Fire Bloom .

[moonslav59]

I'm not saying they should fire Bloom, but he has made a lot of mistakes and he didn't perform very well this year. There is something wrong when you have the payroll the Red Sox have and are basically a .500 team. The GM has to take responsibility for that.

 

Of course, he bears some responsibility. How much is what could be what the discussion is about.

 

You brought up the payroll being high, but how much of that is on Bloom?

 

2020: Bloom's spending was less than what he was forced to dump. Should he have been expected to improve the team by spending less than what he had to trade away?

 

2021: He spent about $40M- almost all on 1 year deals:

$10M Richards

$8M Ottavino (trade that brought us German)

$7M x 2 Kike

$5M Perez (a year too early)

$3M Renfroe (a spectacular signing made with money saved in Beni deal)

$3M Marwin

$2M Andriese

$1.5M x 2 Sawamura

and a bunch of min salary deals.

Bloom carried over or added min salaries that included Pivetta, Whitlock, Verdugo, Arroyo and others

 

Out of $180M on the opening day player payroll, over $130 was DD's & Ben's:

25.6 Sale (out all year)

22.0 JD

20.0 Bogey

17.0 Nate

16. Price

10.0 ERod

4.6 Devers

4.6 Vaz

4.5 Barnes

1.6 Plawecki

1.3 Brasier

The rest were min salary leftover.

 

2020: This was where the budget became closer to 50-50: 50% Bloom guys and 50% DD & Ben. About $225M player salary. (2022 bWAR)

25.6 Sale (0.0)

22.0 JD (0.6)

20.0 Bogey (3.9)

17.0 Nate (0.7)

16.0 Price (0.0)

11.2 Devers (4.0)

7.0 Vaz (1.9 traded away)

2.3 Plawecki (-1.3)

1.4 Brasier (-0.5)

1.0 Taylor (Injured)

min Houck (1.6 T 4th best)

min Crawford (1.1 6th best)

Others make the total near $112.5M, which is half.

 

Bloom's guys:

23.3 Story (2.1 injured)

10.0 Paxton (0.0 more about 2023)

9.4 Barnes (extension)

7.0 Wacha (2.2 tops on team)

7.0 Kike (0.3 injured)

5.0 Hill (0.1)

3.5 Verdugo (-0.2)

3.5 Strahm (0.2)

3.0 Pivetta (2.1 second on team)

3.0 Diekman (traded away)

1.6 Sawamura (0.8)

1.2 Arroyo (0.4)

Min

Whitlock (1.6 4th on team)

Schreiber (2.1 third on team)

Refsnyder (0.6)

Davis (0.3)

Cordero (-0.5)

 

I'm not seeing Bloom making the team worse. I'm seeing a slow turnover of contracts from bad to better, overall.

[Old Red]

Of course, he bears some responsibility. How much is what could be what the discussion is about.

 

You brought up the payroll being high, but how much of that is on Bloom?

 

2020: Bloom's spending was less than what he was forced to dump. Should he have been expected to improve the team by spending less than what he had to trade away?

 

2021: He spent about $40M- almost all on 1 year deals:

$10M Richards

$8M Ottavino (trade that brought us German)

$7M x 2 Kike

$5M Perez (a year too early)

$3M Renfroe (a spectacular signing made with money saved in Beni deal)

$3M Marwin

$2M Andriese

$1.5M x 2 Sawamura

and a bunch of min salary deals.

Bloom carried over or added min salaries that included Pivetta, Whitlock, Verdugo, Arroyo and others

 

Out of $180M on the opening day player payroll, over $130 was DD's & Ben's:

25.6 Sale (out all year)

22.0 JD

20.0 Bogey

17.0 Nate

16. Price

10.0 ERod

4.6 Devers

4.6 Vaz

4.5 Barnes

1.6 Plawecki

1.3 Brasier

The rest were min salary leftover.

 

2020: This was where the budget became closer to 50-50: 50% Bloom guys and 50% DD & Ben. About $225M player salary. (2022 bWAR)

25.6 Sale (0.0)

22.0 JD (0.6)

20.0 Bogey (3.9)

17.0 Nate (0.7)

16.0 Price (0.0)

11.2 Devers (4.0)

7.0 Vaz (1.9 traded away)

2.3 Plawecki (-1.3)

1.4 Brasier (-0.5)

1.0 Taylor (Injured)

min Houck (1.6 T 4th best)

min Crawford (1.1 6th best)

Others make the total near $112.5M, which is half.

 

Bloom's guys:

23.3 Story (2.1 injured)

10.0 Paxton (0.0 more about 2023)

9.4 Barnes (extension)

7.0 Wacha (2.2 tops on team)

7.0 Kike (0.3 injured)

5.0 Hill (0.1)

3.5 Verdugo (-0.2)

3.5 Strahm (0.2)

3.0 Pivetta (2.1 second on team)

3.0 Diekman (traded away)

1.6 Sawamura (0.8)

1.2 Arroyo (0.4)

Min

Whitlock (1.6 4th on team)

Schreiber (2.1 third on team)

Refsnyder (0.6)

Davis (0.3)

Cordero (-0.5)

 

I'm not seeing Bloom making the team worse. I'm seeing a slow turnover of contracts from bad to better, overall.

 

Seen the WL record lately?

[notin]

Not criticizing nor applauding, just weighing in... John Kruk once famously said, "I'm not an athlete, lady, I'm a ballplayer" -- and yet, here's one poster who always assumed a big leaguer could adjust and play just about any position (including pitcher and catcher, which the majority of the best players still all play growing up).

 

But we can't forget the disaster that resulted when the Red Sox signed a square peg named Hanley Ramirez to fit the nook and crannies of the Green Monster. Or when Hawk Harrelson GMed the White Sox and made Carlton Fisk a left fielder for about a minute. Remember when Yaz and Johnny Bench tried to play third? There are just not a lot of Hall of Famers like Robin Yount who were stars at both shortstop and centerfield... or Ruth at lefty pitcher and bambinoer.

 

For sure, a lot of HOFers could've been great at a lot of things, like Williams at fighter pilot or fly fisherman, DiMaggio at landing movie starlets, Mays at anything. But average guys learning a new position at the MLB level?

 

Enough with trying to induct butter knives into the Swiss Army. Every tackle box needs a good Buck knife and an a actual fillet knife, too...

 

 

Seriously?

 

The Dodgers - that other team run by an ex-Ray exec - have been utilizing the very Swiss Army knife strategy you criticize. For maybe the past 10 or 12 years, using players like Jamey Carroll, Justin Turner, Chris Taylor and Kike Hernandez and using them not only as regulars, but in several cases, turning them into All Stars.

 

And as for players changing positions, I can promise you every team in MLB has a starter who started out playing another position. The best catcher in MLB? He used to be a shortstop. The most underrated shortstop in MLB? Used to be a catcher.

 

Heck Hall of Fame closer Trevor Hoffman? He started somewhere else too.

 

Every team in MLB has players who do this. Every team..

[Elktonnick]

Seriously?

 

The Dodgers - that other team run by an ex-Ray exec - have been utilizing the very Swiss Army knife strategy you criticize. For maybe the past 10 or 12 years, using players like Jamey Carroll, Justin Turner, Chris Taylor and Kike Hernandez and using them not only as regulars, but in several cases, turning them into All Stars.

 

And as for players changing positions, I can promise you every team in MLB has a starter who started out playing another position. The best catcher in MLB? He used to be a shortstop. The most underrated shortstop in MLB? Used to be a catcher.

 

Heck Hall of Fame closer Trevor Hoffman? He started somewhere else too.

 

Every team in MLB has players who do this. Every team..

 

You are conflating having former left fielders such as Yaz for example transition into 1st baseman late in their careers to what is happening today. Today Bloom is stocking his team with multiple utility players who can play anywhere as well as trying to convert guys like Codero Dalbec et al.into playing positions they are not well equipped to play.

Having one or two utility players on the 40 man roster is a good thing but one can carry it to an extreme. I think Bloom is over doing it.

[notin]

You are conflating having former left fielders such as Yaz for example transition into 1st baseman late in their careers to what is happening today. Today Bloom is stocking his team with multiple utility players who can play anywhere as well as trying to convert guys like Codero Dalbec et al.into playing positions they are not well equipped to play.

Having one or two utility players on the 40 man roster is a good thing but one can carry it to an extreme. I think Bloom is over doing it.

 

No, I’m telling you there’s a difference in moving Alex Gordon to LF or moving Craig Biggio from catcher to 2b than from having Bobby Dalbec practice at 2b because his manager (per the article) wants depth, presumably just in case.

 

It’s really not a big deal, but you are trying to make it one and make sure it’s the fault of the GM, who, as far as anyone else can tell, had nothing to do with it.

 

This type of thing happens all the time. Did yo know Mookie still takes groundballs at 2b? In fact, he always has, even through all his years with the Sox. Peter Gammons actually asked him why, since Mookie had long established himself as an elite outfielder. Mookie gave an obvious answer.

 

“In case I’m needed there.”

[moonslav59]

Maybe we should have kept Dalbec at 3B and traded Devers.

[Old Red]

Maybe we should have kept Dalbec at 3B and traded Devers.

 

Dalbec FOR FOREVERS.

[Old Red]

Here we go folks the last place in the Div, and wildcard standings update. 5 games back in the L column for last place, and 5 games back in the L column for the last wildcard spot. As always 1 game at a time, and let’s go Sox!

[Elktonnick]

No, I’m telling you there’s a difference in moving Alex Gordon to LF or moving Craig Biggio from catcher to 2b than from having Bobby Dalbec practice at 2b because his manager (per the article) wants depth, presumably just in case.

 

It’s really not a big deal, but you are trying to make it one and make sure it’s the fault of the GM, who, as far as anyone else can tell, had nothing to do with it.

 

This type of thing happens all the time. Did yo know Mookie still takes groundballs at 2b? In fact, he always has, even through all his years with the Sox. Peter Gammons actually asked him why, since Mookie had long established himself as an elite outfielder. Mookie gave an obvious answer.

 

“In case I’m needed there.”

Cora does what the front office tells him to do. Let's not pretend he has autonomy to make position changes. Everything he does has to be run by the analytics boys in Blooms office. They sign off on the daily lineup despite what Cora may say.otherwise.

[Old Red]

Cora does what the front office tells him to do. Let's not pretend he has autonomy to make position changes. Everything he does has to be run by the analytics boys in Blooms office. They sign off on the daily lineup despite what Cora may say.otherwise.

 

Remember that the nerds, and clones run the Red Sox.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Seriously?

 

The Dodgers - that other team run by an ex-Ray exec - have been utilizing the very Swiss Army knife strategy you criticize. For maybe the past 10 or 12 years, using players like Jamey Carroll, Justin Turner, Chris Taylor and Kike Hernandez and using them not only as regulars, but in several cases, turning them into All Stars.

 

And as for players changing positions, I can promise you every team in MLB has a starter who started out playing another position. The best catcher in MLB? He used to be a shortstop. The most underrated shortstop in MLB? Used to be a catcher.

 

Heck Hall of Fame closer Trevor Hoffman? He started somewhere else too.

 

Every team in MLB has players who do this. Every team..

 

Seriously. The first thing I said is I'm not criticizing. Then I said I've always assumed all professionals could play any position. And of course every team values versatility.

 

But it's been overdone here since Bloom came aboard -- and if it's a trend, then I challenge him to be crafty, and start a new one: target players of actual quality who play specific positions the team needs filled, and fill them. Since the Top-6 Payroll Sox will already be paying a luxury tax, what's stopping them from making some luxury purchases?

 

Is that such an outlandish request from a fan tired of watching mediocrity move around the diamond and in and out of the batting order... on a last place team?

[cukes]

Of course, he bears some responsibility. How much is what could be what the discussion is about.

 

You brought up the payroll being high, but how much of that is on Bloom?

 

2020: Bloom's spending was less than what he was forced to dump. Should he have been expected to improve the team by spending less than what he had to trade away?

 

2021: He spent about $40M- almost all on 1 year deals:

$10M Richards

$8M Ottavino (trade that brought us German)

$7M x 2 Kike

$5M Perez (a year too early)

$3M Renfroe (a spectacular signing made with money saved in Beni deal)

$3M Marwin

$2M Andriese

$1.5M x 2 Sawamura

and a bunch of min salary deals.

Bloom carried over or added min salaries that included Pivetta, Whitlock, Verdugo, Arroyo and others

 

Out of $180M on the opening day player payroll, over $130 was DD's & Ben's:

25.6 Sale (out all year)

22.0 JD

20.0 Bogey

17.0 Nate

16. Price

10.0 ERod

4.6 Devers

4.6 Vaz

4.5 Barnes

1.6 Plawecki

1.3 Brasier

The rest were min salary leftover.

 

2020: This was where the budget became closer to 50-50: 50% Bloom guys and 50% DD & Ben. About $225M player salary. (2022 bWAR)

25.6 Sale (0.0)

22.0 JD (0.6)

20.0 Bogey (3.9)

17.0 Nate (0.7)

16.0 Price (0.0)

11.2 Devers (4.0)

7.0 Vaz (1.9 traded away)

2.3 Plawecki (-1.3)

1.4 Brasier (-0.5)

1.0 Taylor (Injured)

min Houck (1.6 T 4th best)

min Crawford (1.1 6th best)

Others make the total near $112.5M, which is half.

 

Bloom's guys:

23.3 Story (2.1 injured)

10.0 Paxton (0.0 more about 2023)

9.4 Barnes (extension)

7.0 Wacha (2.2 tops on team)

7.0 Kike (0.3 injured)

5.0 Hill (0.1)

3.5 Verdugo (-0.2)

3.5 Strahm (0.2)

3.0 Pivetta (2.1 second on team)

3.0 Diekman (traded away)

1.6 Sawamura (0.8)

1.2 Arroyo (0.4)

Min

Whitlock (1.6 4th on team)

Schreiber (2.1 third on team)

Refsnyder (0.6)

Davis (0.3)

Cordero (-0.5)

 

I'm not seeing Bloom making the team worse. I'm seeing a slow turnover of contracts from bad to better, overall.

 

Neither Bloom or Cora will be fired, let's just hope for the best for 2023, build up the bottom of the order and injury depth and of course pitching, not an easy task but we can work on it

[notin]

Neither Bloom or Cora will be fired, let's just hope for the best for 2023, build up the bottom of the order and injury depth and of course pitching, not an easy task but we can work on it

 

Exactly.

 

Hope Sale can maybe reach 10-15 innings next season, Paxtonbounces back, Diekman stays away, Devers doesn’t.

 

And Bogaerts returns, although I have my doubts…

[Bellhorn04]

Exactly.

 

Hope Sale can maybe reach 10-15 innings next season, Paxtonbounces back, Diekman stays away, Devers doesn’t.

 

And Bogaerts returns, although I have my doubts…

 

$325 M for Devers

$175 M for Bogey

 

Man, those numbers look oddly familiar...

[Bobe2]

The Rule 5 draft Carrie’s no risk but that doesn’t mean all successes are just luck…

 

Not just the Sox but all teams claim dozens of players of weavers over the years, mostly to restock the minor leagues, most don’t work out for one reason or another but when one does it doesn’t make the GM a genius he’s just lucky they found lightening in a bottle, in Schribers case he was claimed in 2019 there’s no way anyone could say they new he would be this good, on Whitlock and the rule 5 it was a good grab but I wonder given Blooms obsession with pitchers if it was more a let’s give him a shot we got nothing to lose or he new something, and I’m not criticizing him here I think he knows more than most when it comes to recognizing pitching talent, but if he had to keep Whitlock on the roster all season with a mlb salary with no chance to give him back I wonder it he would have taken the chance, therefore low risk and he got lucky, it’s not an insult it’s part of the game

[notin]

Cora does what the front office tells him to do. Let's not pretend he has autonomy to make position changes. Everything he does has to be run by the analytics boys in Blooms office. They sign off on the daily lineup despite what Cora may say.otherwise.

 

Exactly what position changes are you talking about?

 

Dalbec has played 0 innings at 2b and 0 innings in the outfield. But Sox fans are freaking out in a panic because he practiced those positions - a clear sign that the GM thinks any player can play anywhere.

 

Meanwhile the Yankees remain a top the division with a left side of the infield manned by two former catchers.

 

As for Cora, I’m pretty sure he’s allowed to let players practice other positions with complete autonomy.

 

I’m also pretty sure (re: 100% positive) you’re making this a much bigger deal than it is…

[notin]

Cora does what the front office tells him to do. Let's not pretend he has autonomy to make position changes. Everything he does has to be run by the analytics boys in Blooms office. They sign off on the daily lineup despite what Cora may say.otherwise.

 

 

Also I’m pretty sure Cora has a lot more autonomy than you think.

[moonslav59]

Also I’m pretty sure Cora has a lot more autonomy than you think.

 

He probably has a big hand on deciding who is called up to replace injured players, too., in other words, is part of roster construction decisions,

 

I would not be surprised, if Bloom or any other top brass person tells Cora who to play and where. I'm not even sure they give many forceful suggestions. I'm sure they have discussions about choices, but Cora is the manager.

[notin]

He probably has a big hand on deciding who is called up to replace injured players, too., in other words, is part of roster construction decisions,

 

I would not be surprised, if Bloom or any other top brass person tells Cora who to play and where. I'm not even sure they give many forceful suggestions. I'm sure they have discussions about choices, but Cora is the manager.

 

I think the feeling for a lot of folks goes one of two ways.

 

“That didn’t work out at all!! Bad idea! Bloom doesn’t know anything!!”

 

Or

 

“That was a good idea! Thank God we have Cora making those decisions!!”

 

I would not be surprised at all of putting Arroyo in RF was completely Cora’s decision, and he did so because he wanted to find more ways to get Arroyo involved. And while it didn’t work out, I can respect that logic. Arroyo is a talented player whose biggest weakness is his durability, not his ability.

 

But it didn’t work - so it had to be Bloom!!

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I think the feeling for a lot of folks goes one of two ways.

 

“That didn’t work out at all!! Bad idea! Bloom doesn’t know anything!!”

 

Or

 

“That was a good idea! Thank God we have Cora making those decisions!!”

 

I would not be surprised at all of putting Arroyo in RF was completely Cora’s decision, and he did so because he wanted to find more ways to get Arroyo involved. And while it didn’t work out, I can respect that logic. Arroyo is a talented player whose biggest weakness is his durability, not his ability.

 

But it didn’t work - so it had to be Bloom!!

 

It was Bloom -- who didn't add a right-handed hitting outfielder to the roster before the season or before the mid-season trade deadline.

 

It is Cora -- who looks at the list of 25 available players given to him each night, and writes the names of the starting line-up... whether it's Arroyo, Dalbec or JD Martinez in right field.

 

Cora did a great job not trying Hansel Robles out there in RF; that could've hurt the team.

[moonslav59]

Arroyo has done pretty damn well, when he's healthy. There was no way he was going to play 2B, 3B or SS, unless there was an injury, so I can't blame Cora for trying him in the OF. The best spot would have been LF, but we already had too many LF'ers on the team.

 

Again, I go back to Dugo. Why not play Dugo in RF and Arroyo in LF?

 

Now that JBJ is gone, suddenly Dugo can play RF. I'm still puzzled.

[notin]

It was Bloom -- who didn't add a right-handed hitting outfielder to the roster before the season or before the mid-season trade deadline.

 

It is Cora -- who looks at the list of 25 available players given to him each night, and writes the names of the starting line-up... whether it's Arroyo, Dalbec or JD Martinez in right field.

 

Cora did a great job not trying Hansel Robles out there in RF; that could've hurt the team.

 

Yes Bloom did not add a RHH OF before the deadline. But my point is - did Cora want one in March/April?

[notin]

Arroyo has done pretty damn well, when he's healthy. There was no way he was going to play 2B, 3B or SS, unless there was an injury, so I can't blame Cora for trying him in the OF. The best spot would have been LF, but we already had too many LF'ers on the team.

 

Again, I go back to Dugo. Why not play Dugo in RF and Arroyo in LF?

 

Now that JBJ is gone, suddenly Dugo can play RF. I'm still puzzled.

 

 

Mostly because very few if any teams rotate players that way. Certainly his logic wasn’t “Verdugo is weak in RF so we’ll put the utility infielder out there and hope it works out better.” I think they just liked leaving Verdugo where he was as opposed to moving his position based on a SP…

[Bellhorn04]

Yes Bloom did not add a RHH OF before the deadline. But my point is - did Cora want one in March/April?

 

What about Pham? I'm confoozed.

 

Edit: I guess what you're saying is Pham was added AT the deadline.

Edited August 13, 2022 by Bellhorn04

[notin]

What about Pham? I'm confoozed.

 

Edit: I guess what you're saying is Pham was added AT the deadline.

 

We got to the point where we needed any outfielder.

 

Hernandez has been out. Bradley didn’t hit. Duran can’t field and doesn’t hit all that well.

 

I don’t think Bloom acquired Pham to platoon with Bradley and then released Bradley…

[Old Red]

Arroyo has done pretty damn well, when he's healthy. There was no way he was going to play 2B, 3B or SS, unless there was an injury, so I can't blame Cora for trying him in the OF. The best spot would have been LF, but we already had too many LF'ers on the team.

 

Again, I go back to Dugo. Why not play Dugo in RF and Arroyo in LF?

 

Now that JBJ is gone, suddenly Dugo can play RF. I'm still puzzled.

 

How many times are you going to keep saying we had to many LF crap? You are the only one saying it. Another OF preferably an RHH should have been added before the season started period. Dugo has played all 3 OF positions, but not to your liking just like Bogey isn’t a good enough, and Vaz wasn’t a good enough C. I think you are always puzzled no matter what happens.

[Old Red]

Yes Bloom did not add a RHH OF before the deadline. But my point is - did Cora want one in March/April?

 

He should have if he didn’t.

[Old Red]

Mostly because very few if any teams rotate players that way. Certainly his logic wasn’t “Verdugo is weak in RF so we’ll put the utility infielder out there and hope it works out better.” I think they just liked leaving Verdugo where he was as opposed to moving his position based on a SP…

 

More likely than this is the case.

Edited August 13, 2022 by Old Red

[Bellhorn04]

Refsnyder was signed in the offseason. For whatever reason he wasn't called up until June except for a few appearances in April.

[Bellhorn04]

As for Arroyo, some wanted him gone long ago, but now he's one of the team's hottest hitters. So maybe Bloom was right to keep him around.