Red Sox trade Hunter Renfroe in trade involving Jackie Bradley Jr

[mvp 78]

Does having a bunch of mediocre talent keep us from giving our youngsters a chance to show what they can do in Boston?

 

No, it's easier to replace mediocre talent with younger guys. I don't think they'll stick with Rich Hill if he falls flat at the expense of Brayan Bello, for example.

Edited December 28, 2021 by mvp 78

[mvp 78]

If the mediocrity is bench depth or platooners (some of the ways it plays on good teams), it can actually protect youngsters, by easing their transition into the bigs, especially if they struggle early on.

 

However, on some bad teams, the best guys are often mediocre, including a lot top prospects... at least for their first few years of on-the-job training.

 

And sometimes "mediocre" players have intanglibles that don't show up on Baseball Reference.

[mvp 78]

Agreed.

 

The second best chance of a prospect winning a ft or platoon slot might be Duran, but batting left makes a platoon role look like a long shot.

 

Maybe Wong or Hernández could beat out Plawecki as the back up catcher.

 

I don't see them rushing Hernandez. We won't see much of him until 2023 when Vaz is gone.

[mvp 78]

The Sox reached an agreement with Plawecki. He’sa done deal and one they can’t get out of. They can’t even release him and only pay 10%.

 

Duran maybe can make the team, but right now his problem isn’t that he’s blocked. With no real 2b starter, the current Sox alignment might be Kike (2b), Bradley (CF) and Verdugo (RF). Duran isn’t really blocked from LF by anyone…

 

Plawecki is a solid backup who is well liked in the clubhouse. Wong doesn't have the upside to move on from Plawecki.

[mvp 78]

All that could happen to anyone, but when people talk about prospects being blocked, rarely are they referring to backup catcher…

 

None of the top Sox prospects are blocked. Casas, Duran, Downs, Bello, Winckowski would all make BOS appearances solely based on their own aptitude.

[oldtimer]

I don't see them rushing Hernandez. We won't see much of him until 2023 when Vaz is gone.

 

Or Vaz could produce acceptable results in 2022 and be with the club in 2023. Hard to predict.

[mvp 78]

Or Vaz could produce acceptable results in 2022 and be with the club in 2023. Hard to predict.

 

I hope he produces well. I just think he'll be hoping for a contract increase and I'm not sure about his price point anymore.

[notin]

None of the top Sox prospects are blocked. Casas, Duran, Downs, Bello, Winckowski would all make BOS appearances solely based on their own aptitude.

 

Also it helps that it’s pretty much impossible to block pitching prospects…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Also it helps that it’s pretty much impossible to block pitching prospects…

 

Unless you're a close contact.

[mvp 78]

Also it helps that it’s pretty much impossible to block pitching prospects…

 

Is this a knock on our catching depth?

[Kimmi]

I'm a little late to this topic, but welcome back JBJ!

 

It will be interesting to see what subsequent OF moves are made once the lockout ends.

 

I hate losing Renfroe, but this move was all about the 2 prospects.

[mvp 78]

I'm a little late to this topic, but welcome back JBJ!

 

It will be interesting to see what subsequent OF moves are made once the lockout ends.

 

I hate losing Renfroe, but this move was all about the 2 prospects.

 

I think Bloom is also betting on JBJ's glove over the short term.

[notin]

Is this a knock on our catching depth?

 

 

We have catching depth? Awesome!

[Nick]

I'm a little late to this topic, but welcome back JBJ!

 

It will be interesting to see what subsequent OF moves are made once the lockout ends.

 

I hate losing Renfroe, but this move was all about the 2 prospects.

 

Playing devil's advocate.....what if we do the Ottavino deal with another club? Trade JBJ for prospects and pay most of his salary?

[moonslav59]

All that could happen to anyone, but when people talk about prospects being blocked, rarely are they referring to backup catcher…

 

With Vaz being a free agent after 2022, the back up catching position is a little more meaningful.

[moonslav59]

Playing devil's advocate.....what if we do the Ottavino deal with another club? Trade JBJ for prospects and pay most of his salary?

 

That’s not what the Ottavino trade was like.

 

The Yanks did pay a tiny part of his contract, but they gave us a prospect to take the rest of his salary of their hands.

 

We’d have to give a prospect with JBJ.

 

It ain’t happening no matter how much some of us wish it could.

[Nick]

That’s not what the Ottavino trade was like.

 

The Yanks did pay a tiny part of his contract, but they gave us a prospect to take the rest of his salary of their hands.

 

We’d have to give a prospect with JBJ.

 

It ain’t happening no matter how much some of us wish it could.

 

You think we have to give prospects, plus JBJ, plus assume his contract? Contract requires two parties receiving something in return. Under your scenario, what is Sox getting?

[Old Red]

You think we have to give prospects, plus JBJ, plus assume his contract? Contract requires two parties receiving something in return. Under your scenario, what is Sox getting?

 

The Sox did not trade Renfroe for JBJ, and take on a bigger salary to trade him off prospects, or not. Only Bloom knows why The JBJ deal was done in the first place.

[Bellhorn04]

The Sox did not trade Renfroe for JBJ, and take on a bigger salary to trade him off prospects, or not. Only Bloom knows why The JBJ deal was done in the first place.

 

No, others have figured out why it was done.

[Old Red]

No, others have figured out why it was done.

 

Prospects? Did someone say prospects? Prospects who might not ever play a meaningful inning for the Red Sox. Jeter Downs, or Wong might not play a meaningful inning either. Prospects are nothing more than that, which may never produce.

[Bellhorn04]

Prospects? Did someone say prospects? Prospects who might not ever play a meaningful inning for the Red Sox. Jeter Downs, or Wong might not play a meaningful inning either. Prospects are nothing more than that, which may never produce.

 

Sure, everyone knows that. You're still better off having more of them than less of them, because some do hit paydirt.

[moonslav59]

You think we have to give prospects, plus JBJ, plus assume his contract? Contract requires two parties receiving something in return. Under your scenario, what is Sox getting?

 

I’m just saying your statement was not similar to Ottavino.

 

To trade JBJ, we’d have to pay a big chunk of his deal which involves a ridiculous buy out after 2022 OR give a prospect with him to get next to nothing back, IMO. (not both)

[moonslav59]

No, others have figured out why it was done.

 

Bloom had to think the prospects out weighed the money anfJBJs defense outweighed Renfroe’s offense.

 

Or something close to that.

 

I’m still scratching my head.

[Bellhorn04]

One other thing that occurred to me about trading Renfroe is that not only does he get a raise from 3.1 million to an estimated 7.6 million, but he'll get another similar raise for 2023, in his 3rd year of arbitration. So assuming you wanted to keep Renfroe the next 2 years, you'd be paying him 18-19 million for the 2 years, and then he's a free agent. So while it was a great contract for 2021, for 2022-23 it's not.

[Bellhorn04]

Bloom had to think the prospects out weighed the money anfJBJs defense outweighed Renfroe’s offense.

 

Or something close to that.

 

I’m still scratching my head.

 

I’m not scratching my head at all. Bloom's approach is a little different, but I think he has an idea what he's doing.

[Hugh2]

That’s not what the Ottavino trade was like.

 

The Yanks did pay a tiny part of his contract, but they gave us a prospect to take the rest of his salary of their hands.

 

We’d have to give a prospect with JBJ.

 

It ain’t happening no matter how much some of us wish it could.

 

You could easily trade JBJ and eat a lot of his salary for prospects, but you're just not getting anything great in return. I just don't understand why you make that trade. JBJ is likely due for a huge rebound, it's almost impossible to be worse than last year. It's still a reasonable opinion that JBJ's rebound is not good enough to be a starting outfielder given his offensive profile but it could easily be enough to be a great defensive 4th outfielder......and that's something the Red Sox really needed this offseason. So I don't know why you trade JBJ, especially if you're going to eat his salary anyways.

[Old Red]

One other thing that occurred to me about trading Renfroe is that not only does he get a raise from 3.1 million to an estimated 7.6 million, but he'll get another similar raise for 2023, in his 3rd year of arbitration. So assuming you wanted to keep Renfroe the next 2 years, you'd be paying him 18-19 million for the 2 years, and then he's a free agent. So while it was a great contract for 2021, for 2022-23 it's not.

 

That’s all fine, and good, but the RedSox would have never paid JBJ the contract that the Brewers paid him, and yet took on that same contract for 2 more years after JBJ hit 160 for a guy who had 96 RBI. Now I know those 96 RBI were a career year, and probably won’t do it again, but at this point it is a head scratcher especially if the prospects don’t turn out.

[Bellhorn04]

That’s all fine, and good, but the RedSox would have never paid JBJ the contract that the Brewers paid him, and yet took on that same contract for 2 more years after JBJ hit 160 for a guy who had 96 RBI. Now I know those 96 RBI were a career year, and probably won’t do it again, but at this point it is a head scratcher especially if the prospects don’t turn out.

 

You left out the improvement in defense. Our defense needed an upgrade somewhere.

[Old Red]

You left out the improvement in defense. Our defense needed an upgrade somewhere.

 

I’m all for improving the D, and I was all for trading Renfroe, but JBJ would not have been on my list to be traded for. I didn’t see it on anyone else’s list either.

[Nick]

One other thing that occurred to me about trading Renfroe is that not only does he get a raise from 3.1 million to an estimated 7.6 million, but he'll get another similar raise for 2023, in his 3rd year of arbitration. So assuming you wanted to keep Renfroe the next 2 years, you'd be paying him 18-19 million for the 2 years, and then he's a free agent. So while it was a great contract for 2021, for 2022-23 it's not.

 

Great point and this is where Moon is off base.

 

It did not cost Sox the entirety of JBJ contract. You have to reduce that liability by debt relief provided by Renfroe's contract, estimated to be $7M for 2022. My guess is Bloom as a former executive of Rays is betting Renfroe reached his peak offensively and his defense was suspect despite having high assist figure in 2021. It would be a typical Rays move, sell high on a player. Don't fall in love with a player.

 

I'm one of those fans that's devoted to Sox. As long as the team is winning I will never complain. Sure it would be nice to retain Betts of the world but free agency is about player movement. Some here should be on suicide watch if we can't retain Devers. Not me. I'm just as anxious to see what type of return we can get for him.

 

When push come to shove, no player is worth $300M contracts.