Fire Bloom .

[Old Red]

As for Arroyo, some wanted him gone long ago, but now he's one of the team's hottest hitters. So maybe Bloom was right to keep him around.

 

Arroyo is a good player when healthy, but he doesn’t stay that way to often.

[Old Red]

Refsnyder was signed in the offseason. For whatever reason he wasn't called up until June except for a few appearances in April.

 

He was pretty much the last option, and only when all the injuries hit. It was puzzling.

[notin]

He should have if he didn’t.

 

Unless you count Refsnyder…

[notin]

He was pretty much the last option, and only when all the injuries hit. It was puzzling.

 

 

Not puzzling.

 

Cora gave Arroyo first chance. It didn’t work out. Refsnyder was called up as Plan B.

 

I think some people look for problems where there aren’t any…

[Bobe2]

Bloom will probably have two last place finishes in his first three years and no championships. The last three GM’s all won a championship in their first three years

[moonslav59]

Mostly because very few if any teams rotate players that way. Certainly his logic wasn’t “Verdugo is weak in RF so we’ll put the utility infielder out there and hope it works out better.” I think they just liked leaving Verdugo where he was as opposed to moving his position based on a SP…

 

Verdugo had played RF, and in Fenway, before. Arroyo had not.

 

Put the weaker defender in Fenway's LF. It's not rocket science. It's b een Red Sox strategy for over a century.

[moonslav59]

Bloom will probably have two last place finishes in his first three years and no championships. The last three GM’s all won a championship in their first three years

.

True, but maybe we can pass the O's.

 

Ben had 3 last place finishes. I hope Bloom doesn't match that.

 

I don't think he will. I'd like to add that I feel Ben was handed a better team, a better spending budget and a better farm than Bloom.

 

Last place is last place. There is no sugar-coating it, but 2020 was one major cluster, that in my opinion, cannot be blamed even 33% on Bloom, let alone more than 50% (if blame is your thing.)

[Hugh2]

How many times are you going to keep saying we had to many LF crap? You are the only one saying it. Another OF preferably an RHH should have been added before the season started period. Dugo has played all 3 OF positions, but not to your liking just like Bogey isn’t a good enough, and Vaz wasn’t a good enough C. I think you are always puzzled no matter what happens.

 

He’s not the only one saying it, the outfield is pretty much all left fielders. Dugo has played all 3, but his defense has taken a step back in LF. We had a centerfielder but he got hurt. JBJ is a centerifleder in defense only, but he’s gone. The team has all left fielders, that’s just a fact. Still another outfield bat would have been nice, didn’t have to be RH though.

[notin]

Verdugo had played RF, and in Fenway, before. Arroyo had not.

 

Put the weaker defender in Fenway's LF. It's not rocket science. It's b een Red Sox strategy for over a century.

 

The normal RF was Bradley, the superior defender…

[Hugh2]

.

True, but maybe we can pass the O's.

 

Ben had 3 last place finishes. I hope Bloom doesn't match that.

 

I don't think he will. I'd like to add that I feel Ben was handed a better team, a better spending budget and a better farm than Bloom.

 

Last place is last place. There is no sugar-coating it, but 2020 was one major cluster, that in my opinion, cannot be blamed even 33% on Bloom, let alone more than 50% (if blame is your thing.)

 

He took over a crap team a crap system, and had a 1/3 of a season. As far as I’m concerned the U.S. government should just pass legislation officially removing 2020 from the record books, for both life and sports.

 

So he’s 1 for 2 after this season, with this year having a well above average number of key injuries. Next year is the real show me year for Bloom.

[moonslav59]

The normal RF was Bradley, the superior defender…

 

I'm talking about when they played Arroyo in RF, instead of JBJ or Verdugo. Why not Dugo in RF and Arroyo in LF. Only those games.

[moonslav59]

He took over a crap team a crap system, and had a 1/3 of a season. As far as I’m concerned the U.S. government should just pass legislation officially removing 2020 from the record books, for both life and sports.

 

So he’s 1 for 2 after this season, with this year having a well above average number of key injuries. Next year is the real show me year for Bloom.

 

It seems to me, and I could be wrong, again, that the biggest Bloom bashers are the ones who were cliff deniers, and maybe they are just pissed that 2021 made them feel they were right about there never having to be a cliff. Now, they are just frustrated and bitter.

 

Just a theory.

[notin]

I'm talking about when they played Arroyo in RF, instead of JBJ or Verdugo. Why not Dugo in RF and Arroyo in LF. Only those games.

 

Maybe…

 

 

BECAUSE THEY DIDN’T WANT TO MOVE VERDUGO AROUND

[notin]

Verdugo had played RF, and in Fenway, before. Arroyo had not.

 

Put the weaker defender in Fenway's LF. It's not rocket science. It's b een Red Sox strategy for over a century.

 

Put the weaker defender in LF?

 

Let me ask Carl Yastrzemski and Ken Harrelson if that works…

[Hugh2]

It seems to me, and I could be wrong, again, that the biggest Bloom bashers are the ones who were cliff deniers, and maybe they are just pissed that 2021 made them feel they were right about there never having to be a cliff. Now, they are just frustrated and bitter.

 

Just a theory.

 

We warned people about the cliff year ago, and they did not listen. This is the result. Bloom took over a Sox farm system that was the worse it had been in years and an inflated unproductive payroll.

 

He’s spent the last several years turning that around. Obviously some posters don’t believe in that philosophy and think we should be the LA Dodgers, perhaps they’re right, but eventually they’re right. Eventually you have to cash in. One could argue that healthy this is a good team, and with a farm system built back up this off-season is the one to go for it.

[Hugh2]

To build upon my last post, this entails actually upgrades. No downgrades, avoid platoons if possible, no backups starting,

 

You can throw out a couple big contracts this off-season and you can also trade for a TOTRS. You will have to give up talent, but this is the game you play.

 

There’s a pretty intriguing free agent class coming up, I’m not sure what the trade market looks like for pitchers. Perhaps free agency is the way to go there as well.

[moonslav59]

Maybe…

 

 

BECAUSE THEY DIDN’T WANT TO MOVE VERDUGO AROUND

 

We've gone over this enough.

 

Wasn't moving him from RF to LF moving him around, too?

[moonslav59]

Put the weaker defender in LF?

 

Let me ask Carl Yastrzemski and Ken Harrelson if that works…

 

We had some pretty amazing defensive CF'er and RF'er in those days.

[moonslav59]

We warned people about the cliff year ago, and they did not listen. This is the result. Bloom took over a Sox farm system that was the worse it had been in years and an inflated unproductive payroll.

 

He’s spent the last several years turning that around. Obviously some posters don’t believe in that philosophy and think we should be the LA Dodgers, perhaps they’re right, but eventually they’re right. Eventually you have to cash in. One could argue that healthy this is a good team, and with a farm system built back up this off-season is the one to go for it.

 

Well said. BTW, I do not think Bloom is averse to trading away prospects, even top ones, when the moment is right.

 

The biggest Bloom bashers seem to be the ones that wanted us to go all in at the deadline, despite complaining about what a crappy team Bloom built.

 

This was not the year or the deadline to go all in or even moderately "in."

[Hugh2]

Well said. BTW, I do not think Bloom is averse to trading away prospects, even top ones, when the moment is right.

 

The biggest Bloom bashers seem to be the ones that wanted us to go all in at the deadline, despite complaining about what a crappy team Bloom built.

 

This was not the year or the deadline to go all in or even moderately "in."

 

Agreed, wanting to go for it when if the team is crappy is just dumb. Complaining about the team overall is well within their rights. I think the bashers don’t give enough credit to how much injuries derailed this team.

 

Still, they do have a few good points.

 

The JBJ trade is a real head scratcher.

They did not do enough to strengthen the pitching.

 

The last one is debatable because some of the pitching moves Bloom made actually looked pretty good until the injuries started piling up.

 

For a man dead set on building organizational depth, we seem to have lacked it where we needed it the most.

[Hugh2]

I would say not improving the outfield is another, but the JBJ trade still covers that. Regardless, this team would still be without a centerfielder right now

[moonslav59]

Agreed, wanting to go for it when if the team is crappy is just dumb. Complaining about the team overall is well within their rights. I think the bashers don’t give enough credit to how much injuries derailed this team.

 

Still, they do have a few good points.

 

The JBJ trade is a real head scratcher.

They did not do enough to strengthen the pitching.

 

The last one is debatable because some of the pitching moves Bloom made actually looked pretty good until the injuries started piling up.

 

For a man dead set on building organizational depth, we seem to have lacked it where we needed it the most.

 

Agreed,

 

I still have scabs from head-scratching at the time of the JBJ trade, and the financial aspects of the trade are still ongoing, despite no tax line hit next year. $8M is $8M, and I believe that is more than any lux tax this team has ever paid in a single year.

 

The 1B plan back-fired but was totally an acceptable pre-season plan.

 

The RH'd bat was supposed to be settled with the Story signing.

 

The OF plan back-fired when Kike went down, and replacing him was prolonged when he kept having set-back after set-backs.

 

The Wacha, Hill and Strahm signings seemed to be fine, until all got hurt. The Sale and Paxton injuries were know, but neither brought us late season help we had hoped for,.

 

I think the relative success of the fly-by-night pen of 2021 gave Bloom a false sense of security, there. He also swung and missed wildly on Diekman, although that was just $4M x 2. Maybe he hoped Whitlock and Houck could be kept in the pen more than they did, and our pen has looked much better, since they both joined it, but more pitching depth was something Bloom failed at. Maybe he hoped Crawford, Wink, Seabold or Bello could be ready, in time of need, but it seemed they really put off calling some of these kids up for longer than maybe they should have been. (Crawford and Seabold did not do well, when first called up, so maybe that was part of their resistance to call up Wink or give Crawford another look.)

 

All-in-all, Bloom chose to spend some of the precious dollars he had on JBJ, Story and Diekman. (The Barnes extension and Paxton signings, also hurt 2023's bottom line budget.)

 

I still have hope the Story signing will work out, despite scratching my head at the time he was signed, as well.

 

I'm hopeful Bloom will spend his projected $90M plus, this winter, wisely, but I can't blame people for having serious doubts about his higher ticket moves.

 

I called this winter Bloom's "flash point," and I still think it will be. I'm optimistic, knowing he will likely swing and miss on some moves, but I don't think he has to go 6 for 6, or even 5 for 7 in major moves for us to be better than 2021's team.

[notin]

We've gone over this enough.

 

Wasn't moving him from RF to LF moving him around, too?

 

Moving him from LF to RF is different when it’s a one time move, as opposed to having his position depend on the opposing starting pitcher.

 

Also, there’s a really good chance that the Sox don’t share the opinion of Verdugo’s defense…

[notin]

Agreed, wanting to go for it when if the team is crappy is just dumb. Complaining about the team overall is well within their rights. I think the bashers don’t give enough credit to how much injuries derailed this team.

 

Still, they do have a few good points.

 

The JBJ trade is a real head scratcher.

They did not do enough to strengthen the pitching.

 

The last one is debatable because some of the pitching moves Bloom made actually looked pretty good until the injuries started piling up.

 

For a man dead set on building organizational depth, we seem to have lacked it where we needed it the most.

 

Agreed.

 

Not sure why but for all the minor leaguers Bloom has accrued, only Winckowski (and Gambrell, who looked more like a throw-in) have been pitchers…

[Fan_since_Boggs]

The Red Sox have one of the worst OFs in all of baseball in terms of offensive production (bottom tier). The Red Sox have one of the worst bullpens in all of baseball (bottom tier). While I don't have the stats on the 1b position, I'm assuming the Red Sox are really really awful at the 1b position relative to the rest of the league.

 

This is Bloom's fault. The GM should be competent enough to avoid multiple bottom tier scenarios.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Maybe some posters are too overconfident that when Bloom finally has a bigger budget, he will actually spend it -- hopefully on quality big leaguers to finally "go for it."

 

But if your only evidence is that John Henry has a history of allowing past GMs to spend big -- "when the time is right" -- then you also have to admit that Henry hired Bloom, and hasn't fired him yet, for doing exactly what he is doing now.

 

The only long and large signing in the Bloom Era thus far has been Trevor Story... instead of say, Schwarber, Rodon and Jansen for around the same amount of money.

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe some posters are too overconfident that when Bloom finally has a bigger budget, he will actually spend it -- hopefully on quality big leaguers to finally "go for it."

 

But if your only evidence is that John Henry has a history of allowing past GMs to spend big -- "when the time is right" -- then you also have to admit that Henry hired Bloom, and hasn't fired him yet, for doing exactly what he is doing now.

 

The only long and large signing in the Bloom Era thus far has been Trevor Story... instead of say, Schwarber, Rodon and Jansen for around the same amount of money.

 

I highly doubt there are any HOBO's who don't spend the budget they're given.

[Bellhorn04]

The only long and large signing in the Bloom Era thus far has been Trevor Story... instead of say, Schwarber, Rodon and Jansen for around the same amount of money.

 

Schwarber, Rodon and Jansen have a combined 2022 AAV of about 58 million. That would add 35 million to this year's payroll for tax purposes, plus a pile of tax and other unpleasant stuff.

[Bobe2]

Schwarber, Rodon and Jansen have a combined 2022 AAV of about 58 million. That would add 35 million to this year's payroll for tax purposes, plus a pile of tax and other unpleasant stuff.

 

You sound like it’s coming out of your pocket instead of a multi billion dollar corporations

[notin]

Maybe some posters are too overconfident that when Bloom finally has a bigger budget, he will actually spend it -- hopefully on quality big leaguers to finally "go for it."

 

But if your only evidence is that John Henry has a history of allowing past GMs to spend big -- "when the time is right" -- then you also have to admit that Henry hired Bloom, and hasn't fired him yet, for doing exactly what he is doing now.

 

The only long and large signing in the Bloom Era thus far has been Trevor Story... instead of say, Schwarber, Rodon and Jansen for around the same amount of money.

 

And which one of those three was going to play 2b and alcohol become insurance at SS against not signing Bogaerts?

 

I suppose Rodon is the most logical choice despite being left-handed, because Schwarber and Jansen are both former catchers…