Fire Bloom .

[moonslav59]

The overall view of Bloom's deadline deals seems to be coming more into focus and favor among fans and posters.

 

We also added 4 prospects and lost Groome:

 

16. E Valdez: may compete for the 2B and DH openings, next year.

26. Wilyer Abreu: adding some OF depth we sorely needed

56. Corey Rosier: more OF depth with some upside on O

57. Max Ferguson: low level middle IF'er

 

Now that Hosmer is paid for, he has a +6.5 value on BTV.

McGuire is at +2.4

Pham is listed at -1.5

 

Prospects added:

2.1 W Abreu

1.8 Rosier

1.2 E Valdez

1.2 Ferguson

 

 

Draftees:

8.7 Romero

6.5 Coffey

2.1 Anthony

 

Traded away:

+3.5 Groome (prospect)

0.0 Vazquez

-4.3 Diekman

??? PTBNL for Pham

 

Total Trade BTV net?

+10.4 MLB talent (Hosmer/Pham/McGuire)

-4.3 MLB talent (Vaz & Diekman)

+14.7 Net gain

 

Prospects: +2.8 (pending PTBNL)

+6.3 (Abreu, Valdez, Rosier & Ferguson)

-3.5 Groome + PTBNL

 

TOTAL +17.5

[Bobe2]

That's understandable, but it was not really Bloom's choice to cut the budget by so much, he was forced to trade big salary.[/quote.

 

Henry and company have done this before I hope it doesn’t turn out the same as with the Marlins

[moonslav59]

That's understandable, but it was not really Bloom's choice to cut the budget by so much, he was forced to trade big salary.[/quote.

 

Henry and company have done this before I hope it doesn’t turn out the same as with the Marlins

 

I'd say the odds we become a low budget team is less than .01%.

 

It's cyclical.

 

This wasn't the season to go all in, and we can see why, now, right?

 

Maybe next year. Maybe 2024.

 

We will be big winter spenders, again. (We spent a lot, this past winter.)

[oldtimer]

 

I'd say the odds we become a low budget team is less than .01%.

 

It's cyclical.

 

This wasn't the season to go all in, and we can see why, now, right?

 

Maybe next year. Maybe 2024.

 

We will be big winter spenders, again. (We spent a lot, this past winter.)

 

Lots of essentially dead money still hanging over us. Sale, Price, Paxton, Barnes, JBJ. Some of that will clear for 2023.

[Hugh2]

The salary cap moves up next year, also if the Sox are willing to go over, you really have an additional 20 million to spend before the next threshold. This means in a year the team is looking to expand payroll they have up to $253 million to spend. Despite the criticism, the Sox have a history of going over the cap, not every year but often. With no options exercised and Bogaerts opting out this leaves the Sox with somewhere around 110-125 million to add. Cap moves up 4 million more and another 20 million coming off the books next year (probably eaten up by arbitration costs). Still, retaining Devers may be doable as well, especially if Story becomes tradable.

 

Sox can make big moves if they want, and if anything making big moves now preserves the farm for another year or two while Bloom still builds it up. I suspect something in between, the Sox will make a big splash or two this offseason but on top of that do a little bargain dumpster diving at the same time.

[Bellhorn04]

Henry and company have done this before I hope it doesn’t turn out the same as with the Marlins

 

Henry has been Red Sox owner for 20 years. I think you can relax now.

[notin]

The salary cap moves up next year, also if the Sox are willing to go over, you really have an additional 20 million to spend before the next threshold. This means in a year the team is looking to expand payroll they have up to $253 million to spend. Despite the criticism, the Sox have a history of going over the cap, not every year but often. With no options exercised and Bogaerts opting out this leaves the Sox with somewhere around 110-125 million to add. Cap moves up 4 million more and another 20 million coming off the books next year (probably eaten up by arbitration costs). Still, retaining Devers may be doable as well, especially if Story becomes tradable.

 

Sox can make big moves if they want, and if anything making big moves now preserves the farm for another year or two while Bloom still builds it up. I suspect something in between, the Sox will make a big splash or two this offseason but on top of that do a little bargain dumpster diving at the same time.

 

 

I agree the Sox can make big moves, but will they? Other than bringing back Xander or somehow landing Aaron Judge, is there much on the free agent market worth making this type of move on?

 

And I don’t think they will bring back Xander, and I don’t think Judge leaves the Bronx…

[Bellhorn04]

I agree the Sox can make big moves, but will they? Other than bringing back Xander or somehow landing Aaron Judge, is there much on the free agent market worth making this type of move on?

 

What pitchers are available, is kind of the key question IMHO.

[notin]

Henry has been Red Sox owner for 20 years. I think you can relax now.

 

Even when the Sox have “gone cheap,” the team still spends close to $190mill…

[notin]

What pitchers are available, is kind of the key question IMHO.

 

Especially if a few options get picked up, no one who makes my bellybutton pucker and unpucker

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/08/2022-23-mlb-free-agents.html

[Bobe2]

I agree the Sox can make big moves, but will they? Other than bringing back Xander or somehow landing Aaron Judge, is there much on the free agent market worth making this type of move on?

 

And I don’t think they will bring back Xander, and I don’t think Judge leaves the Bronx…

 

Totally agree, if the Yankees let Judge go they would look as stupid as the Sox do for trading Betts

[Maxbialystock]

 

Lots of essentially dead money still hanging over us. Sale, Price, Paxton, Barnes, JBJ. Some of that will clear for 2023.

 

Love the phrase "dead money," but thing Sale, Paxton, and Barnes can still contribute. This year the Sox are paying Price, Sale, and Eovaldi $63M for contributing a combined WAR of +1.0--which absolutely meets the standard for "dead money."

[Bellhorn04]

Love the phrase "dead money," but thing Sale, Paxton, and Barnes can still contribute. This year the Sox are paying Price, Sale, and Eovaldi $63M for contributing a combined WAR of +1.0--which absolutely meets the standard for "dead money."

 

There is, of course, an outside chance Eovaldi's money can be resurrected by the end of the season.

[Bobe2]

Even when the Sox have “gone cheap,” the team still spends close to $190mill…

 

190 million is a lot of money and raising the cap to $250 million will help, but I think it’s too little too late, with the salaries climbing to ridiculous levels I can’t imagine a guy batting .254 with 22 HR turning down over $400,000,000,00 to play a child’s game. They owners lost an opportunity to cap players salaries during negotiations, so how do you build a team and stay under the cap and win, you don’t. The teams spending and getting the best players available for their teams will be teams going to and winning the championships. I’m not for large contracts, nobody is worth that money just imagine a $300,000,000.00 contract for ten years 30 million a year, if the player gets 500 at bats that’s $60,000.00 per at bat ( I realize that because of taxes and other expenses it actually won’t be that high) a lot of people don’t make that much in a year in this country. The Yankees are the next team to make a choice if they sign or don’t sign judge

[moonslav59]

I agree the Sox can make big moves, but will they? Other than bringing back Xander or somehow landing Aaron Judge, is there much on the free agent market worth making this type of move on?

 

And I don’t think they will bring back Xander, and I don’t think Judge leaves the Bronx…

 

I think adding 2 to 3 players from this list would be better than adding just one from Bogey/Turner or Judge:

 

SS: Swanson or 2B K Wong (SS Tim Anderson, if 3.)

CF: Nimmo (maybe Kike if 3)

C: Narvaez

SP: Rodon (maybe Wacha, Morton, Bassitt or Gray if 3)

RP: E Diaz

[moonslav59]

190 million is a lot of money and raising the cap to $250 million will help, but I think it’s too little too late, with the salaries climbing to ridiculous levels I can’t imagine a guy batting .254 with 22 HR turning down over $400,000,000,00 to play a child’s game. They owners lost an opportunity to cap players salaries during negotiations, so how do you build a team and stay under the cap and win, you don’t. The teams spending and getting the best players available for their teams will be teams going to and winning the championships. I’m not for large contracts, nobody is worth that money just imagine a $300,000,000.00 contract for ten years 30 million a year, if the player gets 500 at bats that’s $60,000.00 per at bat ( I realize that because of taxes and other expenses it actually won’t be that high) a lot of people don’t make that much in a year in this country. The Yankees are the next team to make a choice if they sign or don’t sign judge

 

We have a nice framework to start with and some young talent looking to join the team over the next few years. (I count about 6-7 in 2023, alone.)

 

If we spend $100-125M, this winter, we should be much better than this year and 2021, which ever is the best year of the players we will be losing:

Bogey

JD

Nate

Wacha

Kike

Vaz

Strahm

Hill

 

then, there are Price's money, Plawecki and some option players or non-tenders to consider.

[moonslav59]

Totally agree, if the Yankees let Judge go they would look as stupid as the Sox do for trading Betts

 

Worse, if they just get a comp pick.

[Bellhorn04]

Worse, if they just get a comp pick.

 

But they would have looked pretty crazy trading him this year.

[moonslav59]

But they would have looked pretty crazy trading him this year.

 

No doubt.

 

Even if they traded him, last winter, they'd be getting a big earful, now.

 

(If they win it all, not trading him will prove to be the right move, even if they lose him. Besides, "losing him" will just mean they spend his money elsewhere, and the loss will not be that great, except to shallow fans.)

[Old Red]

No doubt.

 

Even if they traded him, last winter, they'd be getting a big earful, now.

 

(If they win it all, not trading him will prove to be the right move, even if they lose him. Besides, "losing him" will just mean they spend his money elsewhere, and the loss will not be that great, except to shallow fans.)

 

I don’t know what is meant by shallow fans, but to say if Judge is lost, and the money is spent elsewhere the loss won’t be that great. How do you know that?. Just, because you have money to spend doesn’t mean that Judge could be replaced, and the team would be better. Are the Red Sox better by losing Betts? I think it’s not a given that because you have money to spend the team like the Yankees, or Red Sox will be better. I’m not saying it won’t happen, but it’s far from a given that it will. Betts, Judge, Bogey, and Raffy are hard players to replace no matter how much money you have to spend.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Are the Red Sox better by losing Betts? I think it’s not a given that because you have money to spend the team like the Yankees, or Red Sox will be better. I’m not saying it won’t happen, but it’s far from a given that it will. Betts, Judge, Bogey, and Raffy are hard players to replace no matter how much money you have to spend.

 

When it happened, the guy who traded him said they weren't. But you'll still get arguments about how the Sox were gonna suck either way in 2020, and that all the money saved on Betts was sunk into great signings (like two Wachas, instead of 10 Diekmans).

 

How any part of a budget is specifically spent is all conjecture, no matter what; as if trading Benintendi's salary specifically allowed Bloom to sign Renfroe, instead of say, paying off a fraction of Price's contract to LA to make sure he no longer pitches in Boston.

 

Teams have been locking up young stars at reasonable lifetime riches longterm since Cleveland in the 1990s. The Braves are getting done now, but the Astros and even the Yankees (with a few players) have retained part of their cores this way recently.

 

For some reason, the Red Sox always seem to push lowball offers too late, and push favorites away, like Lester and Betts. Devers could be next. Bogey was an exception, but only because he wanted to stay in Boston so badly. Why do all our front office intellects assume every good player has the same love affair with Beantown...

[Bellhorn04]

For some reason, the Red Sox always seem to push lowball offers too late, and push favorites away, like Lester and Betts. Devers could be next. Bogey was an exception, but only because he wanted to stay in Boston so badly. Why do all our front office intellects assume every good player has the same love affair with Beantown...

 

In the case of Betts, maybe they assumed he didn't like Boston at all, and when they got his counter offer, it confirmed it...

[Old Red]

In the case of Betts, maybe they assumed he didn't like Boston at all, and when they got his counter offer, it confirmed it...

 

$300M to me is not a lowball offer to anybody. Lester was a lowball offer, and what Bloom offered Bogey, and Raffy before the season was lowball.

[moonslav59]

When it happened, the guy who traded him said they weren't. But you'll still get arguments about how the Sox were gonna suck either way in 2020, and that all the money saved on Betts was sunk into great signings (like two Wachas, instead of 10 Diekmans).

 

How any part of a budget is specifically spent is all conjecture, no matter what; as if trading Benintendi's salary specifically allowed Bloom to sign Renfroe, instead of say, paying off a fraction of Price's contract to LA to make sure he no longer pitches in Boston.

 

Teams have been locking up young stars at reasonable lifetime riches longterm since Cleveland in the 1990s. The Braves are getting done now, but the Astros and even the Yankees (with a few players) have retained part of their cores this way recently.

 

For some reason, the Red Sox always seem to push lowball offers too late, and push favorites away, like Lester and Betts. Devers could be next. Bogey was an exception, but only because he wanted to stay in Boston so badly. Why do all our front office intellects assume every good player has the same love affair with Beantown...

 

The Braves just locked up another young stud.

 

Do it early!

[moonslav59]

When it happened, the guy who traded him said they weren't. But you'll still get arguments about how the Sox were gonna suck either way in 2020, and that all the money saved on Betts was sunk into great signings (like two Wachas, instead of 10 Diekmans).

 

How any part of a budget is specifically spent is all conjecture, no matter what; as if trading Benintendi's salary specifically allowed Bloom to sign Renfroe, instead of say, paying off a fraction of Price's contract to LA to make sure he no longer pitches in Boston..

 

Yes, totally conjecture, but it's also conjecture to know for sure just how good Betts, Beni, Boegy, Nate and Devers will be after they walk, until hindsight. Letting others walk worked out well.

 

Also, in hindsight, you can see who the GM signed after the FA walked.

 

In Beni's case. I think it's pretty obvious Bloom moved to fill the open OF slot with Renfroe, but one could argue with mrwin, and the point takes on a very different hue.

 

[jad]

$300M to me is not a lowball offer to anybody. Lester was a lowball offer, and what Bloom offered Bogey, and Raffy before the season was lowball.

 

But then, in prof. sports, where 'value' is not really calculable, it doesn't matter how you and I evaluate an offer. All that matters is 'market value': and the RS did not offer him that, as the LAD offer proved.

[Old Red]

But then, in prof. sports, where 'value' is not really calculable, it doesn't matter how you and I evaluate an offer. All that matters is 'market value': and the RS did not offer him that, as the LAD offer proved.

 

You’re right all it takes is one to set the market higher than anyone else wants to take it, which is the only way I would see Judge leaving the Yankees.

[moonslav59]

But then, in prof. sports, where 'value' is not really calculable, it doesn't matter how you and I evaluate an offer. All that matters is 'market value': and the RS did not offer him that, as the LAD offer proved.

 

Even that rubric is flawed, because things changed that off season, and often do.

 

Take the Kimbrel trade. When we traded so many prospects for him, he was making at or near top closer FA market money, and that was one part of the deal I thought was the balance-breaker against the deal, but quickly, the closer "market clost" rose so much, his deal was an underpay for all 3 years.

 

The offer we made to Betts was not really that much lower than the offer he ended up signing. It was the 2 extra years that made up the difference. I'm not claiming that's not huge, but I'm not sure I'd say the reported offer to Betts was "lowball."

 

Lester- YES!

 

Bogey- YES!

 

Devers- ??? (Does anyone know what it was? Plus, it may not be their final offer.)

[Old Red]

The Braves just locked up another young stud.

 

Do it early!

 

I agree, but now it’s way to late to do it with Raffy.

[Bellhorn04]

But then, in prof. sports, where 'value' is not really calculable, it doesn't matter how you and I evaluate an offer. All that matters is 'market value': and the RS did not offer him that, as the LAD offer proved.

 

What we'll never know is whether COVID-19 impacted Mookie's decision to take the Dodgers offer, which was really not much better than the Red Sox offer, especially since it included a pile of deferred money.