2022 Spring Training

[Old Red]

Not to mention, the entire point with Ball is he was #7 overall and how horrible and “devastating” it was to fail with a pick that high. Houck was 24th. Is missing with tthe 24th pick supposed to be equally devastating?

 

If you draft a pitcher? yes.

[Nick]

Ok, I take back every bad comment about JBJ. A homer.

 

I was dead set against Kike leading off too.

[Old Red]

Raffy is ready.

[notin]

If you draft a pitcher? yes.

 

 

No even remotely true.

 

The same year the Sox took Ball at #7, the Astros selected RHP Mark Appel at #1 overall. It’s hard to argue that a team that has been in the last 5 ALCS was devastated by a single flubbed pick. Unless this is one of those devastations with no devastating effects.

 

Fans get far too worked up over drafts in any sport, as evidenced by the NFL and NBA actually televising them. While they do absolutely matter, teams don’t get devastated when something goes wrong with a single pick…

[Old Red]

No even remotely true.

 

The same year the Sox took Ball at #7, the Astros selected RHP Mark Appel at #1 overall. It’s hard to argue that a team that has been in the last 5 ALCS was devastated by a single flubbed pick. Unless this is one of those devastations with no devastating effects.

 

Fans get far too worked up over drafts in any sport, as evidenced by the NFL and NBA actually televising them. While they do absolutely matter, teams don’t get devastated when something goes wrong with a single pick…

 

This whole Ball thing started when I just asked the question what happened to Trey Ball? Amazing that it has caused so much excitement.

[Bellhorn04]

This whole Ball thing started when I just asked the question what happened to Trey Ball? Amazing that it has caused so much excitement.

 

It Snow Balled.

[moonslav59]

Let's remember Houck missed some time, last year and had just 10.1 IP in the first half of the season.

 

4.35 ERA 1st half (1.45 WHIP in 10.1 IP)

 

3.38 ERA 2nd half (1.07 WHIP in 58.2 IP)

 

OPS against by month:

 

.806 April (45 PA against)

 

.335 July (44)

.741 Aug (100)

.493 Sept (96)

 

0.677 WHIP in 10.1 playoff innings, but the 3 HRs really hurt (5.23 ERA)

 

Houck has done really well in the small and scattered sample size he has in the bigs. His overall MLB numbers dwarf his AAA and minor league numbers.

 

ERA/WHIP

 

2.93/1.08 MLB (86 IP)

 

4.17/1.39 minors (270 IP)

 

3.92/1.04 college (301 IP)

 

 

4.11/1.28 AAA (46 IP)

4.25/1.43 AA (82 IP)

4.24/1.43 A+ (119 IP)

3.63/1.30 A- (22 IP

 

 

 

[notin]

This whole Ball thing started when I just asked the question what happened to Trey Ball? Amazing that it has caused so much excitement.

 

Technically it happened when someone called it “devastating.” It was, at worst, disappointing…

[Old Red]

Technically it happened when someone called it “devastating.” It was, at worst, disappointing…

 

I didn’t call it devastating, but my main point was that the Sox through all the years I’ve been following them is they have had a hard time drafting, and developing good starting pitching.

[notin]

I didn’t call it devastating, but my main point was that the Sox through all the years I’ve been following them is they have had a hard time drafting, and developing good starting pitching.

 

 

You weren’t the first, but not only did you agree it was devastating, you held Houck (whom you called “inconsistent”) to the same standard as a #7 overall pick…

[Old Red]

You weren’t the first, but not only did you agree it was devastating, you held Houck (whom you called “inconsistent”) to the same standard as a #7 overall pick…

 

I was talking about #1 picks in general. The higher you pick someone doesn’t mean they are better, or even turn out better, and that goes for all sports, so I don’t look at what pick in what round as much like most others do.

[notin]

I was talking about #1 picks in general. The higher you pick someone doesn’t mean they are better, or even turn out better, and that goes for all sports, so I don’t look at what pick in what round as much like most others do.

 

 

Doesn’t matter. First round drafts picks flub every year in every sport. Why do people pin such lofty expectations on high school and college athletes?

 

Even the teams don’t do it. I’ve never seen a GM in any sport fired over a single draft pick.

 

And really, why do you put so much emphasis on being a first rounder, when by your own repeated admission, you don’t care about prospects until they reach the major league club? Even if they’ve on the 40 man roster, which is technically “reaching the major league club”? First round draft picks are just prospects, after all…

[moonslav59]

Doesn’t matter. First round drafts picks flub every year in every sport. Why do people pin such lofty expectations on high school and college athletes?

 

Even the teams don’t do it. I’ve never seen a GM in any sport fired over a single draft pick.

 

And really, why do you put so much emphasis on being a first rounder, when by your own repeated admission, you don’t care about prospects until they reach the major league club? Even if they’ve on the 40 man roster, which is technically “reaching the major league club”? First round draft picks are just prospects, after all…

 

The whole "wait til next year" mantra and feeling is often based on the assumption your team can improve- sometimes magically.

 

The draft is one way that can happen, so fans hopes, sometimes against all odds, their team can score that "special player" in the draft.

 

Yes, expectations are always high and almost always higher than they should be, but many teams have become great based on one or two key draft picks. That is why that hope never goes away, and with hope, there is often disappointment- sometimes deep disappointment.

[Old Red]

Doesn’t matter. First round drafts picks flub every year in every sport. Why do people pin such lofty expectations on high school and college athletes?

 

Even the teams don’t do it. I’ve never seen a GM in any sport fired over a single draft pick.

 

And really, why do you put so much emphasis on being a first rounder, when by your own repeated admission, you don’t care about prospects until they reach the major league club? Even if they’ve on the 40 man roster, which is technically “reaching the major league club”? First round draft picks are just prospects, after all…

 

I understand that #1 picks in every sport flub every year. Why do people put such lofty expectations on high school, and college athletes? That’s an easy one, because that’s where the professionals come from. You may call a prospect that is on the 40 man club as technically reaching the major league club, but like I keep saying they mean nothing to me unless they are playing in Boston, and producing, or used as a trade chip. Bottom line still is the Red Sox have not been good at drafting, and producing good starting pitching no matter what round they were drafted in.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Old Red

[Old Red]

Good job by Tony Mass on his first NESN gig today. Even had some good Bogey talk, by him, and OB.

[moonslav59]

8 on the 40 man roster.

 

It would have been nice if Ball had even been a middle reliever, but, again, we’re talking about one pick almost 10 years ago. And one failure in only one method of acquiring young pitching.

 

The Sox have acquired numerous other young, cheap, controllable pitchers via other methods (trade, IFA, Rule 5 draft). Is there any difference between drafted pitchers and pitchers acquired by any other method?

 

For years, Sox fans kept crying “we haven’t developed a starter since Lester”. Odd, as it forgets about Buchholz. And also, we had other equivalent (in terms of control, salary, service time, etc.) starters like ERod on the staff serving the exact same purpose.

 

One could argue some of the arms traded away, like Montas, for example, were far more detrimental than not hitting the mark on a single draft pick…

 

Maybe because we rarely get picks as high as #7, people hoped we'd strike gold when we finally did.

 

You're right, we have done well acquiring young and not-so-young pitchers in other ways than drafting. Guys like Erod and Whitlock never pitched a single pitch in the bigs, before coming to the Sox, but they don't count as "home grown," because they were not drafted or signed as IFAs.

 

No doubt, we all wish we had struck gold more often with out drafted pitchers, but we've done alright in other areas and seem to have a lot of promising young pitchers in the system- perhaps more than we've seen for over a decade.

 

Here's a breakdown of our pitchers:

 

Red=not on 40 man roster

 

Drafted:

Houck

Barnes

Crawford

Groome

C Murphy

B Walter

N Song

T Ward

 

IFA:

DHern

Bello

Mata

Bazardo

W Gonzalez

Rule 5:

Whitlock

 

Waivers:

Valdez

R Garza

 

Acquired by trade:

Sale (extended)

Eovaldi (extended)

Pivetta

Seabold

Taylor

A Davis

Winckowski

 

 

Free Agent:

Paxton

Wacha

Hill

Diekman

Strahm

Sawamura

 

Minor league FA:

Brasier

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I have to say I'm just obliterated that some posters have spent all day decimating one single adjective repeated in sardonism to describe a moment in history that everyone has the right to opine about in any way they want to obfuscate.

[jad]

I have to say I'm just obliterated that some posters have spent all day decimating one single adjective repeated in sardonism to describe a moment in history that everyone has the right to opine about in any way they want to obfuscate.

 

Ha ha! It was painful, reading through this thread, opening up comments of so many I've blocked, trying to find what that word is!

[Larry Cook]

Devers had a day today. Pitchers who get too much white and not enough black of the plate, risk a neck injury watching the ball leave the city when devers is at bat.

[notin]

I understand that #1 picks in every sport flub every year. Why do people put such lofty expectations on high school, and college athletes? That’s an easy one, because that’s where the professionals come from. You may call a prospect that is on the 40 man club as technically reaching the major league club, but like I keep saying they mean nothing to me unless they are playing in Boston, and producing, or used as a trade chip. Bottom line still is the Red Sox have not been good at drafting, and producing good starting pitching no matter what round they were drafted in.

 

It amazes me you can get anywhere what with all that backtracking

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Devers had a day today. Pitchers who get too much white and not enough black of the plate, risk a neck injury watching the ball leave the city when devers is at bat.

 

Ha, that made me laugh... and then I did again, thinking of the guys who try to look cool or are so disgusted they won't look, because they know the pitch they just threw ain't coming back.

[Kimmi]

We read a lot on here about all the blunders the Red Sox organization has made.

 

Considering that the Red Sox have the most championships of any team this century, just think of all the blunders the other teams must be making!

 

I have neighbors who are Reds' fans. They would kill to be in our shoes, as I'm sure fans of most other teams would be.

 

Red Sox fans have it really, really good.

[moonslav59]

I have neighbors who are Reds' fans. They would kill to be in our shoes, as I'm sure fans of most other teams would be.

 

Red Sox fans have it really, really good.

 

Since '04, yes.

[moonslav59]

It amazes me you can get anywhere what with all that backtracking

 

"One step up and two steps back..."

[TylerD]

Diek really struggling today wow. Loaded bases. 1-0 Minnesota. Ugly pitch count too

[moonslav59]

Diek really struggling today wow. Loaded bases. 1-0 Minnesota. Ugly pitch count too

 

Sawamura was even worse!

 

Good to see Hill & Whitlock each go 3 strong!

[Larry Cook]

Sawamura was barely 50 percent on throwing strikes. Dude just did not command the strike zone today,

 

Hill impressed me today.

 

I don’t know who winds up being in the bullpen at the start of the season, but I’m beginning to think, they are going to cause us cardiac arrest!

[Deja Doh]

When does Story hit the field?

[notin]

Sawamura was barely 50 percent on throwing strikes. Dude just did not command the strike zone today,

 

Hill impressed me today.

 

I don’t know who winds up being in the bullpen at the start of the season, but I’m beginning to think, they are going to cause us cardiac arrest!

 

 

Guessing a minimum of 11 pitchers to open the season in the bullpen. So Barnes, Brasier, Whitlock, Diekman, Strahm, Davis, D Hernandez, Sawamura, Robles, Valdez and maybe Crawford…

[notin]

Bold bullpen prediction - despite very limited appearances in spring training, this year’s breakout star in the pen will be Jay Groome…