

I don’t believe that for a second!!

 

I believe Henry wanted to rid the Team of a bad contract in price and Betts was the chip to do it

 

In hindsight they should have kept Mookie in 20 and dumped prospects with price to lower the contract going out they also could have moved Evoldi ERod and Bradley that winter

Again, Roster mismanagement

[Bobe2]

Sounds like you're making excuses.

 

LOL!

 

Lucky here, but not unlucky there, I guess.

There is no risk in taking a player off rule 5 if they don’t work out you return them with money ($100,000 I think) and they do have people watching the wire and someone off wavers you can DFA so there is no risk only luck

[moonslav59]

There is no risk in taking a player off rule 5 if they don’t work out you return them with money ($100,000 I think) and they do have people watching the wire and someone off wavers you can DFA so there is no risk only luck

 

What does risk have to do with luck?

 

Bloom saw something in Whitlock, Schreiber and Refsnyder other GMs did not see. He deserves credit for choosing correctly.

 

He saw something in others that ended up sucking, many out of the need to sign at min salary- much like rule 5 and waiver wire pick-up players snd rule 5 that failed, and you don't call that bad luck. You roast him for it.

[notin]

There is no risk in taking a player off rule 5 if they don’t work out you return them with money ($100,000 I think) and they do have people watching the wire and someone off wavers you can DFA so there is no risk only luck

 

The Rule 5 draft Carrie’s no risk but that doesn’t mean all successes are just luck…

[Elktonnick]

Is that really Bloom’s philosophy?

 

Others are complaining his philosophy is to acquire too many players who already play too many positions, like Marwin Gonzalez and Danny Santana,

 

And Cora (like many managers) does constantly try players at new positions in games and presumably in practice. For example, in 2019, he played Christian Vazquez and Michael Chavis at 2b, with the total prior experience was the 7 games Chavis played there in the minors. And that was BEFORE Bloom was hired.

 

But the bottom line is, there are 29 other teams doing the exact same type of thing and seeing the exact same types of failures and successes. The Sox did similar things under Dombrowski and Cherington and Epstein. But no one ever said anything about it. Not even when Bogaerts was trying out 3b for the first time during a pennant run.

 

Probably because fans use the phrase “natural position” for players, be it where they played in college or what appears on their baseball card, and assume that’s their defensive limit. Cora and, well, every manager ever bases the player’s position(s) on some part of their skill set that makes them think they can handle the position. In this case, Dalbec has yet to appear ina single

game at 2b and people are complaining. The article also said he was taking flyballs in the outfield. Why no complaints?

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if Cora thought 1b was a bad match for Dalbec. His two biggest defensive assets are a very strong arm and surprising speed (he’s actually one of the fastest players on the team), neither of which is exploited at 1b.

 

That they’re trying him out for an in-game emergency or just seeing if there’s another position where he’s a better defensive fit, these are both good things.

 

Not to mention, so far it’s only been in practices…

If you check the published record after Bloom was hired, it talks about him bringing the Rays " mix and match "" philosophy to Boston. Mix and match is exactly what he has done since coming here. In watching baseball for more than 65 years I have not seen this much moving guys all over the place as I have seen the last couple of years.

[moonslav59]

The Rule 5 draft Carrie’s no risk but that doesn’t mean all successes are just luck…

 

Picking up players off the waiver wire could be called "lucky," too, but some GMs do much better than others at finding helpful pieces that way.

 

Signing players at min salary or under $1-3M and watching them do well could be considered "luck," as well, since the large majority do not do well.

 

So, when Bloom is forced to sign most of his players at under $3M, isn't it expected and not really "bad luck" that most ended up sucking?

 

No, they want to blame Bloom for not getting lucky, but then discount the times he did get "lucky."

[Fan_since_Boggs]

I'm not saying they should fire Bloom, but he has made a lot of mistakes and he didn't perform very well this year. There is something wrong when you have the payroll the Red Sox have and are basically a .500 team. The GM has to take responsibility for that.

 

But all GMs make mistakes--Theo signed Carl Crawford, Cashman has made a ton of mistakes. And when did Theo or Cashman ever win a W.S. title with a small payroll? Theo and Cashman have spent big and to a large extent the spending is/was behind their success.

 

Bloom has added some talent to the farm system, but he has also done a lot of weird things and made some trades that didn't benefit the Red Sox at all. There is reason to be concerned about his judgment, but time will tell.....

[Old Red]

Picking up players off the waiver wire could be called "lucky," too, but some GMs do much better than others at finding helpful pieces that way.

 

Signing players at min salary or under $1-3M and watching them do well could be considered "luck," as well, since the large majority do not do well.

 

So, when Bloom is forced to sign most of his players at under $3M, isn't it expected and not really "bad luck" that most ended up sucking?

 

No, they want to blame Bloom for not getting lucky, but then discount the times he did get "lucky."

 

This has already been gone through. His not getting lucky outweighs the getting lucky, and the WL record shows that.